ID help - The Firearms Forum

texasarch · 03-10-2011, 12:14 PM

This pistol was recently recovered by the Belize Department of Archaeology they have asked my assistance in identifying it - time period, make, etc.
Belize was formerly British Honduras so I am assuming the pistol is British. The only markings on the gun say "Torp" Any help you can provide is deeply appreciated. If you need additional pics I can post them.

Alpo · 03-10-2011, 12:20 PM

It appears to be a Flobert parlor pistol. German, from the proof marks.

Buffalochip · 03-10-2011, 07:45 PM

Any idea what caliber it is? If it is a .22, I'm thinking it might be an old parlor pistol--used for shooting targets with CB caps in what would have been the living room in the late 1800s. Try doing that today...

Alpo · 03-10-2011, 07:55 PM

Probably either 22 BB cap, or 6mm Flobert.

Brisk44 · 03-10-2011, 08:35 PM

beats me but it's neat!

the Riddick · 03-11-2011, 01:20 AM

Can you post pictures looking inside the barrel? And the hammer?? Does it have a breech?

RJay · 03-11-2011, 06:29 PM

If you google Flobert you will find information galore. Made by the boat load late 1880's to the 1930's. Uses a small light power . 22 cartridge ( CB Caps ). Also made in other calibers but yours looks to be . 22. Used for indoor target practice and in taverns to bet for drinks. There is no way to pin a date down, they were also made by a number of makers. most of them Belgium but also Spain and France. They could also be used as a garden gun against birds and gophers.

grcsat · 03-12-2011, 12:17 AM

Yep thats a flobert pistol.

This is what it should look like in working condition

Parlorpistol · 08-27-2012, 10:50 PM

The markings are exact on a parlor pistol I have been trying to find info on.
Do you know exact specs on the 2 crowns and U? I have been researching and have found its german and its a second inspection mark, but mine has 78 stamped on it and no other marks. I have taken the wooden grips off and there is nothing.
TO conclude I am trying to find info from anyone. Please let me know if anyone has. THANKS!

Bill DeShivs · 08-28-2012, 12:19 AM

Not exactly a Flobert. Floberts used the hammer as the breech block. This is a parlor pistol, but it uses a cannon breech.

rhmc24 · 08-30-2012, 06:11 AM

Bill D is right. True Floberts have a very heavy hammer with the firing pin on it that serves to close the breech against the very low power cartridge it is intended to use.

45Auto · 09-02-2012, 09:06 PM

If you can locate a copy of the 1911 Alfa arms and sporting goods catalog you will see many examples of these pistols for sale back then.

Considering the proof marks and historical data, your pistol would have been made in Germany from around 1893 to 1914.

okie headhunter · 09-13-2012, 09:58 PM

very cool

Jim K · 09-14-2012, 12:09 PM

Parlorpistol, the two crowns and U are German proof marks. They are actually two proof marks - one crown alone is the proof for revolvers, muzzle loading pistols and single shot pistols; the crown/U is the final and definitive proof for arms proved in the finished state. Those marks were discontinued in 1939.

Jim

bartswt · 10-03-2012, 08:01 AM

It appears I have the same parlor pistol with the double crown and a U on it. This gun also has the serial #1 on the breech lock. I wasn't sure if that was on every gun made or a unique serial #. It sounds like it is a unique #. Anyone confident on the value of these pistols?

Jim K · 10-03-2012, 03:17 PM

The numbers on those guns are usually assembly numbers. The guns were fitted together, the parts numbered, and then the guns taken apart for final finishing. The numbers, called assembly numbers or lot numbers, were used to make sure the fitted parts got back together again. The "1" is simply a number; it does not indicate the first of anything except that batch and adds no value. Those guns have very little value, usually under $75 unless in like new condition. I saw an engraved one with an ivory grip with a price tag of $200 and no takers.

Jim

03-10-2011, 12:20 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: ID help It appears to be a Flobert parlor pistol. German, from the proof marks. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-10-2011, 07:45 PM	#3
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Re: ID help Any idea what caliber it is? If it is a .22, I'm thinking it might be an old parlor pistol--used for shooting targets with CB caps in what would have been the living room in the late 1800s. Try doing that today...

03-10-2011, 07:55 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: ID help Probably either 22 BB cap, or 6mm Flobert. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-10-2011, 08:35 PM	#5
Brisk44 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,747	Re: ID help beats me but it's neat!

03-11-2011, 01:20 AM	#6
the Riddick Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Galloway,Ohio Posts: 69	Re: ID help Can you post pictures looking inside the barrel? And the hammer?? Does it have a breech?

03-10-2011, 12:14 PM	#1
texasarch Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2	ID help This pistol was recently recovered by the Belize Department of Archaeology they have asked my assistance in identifying it - time period, make, etc. Belize was formerly British Honduras so I am assuming the pistol is British. The only markings on the gun say "Torp" Any help you can provide is deeply appreciated. If you need additional pics I can post them. Attached Images -->

03-11-2011, 06:29 PM	#7
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,487	Re: ID help If you google Flobert you will find information galore. Made by the boat load late 1880's to the 1930's. Uses a small light power . 22 cartridge ( CB Caps ). Also made in other calibers but yours looks to be . 22. Used for indoor target practice and in taverns to bet for drinks. There is no way to pin a date down, they were also made by a number of makers. most of them Belgium but also Spain and France. They could also be used as a garden gun against birds and gophers. __________________ RonJames

03-12-2011, 12:17 AM	#8
grcsat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: far,far,North Posts: 377	Re: ID help Yep thats a flobert pistol. This is what it should look like in working condition Attached Images

08-27-2012, 10:50 PM	#9
Parlorpistol Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: OREGON Posts: 3	Re: ID help The markings are exact on a parlor pistol I have been trying to find info on. Do you know exact specs on the 2 crowns and U? I have been researching and have found its german and its a second inspection mark, but mine has 78 stamped on it and no other marks. I have taken the wooden grips off and there is nothing. TO conclude I am trying to find info from anyone. Please let me know if anyone has. THANKS!

08-28-2012, 12:19 AM	#10
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,470	Re: ID help Not exactly a Flobert. Floberts used the hammer as the breech block. This is a parlor pistol, but it uses a cannon breech. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

08-30-2012, 06:11 AM	#11
rhmc24 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Ardmore, OK Posts: 527	Re: ID help Bill D is right. True Floberts have a very heavy hammer with the firing pin on it that serves to close the breech against the very low power cartridge it is intended to use. Last edited by rhmc24; 08-30-2012 at 09:03 AM.. Reason: typo

09-02-2012, 09:06 PM	#12
45Auto Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,121	Re: ID help If you can locate a copy of the 1911 Alfa arms and sporting goods catalog you will see many examples of these pistols for sale back then. Considering the proof marks and historical data, your pistol would have been made in Germany from around 1893 to 1914.

09-13-2012, 09:58 PM	#13
okie headhunter Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: tulsa ok Posts: 44	Re: ID help very cool

09-14-2012, 12:09 PM	#14
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: ID help Parlorpistol, the two crowns and U are German proof marks. They are actually two proof marks - one crown alone is the proof for revolvers, muzzle loading pistols and single shot pistols; the crown/U is the final and definitive proof for arms proved in the finished state. Those marks were discontinued in 1939. Jim

10-03-2012, 08:01 AM	#15
bartswt Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 1	Re: ID help It appears I have the same parlor pistol with the double crown and a U on it. This gun also has the serial #1 on the breech lock. I wasn't sure if that was on every gun made or a unique serial #. It sounds like it is a unique #. Anyone confident on the value of these pistols?

10-03-2012, 03:17 PM	#16
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: ID help The numbers on those guns are usually assembly numbers. The guns were fitted together, the parts numbered, and then the guns taken apart for final finishing. The numbers, called assembly numbers or lot numbers, were used to make sure the fitted parts got back together again. The "1" is simply a number; it does not indicate the first of anything except that batch and adds no value. Those guns have very little value, usually under $75 unless in like new condition. I saw an engraved one with an ivory grip with a price tag of $200 and no takers. Jim