question 30-06 ammo military grade - The Firearms Forum

targetacqmgt · 09-26-2012, 02:15 AM

The question here is does military surplus 30-06 ammo "fit and fire safely" in a civilian 30-06????

My intent is to fire it out of a Rossi wizard 30-06

B27 · 09-26-2012, 05:48 AM

Yes.

This cartridge can be referred to as....

.30-06

.30 Cal. (military nomenclature)

Or- M2 (this being the 150 gr. milspec .30-06)

They are all safe to fire in commercial .30-06 rifles.

But, a great deal of milsurp .30-06 is corrosive. So take the proper measures after firing.

targetacqmgt · 09-26-2012, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B27

Yes.

This cartridge can be referred to as....

.30-06

.30 Cal. (military nomenclature)

Or- M2 (this being the 150 gr. milspec .30-06)

They are all safe to fire in commercial .30-06 rifles.

But, a great deal of milsurp .30-06 is corrosive. So take the proper measures after firing.

Thanks I have a couple of mosins so I know I must clean throughly after firing corrosive ammo. Most of what I will buy will go into storage.

jack404 · 09-26-2012, 08:46 AM

good thinkin

Jim K · 09-26-2012, 10:20 AM

Mil surp .30-'06 is getting scarce as it was being phased out in the U.S. as early as 1957. If you plan on long term storage, make sure the age. I have fired ammo that was 100+ years old and most fired, but I wouldn't store anything over about 10 years old and preferably new ammo. Unless you rotate your store, it will just get older and older. Starting with ammo that is already 60 years old is not a good idea.

Jim

jack404 · 09-26-2012, 10:29 AM

see i got a heap of 1916 left but getting through it , then theres the 1917 and 1919 stuff

( all .303 ball ) , i do sell some and its still very good ammo ( if the case was intact , i've had a few opened and corroded lots and ended up tossed the lot each time )

and i've a pile of 1992 30-06 ( malaysian navy ammo ) but i'll get through that before the 1917 stuff

Oldeyes · 09-26-2012, 01:36 PM

I was surprised to find a lot of the surplus WWI .30-06 ball ammo loaded with a bundle of long threads of a stick cordite type propellent which extended from the back of the bullet back to the primer. We lit some of the cordite threads in an ash tray and it burned almost like a small bit of C4. The 90 year old stick propellent looked strange as all get out, but it worked just fine in our range shooting applications. Most surprising.

targetacqmgt · 09-26-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldeyes

I was surprised to find a lot of the surplus WWI .30-06 ball ammo loaded with a bundle of long threads of a stick cordite type propellent which extended from the back of the bullet back to the primer. We lit some of the cordite threads in an ash tray and it burned almost like a small bit of C4. The 90 year old stick propellent looked strange as all get out, but it worked just fine in our range shooting applications. Most surprising.

That is right interesting care to give country of origin and date of mfg??

targetacqmgt · 09-26-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack404

see i got a heap of 1916 left but getting through it , then theres the 1917 and 1919 stuff

( all .303 ball ) , i do sell some and its still very good ammo ( if the case was intact , i've had a few opened and corroded lots and ended up tossed the lot each time )

and i've a pile of 1992 30-06 ( malaysian navy ammo ) but i'll get through that before the 1917 stuff

Yeah Jack the mil surp that is fairly new I think? is coming from places like malaysia. Our Civilian Marksmanship Program does not have much milsurp left and it goes fast. last time I looked for A CMP 1917 springfield - nada nyet rifles.

targetacqmgt · 09-26-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

Mil surp .30-'06 is getting scarce as it was being phased out in the U.S. as early as 1957. If you plan on long term storage, make sure the age. I have fired ammo that was 100+ years old and most fired, but I wouldn't store anything over about 10 years old and preferably new ammo. Unless you rotate your store, it will just get older and older. Starting with ammo that is already 60 years old is not a good idea.

Jim

Good points, I have a Rossi wizard and would NOT like to have an old round blowup heating the barrel up with previous rounds.

I had a Mk19 40mm rd denonate in the feed tray in Nam-propellant charge only. NOT an experience I would want to repeat.

soundguy · 09-26-2012, 02:50 PM

brit ammo commonly used cordite.. I've seen plenty of 303 cordite loaded ammo.

as for 30-06.... i have and have seen lots of 60's ? era greek milsurp..

have heard horror stories about some 30-06.. perhaps korean? that was have case head separations like crazy.. anyone else hear about this?

Jim K · 09-26-2012, 06:38 PM

All I know is that the U.S. never used cordite, but .30-'06 ammo made elsewhere might have been loaded with it.

The concern with old ammo is not that it is going to blow up the gun, it is that it won't fire. If the S really does HTF, you don't want ammo that is dead on arrival. Plus, why stock up on corrosive primed ammo when non-corrosive is available. But the old corrosive primers were pretty stable, which is why they survived through WWII.

Jim

B27 · 09-27-2012, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soundguy

... i have and have seen lots of 60's ? era greek milsurp..

have heard horror stories about some 30-06.. perhaps korean? that was have case head separations like crazy.. anyone else hear about this?

Nope on the Korean case ruptures....but my buddy loaned me his repro 1903A4and that rascal just eats up the old Greek M2 on 5 round strippers in bandoleers.

soundguy · 09-27-2012, 06:30 AM

i have a few hundred in greek milsurp in the SHTF cave, and have another couple hundred empties from said greek that I've prepped and have been reloading.

targetacqmgt · 09-27-2012, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

All I know is that the U.S. never used cordite, but .30-'06 ammo made elsewhere might have been loaded with it.

The concern with old ammo is not that it is going to blow up the gun, it is that it won't fire. If the S really does HTF, you don't want ammo that is dead on arrival. Plus, why stock up on corrosive primed ammo when non-corrosive is available. But the old corrosive primers were pretty stable, which is why they survived through WWII.

Jim

Point taken thanks Jim

3/2 STA SS · 09-28-2012, 03:36 PM

I have .30-06 that I know is well over 60-70 years old and fires great...

Jim K · 09-28-2012, 04:38 PM

Non-corrosive primers came into general use in the early to mid-1930's and there was a lot of pressure on the military to adopt them, especially since the semi-auto rifle then coming into production would benefit from them. Army Ordnance resisted (and took a lot of heat), claiming that the stability of the new primers had not been proven. With the need to store millions of rounds of ammunition for indefinite periods in varying climates, the Army felt it could not authorize use of untried primers. The results were that the new M1 rifle had a gas cylinder and piston head made of stainless steel (then a rare and expensive material), and that millions of WWII GI's had to clean their rifles.

The M1 carbine was the exception. The designer (Williams) and first manufacturer (Winchester) told the Army that unless non-corrosive primers were used, the carbine would rapidly turn into a large paperweight. The Army made an exception, since they considered the carbine a wartime expedient and not a "real" battle rifle.

But those Ordnance folks were right. Not long ago I decided to shoot up some 8mm Mauser ammo made in Canada in 1940 for the British (it was used in their tank machineguns) that had non-corrosive primers. All of it either had hang fires or didn't fire at all. But .30-'06 GI ammo from the same period, loaded with the old FA-70 corrosive primers, fired every time.

More recent non-corrosive primers appear to be very stable, but those early mixtures just weren't.

Jim

targetacqmgt · 09-29-2012, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

Mil surp .30-'06 is getting scarce as it was being phased out in the U.S. as early as 1957. If you plan on long term storage, make sure the age. I have fired ammo that was 100+ years old and most fired, but I wouldn't store anything over about 10 years old and preferably new ammo. Unless you rotate your store, it will just get older and older. Starting with ammo that is already 60 years old is not a good idea.

Jim

Revisiting storage times: My intention is to rotate ammo and store for no longer than 5 years (which is IMO the time when it all falls apart and all my ammo will be needed).

Jim K · 09-29-2012, 09:37 PM

I sincerely hope you are wrong and it never "all falls apart."

Jim

soundguy · 09-29-2012, 09:46 PM

the writing is on the wall and it's already falling apart!

targetacqmgt · 10-01-2012, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim K

I sincerely hope you are wrong and it never "all falls apart."

Jim

My hope and pray, but I feel we are already on a slippery slope downward.

bluesea112 · 10-03-2012, 10:04 PM

My grandfather passed me down a full case of World War 2 Match 30-06. The bullet weight was 177gr. They were in Gerand clips. The only bad thing was that back then the primers were corrosive. Anytime I shot them I had to run my rifle under hot water to wash it out. Kind of pain.

Sorry, I got a little off topic. To answer your question, yes, military and civilian 30-06 is identical.

bluesea112 · 10-03-2012, 10:11 PM

We have been on a slipper slope downwards ever since the Democrats passed the Gun Control Act in 1968. It is just a matter of time. We fight and fight to keep our rights, but every once in a while they get another control law passed. Once a law is passed, it never goes away. Eventually they have complete control and you are stripped of your rights. Obama just wants too speed that along.

09-26-2012, 02:15 AM	#1
targetacqmgt Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 494	question 30-06 ammo military grade The question here is does military surplus 30-06 ammo "fit and fire safely" in a civilian 30-06???? My intent is to fire it out of a Rossi wizard 30-06 -->

09-26-2012, 05:48 AM	#2
B27 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 415	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade Yes. This cartridge can be referred to as.... .30-06 .30 Cal. (military nomenclature) Or- M2 (this being the 150 gr. milspec .30-06) They are all safe to fire in commercial .30-06 rifles. But, a great deal of milsurp .30-06 is corrosive. So take the proper measures after firing. __________________ "Do not stand beside the road and argue with a fool...lest others in passing take you also for a fool." Last edited by B27; 09-26-2012 at 05:50 AM..

09-26-2012, 08:46 AM	#4
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade good thinkin

09-26-2012, 10:20 AM	#5
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade Mil surp .30-'06 is getting scarce as it was being phased out in the U.S. as early as 1957. If you plan on long term storage, make sure the age. I have fired ammo that was 100+ years old and most fired, but I wouldn't store anything over about 10 years old and preferably new ammo. Unless you rotate your store, it will just get older and older. Starting with ammo that is already 60 years old is not a good idea. Jim

09-26-2012, 10:29 AM	#6
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade see i got a heap of 1916 left but getting through it , then theres the 1917 and 1919 stuff ( all .303 ball ) , i do sell some and its still very good ammo ( if the case was intact , i've had a few opened and corroded lots and ended up tossed the lot each time ) and i've a pile of 1992 30-06 ( malaysian navy ammo ) but i'll get through that before the 1917 stuff

09-26-2012, 01:36 PM	#7
Oldeyes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 218	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade I was surprised to find a lot of the surplus WWI .30-06 ball ammo loaded with a bundle of long threads of a stick cordite type propellent which extended from the back of the bullet back to the primer. We lit some of the cordite threads in an ash tray and it burned almost like a small bit of C4. The 90 year old stick propellent looked strange as all get out, but it worked just fine in our range shooting applications. Most surprising.

09-26-2012, 02:50 PM	#11
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,463	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade brit ammo commonly used cordite.. I've seen plenty of 303 cordite loaded ammo. as for 30-06.... i have and have seen lots of 60's ? era greek milsurp.. have heard horror stories about some 30-06.. perhaps korean? that was have case head separations like crazy.. anyone else hear about this?

09-26-2012, 06:38 PM	#12
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade All I know is that the U.S. never used cordite, but .30-'06 ammo made elsewhere might have been loaded with it. The concern with old ammo is not that it is going to blow up the gun, it is that it won't fire. If the S really does HTF, you don't want ammo that is dead on arrival. Plus, why stock up on corrosive primed ammo when non-corrosive is available. But the old corrosive primers were pretty stable, which is why they survived through WWII. Jim

09-27-2012, 06:30 AM	#14
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,463	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade i have a few hundred in greek milsurp in the SHTF cave, and have another couple hundred empties from said greek that I've prepped and have been reloading.

09-28-2012, 03:36 PM	#16
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,443	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade I have .30-06 that I know is well over 60-70 years old and fires great... __________________ MORS DE CONTACTUS-DEATH ON CONTACT

09-28-2012, 04:38 PM	#17
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade Non-corrosive primers came into general use in the early to mid-1930's and there was a lot of pressure on the military to adopt them, especially since the semi-auto rifle then coming into production would benefit from them. Army Ordnance resisted (and took a lot of heat), claiming that the stability of the new primers had not been proven. With the need to store millions of rounds of ammunition for indefinite periods in varying climates, the Army felt it could not authorize use of untried primers. The results were that the new M1 rifle had a gas cylinder and piston head made of stainless steel (then a rare and expensive material), and that millions of WWII GI's had to clean their rifles. The M1 carbine was the exception. The designer (Williams) and first manufacturer (Winchester) told the Army that unless non-corrosive primers were used, the carbine would rapidly turn into a large paperweight. The Army made an exception, since they considered the carbine a wartime expedient and not a "real" battle rifle. But those Ordnance folks were right. Not long ago I decided to shoot up some 8mm Mauser ammo made in Canada in 1940 for the British (it was used in their tank machineguns) that had non-corrosive primers. All of it either had hang fires or didn't fire at all. But .30-'06 GI ammo from the same period, loaded with the old FA-70 corrosive primers, fired every time. More recent non-corrosive primers appear to be very stable, but those early mixtures just weren't. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 09-28-2012 at 04:40 PM..

09-29-2012, 09:37 PM	#19
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade I sincerely hope you are wrong and it never "all falls apart." Jim

09-29-2012, 09:46 PM	#20
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,463	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade the writing is on the wall and it's already falling apart!

10-03-2012, 10:04 PM	#22
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade My grandfather passed me down a full case of World War 2 Match 30-06. The bullet weight was 177gr. They were in Gerand clips. The only bad thing was that back then the primers were corrosive. Anytime I shot them I had to run my rifle under hot water to wash it out. Kind of pain. Sorry, I got a little off topic. To answer your question, yes, military and civilian 30-06 is identical. Last edited by bluesea112; 10-03-2012 at 10:06 PM..

10-03-2012, 10:11 PM	#23
bluesea112 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: West, TX Contributor Posts: 1,257	Re: question 30-06 ammo military grade We have been on a slipper slope downwards ever since the Democrats passed the Gun Control Act in 1968. It is just a matter of time. We fight and fight to keep our rights, but every once in a while they get another control law passed. Once a law is passed, it never goes away. Eventually they have complete control and you are stripped of your rights. Obama just wants too speed that along.