A possible useful addition to home defense

[Rocketman1]

Originally Posted by armoredman

I also agree, if the situation is dire, go for the gun, flashlight and cell phone. I hope my layers can keep someone at bay long enough for me to utilize the most effective tool sat my disposal, but alternatively, I hope I never ever have to test the theory.

I have never understood the need for a flashlight. If someone breaks in my house in the middle of the night, I sure don't want them to see me, and the way I look at it a flashlight of any kind would just give my position away. In the dark I would have the advantage over the burglar, because I know how to get around my house in the dark, and the burglar doesn’t. I should be able to see him before he sees me, and take him out first.

Some guys even like a light mounted on their gun, and I have never understood that. Can anyone enlighten me here?

[CampingJosh]

Rocketman1;

An average Maglite-type flashlight isn't much good. They don't shine a lot of light, and they are (in my opinion) more likely to give away the position of the person holding it than to illuminate that person's adversary.
I have a couple Maglites. They are OK flashlights. And if I needed a club, that would probably be my choice. But as a flashlight for looking for a bad guy, that's not what I want.

I have several flashlights which are much brighter. Surefire used to sell a lot of flashlights in the 65 lumen range, but increasingly they've moved to 100+ lumens in each light. I think this is a very good choice.
I have a few lights in the 75 to 100 lumen range, and they're not really blinding out past about 15 feet.

However, the light mounted on my AR is 160 lumens. When that shines in your face, you can't really tell quite where it is coming from (especially if, after shining in your face, the light goes off). It just leaves you blind and disoriented. Takes away all your night vision. And leaves you vulnerable.

That's my reason for having a flashlight available for self defense situations. I have a knife and a pistol, too. Wouldn't think that I would need every tool in every situation, but I would like to have every tool available in case it were useful for the particular situation I find myself in.

[armoredman]

I have never understood the need for a flashlight. If someone breaks in my house in the middle of the night, I sure don't want them to see me, and the way I look at it a flashlight of any kind would just give my position away

Easy answer - target identification. If you are the absolutely ONLY living being in your home, and anyone else in there is an intruder, than absolutely, no need to light 'em up, juts open fire on whatever it is.
If you have cats, dogs, children, other family members, you might want to be able to make a positive target identification before you become another tragedy on the 6 o'clock news that the Brady's will wave in the halls of Congress.

[Rocketman1]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Rocketman1;
However, the light mounted on my AR is 160 lumens. When that shines in your face, you can't really tell quite where it is coming from (especially if, after shining in your face, the light goes off). It just leaves you blind and

Ok, I thought that might be the inntention, but I'm not sure if I'm sold on it for my use.

Originally Posted by armoredman

Easy answer - target identification. If you are the absolutely ONLY living being in your home, and anyone else in there is an intruder, than absolutely, no need to light 'em up, just open fire on whatever it is.

If you have cats, dogs, children, other family members, you might want to be able to make a positive target identification before you become another tragedy on the 6 o'clock news that the Brady's will wave in the halls of Congress.

Can't tell you how many times I have thought about this situation, because my wife does get up in the middle of the night on some occasions. This actually happened in Ohio a few years ago, where a man shot and killed his wife thinking she was an intruder, (so he says).

I figure if I wake up thinking someone is in the house, and my wife is not in bed, then I had better be careful. It's just my wife and I so; we each only have one person to keep track of. I can see where this would be much more difficult with more family members.

[carver]

IMHO, any light you choose for home defense should be at a mimimum of 100 lumens, and it should be in strobe mode. A really bright strobe will allow you to see what is, or is not, in your line of fire, but it will disorentate anyone who tries to look into it. I bought one a couple of years ago, only 60 lumens, and you can't look at it at all. My brother bought one that is rated at 120 lumens, and looking into that light is just crazy disorentating! You will get dizzy, and loose your ballance! I know this from looking into his light!

[Country101]

Personnally, I would want a light to be a minimum of 200 lumens. While 100ish might work, I want them blinded if I even get it close to them. Strobe disorients me too much when I am behind it. I'm sure if I used it for a while I would get used to it.

[carver]

Originally Posted by Country101

Personnally, I would want a light to be a minimum of 200 lumens. While 100ish might work, I want them blinded if I even get it close to them. Strobe disorients me too much when I am behind it. I'm sure if I used it for a while I would get used to it.

200 lumens would be best, but they do cost $$! Standing behind the light isn't nearly as bad as standing in front of it!

[aa1911]

I prefer a light, don't want to shoot something I didn't intend to for one but two, it's the flash in their face right before the 'last flash they will ever see in their face', maybe a half second? Plus it allows better shot placement if you're using a handgun especially.

They can see where you are but all they see is a huge bright light, have someone shine one in your face in total darkness to see just how hard it is to actually target someone with a bright light; it's more incapacitating than you might imagine.

[gun runner]

Originally Posted by aa1911

I prefer a light, don't want to shoot something I didn't intend to for one but two, it's the flash in their face right before the 'last flash they will ever see in their face', maybe a half second? Plus it allows better shot placement if you're using a handgun especially.

They can see where you are but all they see is a huge bright light, have someone shine one in your face in total darkness to see just how hard it is to actually target someone with a bright light; it's more incapacitating than you might imagine.

Especially with a LED flashlight.

[graehaven]

So, armoredman, any info or take on my earlier question on the metal plate armor?

[Double D]

Always best to have dogs. Dogs will alarm you of any intruder long before they ever enter your house and they arent likely to bark at your wife when she gets up and walks around so you wont think she is a threat....I have a driveway sensor that beeps when someone is within 100ft of my house and I have security cameras that are pointed at every entrance and I have a fence and an electric gate along with 4 dogs to warn me if they hear anything. I am in the country on 5 acres with 700 acres behind me. I dont worry about much.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Double D

Always best to have dogs. Dogs will alarm you of any intruder long before they ever enter your house and they arent likely to bark at your wife when she gets up and walks around so you wont think she is a threat....I have a driveway sensor that beeps when someone is within 100ft of my house and I have security cameras that are pointed at every entrance and I have a fence and an electric gate along with 4 dogs to warn me if they hear anything. I am in the country on 5 acres with 700 acres behind me. I dont worry about much.

I think that is the key. That is a similar set-up for us. IMO the idea is to be for-warned in advance that someone may intrude. If they are coming through your bedroom door before you have awoke, most likely it's game over for the home owner. We have two dogs next door, and our lab who has full access of the outside. We are well lit up, and we are planning some smart security upgrades that would make it virtually impossible to get in without waking us in advance.

[aa1911]

early warning is the best if the situation you live in affords it! neighbors all have dogs, kinda annoying at times but it's nice to know that anyone will be barked at! (the idiots still bark at us after 7 years, nobody is immune.... they're DUMB)

but the lumen contest is a bit skewed here I think, if you're in total darkness and I hit you with my 60 lument TLR-1, you're not gonna just aim and fire at me, trust me on that! I agree that a 100+ lumens would be better but a good quality light is what's needed. the 120 is plenty I think considering battery life. If your light only lasts 20 minutes on 120 lumen vs. 45 min on 60 lumen and batteries cost $8/each x 2, that's just my .02.....

That being said, I tend to leave a light or two on in the front of the house near the likely entrance and where I sleep is blacked out. That way, there's a 'in place' natural light advantage to me off the bat. A gun light is just a plus for me.

plus as a home owner, you are dialed into the doorway/threat. Bad guy has likely no clue what the layout of the home is or where you're at. that couple seconds will net you a huge advantage. just don't count on it 100%. Stack the odds in your favor!

people talk about their 100rd mag clearing their hallways, but truth be told, guns jam! what'r'ya gonna do when it jams? redundancy is paramount.

but another tangent....

[targetacqmgt]

ok how about an infared night scope?? or are they prohibitively expensive??

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by gun runner

Especially with a LED flashlight.

i agree.. those superbrite led lights.. ina dark room.. they are blinding... especially if the bad guy has been walking thru a dark house, and then that pops on. likely they will not be able to make target for seconds or more.. while you CAN..

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

I think that is the key. That is a similar set-up for us. IMO the idea is to be for-warned in advance that someone may intrude. If they are coming through your bedroom door before you have awoke, most likely it's game over for the home owner. We have two dogs next door, and our lab who has full access of the outside. We are well lit up, and we are planning some smart security upgrades that would make it virtually impossible to get in without waking us in advance.

one thing you can do to give yourself a few seconds of prep time is make them take longer to breech your bedroom door.

we instaleld an exterior solid core door as our bedroom door.. complete with deadbolt and kick 'resistant' jamb. it's not one of those wimpy hollow doors tht a shoulder or foot will blow off the hinges. if someone wants in.. they will have to really get a good running shoulder bump a few times. of course a breecher tool or sledge hammer will pop it.. but hopefully a dog will have woke me up in time to reach over and grab the thugstopper (R) beside my bed..

[Country101]

On the flashlight issue, you need one that puts enough light in a big enough area as well. While anything is better than nothing, most lights dont do good enough for me. Granted, I dont have a light like I am talking about yet..... To really blind somebody or disorient them with a lower powered light, you have to get it aimed at thier eyes before they can react. Most flashlights are so narrowly focused that if it is not directly in thier eyes, it doesnt do a good enough job for me. While you may need to id your target, they may not care who thier target is or if they kill, so all they have to do is point and shoot. They dont have to conform to the same rules that we do. They are criminals. It's spray some lead and deal with the consequences later.

I have a small $20 light that puts out 140 lumens and runs on 3 AAA batteries that I use at the moment. I have one in my truck, nightstand, and hunting bag. For what it is, it is great, but it's not what I want. Plus, it's a little too small. It's only about 3.5 inches long. Another inch would be good. (no comments from the peanut gallery.......) It would be handy with a crenallated bezel too. I've always wanted one of those. They are good for strikes as well as being able to set them down and have a little area light if you need it.

Soundguy, so you bolt your bedroom door every night?

[carver]

Originally Posted by Double D

Always best to have dogs. Dogs will alarm you of any intruder long before they ever enter your house and they arent likely to bark at your wife when she gets up and walks around so you wont think she is a threat....I have a driveway sensor that beeps when someone is within 100ft of my house and I have security cameras that are pointed at every entrance and I have a fence and an electric gate along with 4 dogs to warn me if they hear anything. I am in the country on 5 acres with 700 acres behind me. I dont worry about much.

Same here dogs in the yard, dogs in the house. Behind me (south) there is, I don't know how many acres, but it's a mile to the nearest house. Used to be woods, now it's a cut over. No body will be coming thru there! To the west of me it's a mile to the school, and no one between me, and the school.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Country101

Soundguy, so you bolt your bedroom door every night?

you better believe it. it's wasted money and reduced safety if I don't.

the last one of us in.. me or the wife.. we lock the usless lil knob spinner than throw the deadbolt. sure..the door CAN be breached.. but it will make noise and take just a hair more time.. betweenthat and the furry burglar alarms.. we can hove our thugstoppers drawn and ready to act upon the entryway being breached. if it sound slike the door is gonna give immediatly.. i plan on going for the 38 thugstopper. If I have 1 extra second I'll reach up instead for the pumpaction thugdissipator.

[ozo]

It's always good to have another tool

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Only about 310 million total people in the US. There aren't ten billion people in the world, let alone tens of billions in our country.

Yeah, everyone needs to pay taxes, and we need to cut spending by about 2/3. But arguments that are so factually ignorant don't help the cause.



Zimbabwe. They use US dollars as currency now because no one will trust currency their government produces. Just moved from one fiat currency to another.
More evidence that those pushing gold as the only thing worth anything in an economic collapse don't really know what they're talking about.

sorry about that should have been MILLIONS of beople but was thinking about BILLIONS of tax dollars lost.

[armoredman]

Sorry Greahaven, this one?

What about ricochet, and the bullet traveling up into your head, or down into an appendage. I've always understood metal armor to be inferior to ceramic plates due to the potential of ricochet. How do these mitigate that risk, or don't they?

The manufacturer said the design of the carrier itself mitigates splash, as the bullets that hit steel tend to disintegrate. It has been suggested with some validity that a separate spall "carrier" for the plate itself, made of a few layers of Kevlar, would be a good idea, and I don't think that's a bad idea at all.
I do have to say the option of receiving some spall injuries as opposed to getting shot in the chest makes me lean towards the former for now.

[soundguy]

an off angle shot might send more than spall towards a face or extremity.. both could be lethal... having a balistic fabric carrier would IMHO be very prudent.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by armoredman

Sorry Greahaven, this one?

The manufacturer said the design of the carrier itself mitigates splash, as the bullets that hit steel tend to disintegrate. It has been suggested with some validity that a separate spall "carrier" for the plate itself, made of a few layers of Kevlar, would be a good idea, and I don't think that's a bad idea at all.
I do have to say the option of receiving some spall injuries as opposed to getting shot in the chest makes me lean towards the former for now.

Yes, that's the one. Does the AR500 company offer such an animal?

Otherwise, to get level III or IV protection with rifle plates (ceramic), it's in the $1400 range. (from another company).

[FreeWill]

Well well it comes to flashlights I got an Eagle Tac that puts out 750 lumens; even with a Diffuser Filter I still get the blinding effect.