Henry Elwell Dbl BBL Shotgun Value

[Larry Ash]

I read that there were only three guns made that had the name Henry Elwell engraved on both side plates and I am trying to determine if this is true and If I own one of them.

This gun has ornate engaving on both side plates, the top and bottom and on the butt plate. The side plate says Henry Elwell. The top plate of the barrel has engraving that I can partiall read: "Real Time (London?) blank blank"

The barrel is 29" long, has no rust, and still has the original wood packer rod with a screw on the end. The back of the butt looks like it was broken at one time and was mended (a long time ago).

[hrf]

Welcome to TFF.

Photos would better confirm what you have, but it's probably a percussion double barrel.

Boothroyd lists Henry Elwell as a gunmaker in Birmingham 1838-1857, with added remark: "Marked guns London."

I don't know how anyone could possibly determine that only three guns had his name on the locks, but rarity does not necessarily mean higher value, and such guns have moderate collector interest.

If you can post a clear photo of the barrel rib marking, perhaps we can determine what it is that looks like "Real Time"

[ampaterry]

There was also a Henry Elwell that was a lock maker -

Check this thread on an extremely fine firearms forum.
TFF!!

[Larry Ash]

Thanks for the quick info. I haven't figured out how to post pictures yet. Is there an e-mail I can send them to?

[hrf]

Originally Posted by Larry Ash

Thanks for the quick info. I haven't figured out how to post pictures yet. Is there an e-mail I can send them to?

To post photos, click on the Go Advanced tab below the reply screen, then click on the paper clip next to the smiley face, and Browse to find and Upload your photo or photos. (Don’t forget to click Submit Reply after uploading)

[Jim K]

I think the Elwell in question was a lockmaker in Seneca County, in North Central Ohio. Apparently his operation was akin to a factory, as his locks turn up very often on percussion rifles of the c. 1850's. The locks are usually marked "H. Elwell Warranted" and have an engraving of a hunting dog.

Jim

[RJay]

I found two H. Elwell's, the American lock maker, and the other Henry Elwell is listed as a Birmingham gun maker 1838-1857, who marked his guns London. I did read something about three seemingly rare Elwell rifles, but so little information, I don't know if they were referring to the lock maker or the shotgun maker. I did find most of the English Elwell's shotguns were listed in the low hundreds. They did not seem to be held in the same regard as the finer English gun makers

[Larry Ash]

Attached are pics of the side and bottom plates. Hope this helps to identify the shotgun.

Once again, thanks for all of the helpful replies!
Larry

[Larry Ash]

Here is another picture of the engraving on the top plate of the barrel.

It reads "real Time (London?) _____ ______ cant make out the last two words.
Larry

[Jim K]

I think it is safe to say that those locks are not the product of the Ohio lock maker. The gun is almost certainly English and Henry Elwell was the maker of the gun, not just of the locks. The marking on the rib is probably the retailer.

The right hand hammer is a replacement.

Jim

[Larry Ash]

Thanks Jim
It it worth anything or is it just a "wall hanger"?
Thanks again,
Larry

[Jim K]

I don't track shotgun values, and especially English guns, so I don't feel qualified to evaluate that gun. I will say it is of quite good quality, though not a "best" grade gun. The engraving is of good quality but the woodwork is plain and utilitarian.

I think Jack has a better handle on the English guns, and he may have a better idea. You can also use Google to check for sales of Henry Elwell guns and see what they bring. Spell out "Henry Elwell shotgun", otherwise you will be swamped by information on the American Elwell.

Jim

[RJay]

To expand on my earlier post, Since the American Elwell is not listed in my Sharps book of American Rifles I would also say than any Long arms were made in the mother country

[Larry Ash]

Thanks Ron for the additional information.

Since nobody really has a handle on the Henry Elwell shotguns or their value, is it because there were only a FEW made?

I think it was Jim who thought Jack could better appraise the value, but I have no way to contact him. Any Ideas?

Larry

[RJay]

Jack404 is one of the forum moderators, You can PM him ( private message ). He deals with quite a bit of antique British arms.

[hrf]

Larry, except for those by a few renowned makers, there's little collector interest in percussion shotguns in USA, and value would be as a nice decorator's wall hanger, or possibly to a black powder shooter who wanted to fix it up.

It has a few issues, eg. mismatched hammers and the repair to stock you mentioned, and looks like left nipple probably missing or broken off as hammer is too far forward. My WAG of value it would bring at an auction would be $200 plus or minus.

[Larry Ash]

Thank you to all who took their time to help me with the identification and value of this old shotgun. It helped my knowledge of the gun and its maker.
Larry

[Jim K]

Hi, RJay,

I may be wrong, but I think the American Elwell was a lockmaker and never made complete rifles, so he might not be listed in a book of gun makers. On the other hand, I have not seen locks that appeared to be of the quality seen in the English Elwell's guns. In other words, I have no doubt they were different people, in different countries.

Jim