Does anyone else

[CCHolderinMaine]

Originally Posted by firefighter1635

Al Gore said O's lack of energy was due to flying into Denver just two hours prior to the debate, atributing it to the altitude.....How could anyone say something so ******* crazy as that and expect people to believe it?

Because he's been getting away with it for years, and gotten rich doing it! The biggest problem the US faces today is an utterly corrupt press.

[mjpchief]

Whoever Johnson is he doesn't stand a chance of getting elected and you know it. A vote for Johnson will be a vote to put dipwad back in office. Proven fact. Remember the other big eared wonder.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by mjpchief

A vote for Johnson will be a vote to put dipwad back in office. Proven fact. Remember the other big eared wonder.

WRONG!!

Gary Johnson is a Libertarian, not a Reform Party candidate. The Reform Party was another conservative party like the Republican Party. They stole voters almost exclusively from the Republicans.

The Libertarian Party focuses on freedom. Their focus on personal freedoms (legalized drug use, marry whoever you want, etc.) draws as many from the Democrats as their focus on economic freedoms draws from the Republicans.

On a only-slightly-related note:

We seem to have a lot of members here complaining that conservative people would vote for anything other than the big government Republican Party, but nobody seems to be trying to steal voters away from the Democratic Party.

Perhaps the Republican Party's best bet for consistent election success would be to make sure a candidate with a humorous name (something like "Ironman Schlong") were listed on the ballot as a candidate for the "Free Weed and Beer Party" in all the swing states. No one who would vote Republican would vote for something stupid like that, but I can definitely see three or four percent of Democrat voters marking that name on their ballots. And in a lot of states, that would be all the difference.
No campaigning necessary; just get the requisite signatures to put that on the ballot and let the idiots waste their votes.

[Old Grump]

Democrats still have lip service support from all the young voters who put them in office but those voters feel disenfranchised when they don't see the changes they were promised. Example is support for Obama has gone up in the Hispanic bloc but voter excitement which relates to how many will actually go vote for him is not there. The Democratic powers shot themselves in their foot and took away their own supporters by putting a unqualified lightweight in office. He never had a chance to follow through on his promises not because of opposition but because he is unqualified for the office, is not an executive and is not a leader.

Bow to Arabian dictators, hug the queen and give her a cop[y of his speeches, apologizes to every leader who would allow him in their country for everything this nation has done or been perceived to have done by the liberal weeping willies for the last 200+ years. This is a world leader???

Point - Nobel Peace prize awarded him not because he earned it but because he ran on the typical Democratic anti-war platform and then did not follow through. There was a surge not a pull back and Gitmo is still running and he is trying to push the laws so more people can qualify as terrorists. People like a lot of us on this forum, Christians, Gun owners and 2 A supporters, Conservatives, and last but certainly not least us men and women who are veterans, all of us bad medicine in his book.

He needs to go but the people that put him there need to go even worse and that means most of the liberal Democrats and l;liberal to moderate Republicans. A 10% change over in congress would really help but a 25-40% change over would be a flipping miracle and we really could use a miracle.

[Gun Geezer]

It would take more than a miracle to get the dead air out of Congress. We simply keep replacing garbage with more garbage. I'm far more concerned with who sits in Congress than I am with who lives in the White House because a proper Congress would restrain a POTUS who has delusions of grandeur instead of kissing up to him as in the case of Obozo.

[therewolf]

feelin' stronger every day...

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

My comment was written as is for those of us on the forum who really do follow the race, the issues and the candidates. If anybody hasn't heard about Johnson by now its because they don't give a tinkers dam about who is running or what they stand for unless it's on their local news. The news people cover the candidates that spend money on TV ads and that is their qualification for office.

I don't suppose you have figured out yet that if they don't buy adds people won't know who they are have ya? Except from YOU, I've never heard of the guy. Why should I vote for him? He sure as hell hasn't told me. I don't consider myself a Libertarian, so why in the flying F word would I go to his site. Appeal to me. Please for the love of all things holy, appeal to me. Tell me how he is letting us know he's running. because I've seen nothing from him.

And for the record, I don't watch the news, local or otherwise. I get my info off the net. From multiple sources because I don't trust just one. AND I"VE NEVER SEEN HIS NAME EXCEPT HERE FROM YOU.

I also didn't know that the whale (AKA Rosanne Barr) was running either. Now thats a candidate I think we should support. maybe she can siphon off enough of the nuts on the left who think a 3rd party can win. Lord knows we have enough of them on the right maybe it will save us from another 4 of Obama

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

And for the record, I don't watch the news, local or otherwise. I get my info off the net. From multiple sources because I don't trust just one. AND I"VE NEVER SEEN HIS NAME EXCEPT HERE FROM YOU.

So you are saying you are comfortable with your head in the sand and IF you vote you will vote for whoever they tell you to vote for because you have no idea about anything that is going on in our government or that there are people out there trying to make it better.

In other words you are part of the apathetic majority in this country who are the problem because working for a solution takes to much time and energy.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

So you are saying you are comfortable with your head in the sand and IF you vote you will vote for whoever they tell you to vote for because you have no idea about anything that is going on in our government or that there are people out there trying to make it better.

In other words you are part of the apathetic majority in this country who are the problem because working for a solution takes to much time and energy.

Don't put words in my mouth. I do not believe in legalizing drugs or gay marriage! Which are beliefs of the libertarian party. SO WHY THE HELL WOULD I EVEN LOOK AT THERE SITE. And since there is no Conservative party in Cali.

So lets see I can vote for

Barack Obama - Democrat um NO for reasons that should be obvious even to you.

Thomas Hoefling - American Independent I would love to vote for the AI candidate. I strongly agree with the majority of their positions. And I would vote for him in any other year. However I refuse to be a party to helping Obama win a second term

Jill Stein - Green party. Don't believe in global warming

Gary Johnson - Libertarian. Since I do not believe in gay marriage or legalizing drugs, both libertarian stances I will not vote for a libertarian. Sorry.

Roseanne Barr - Peace and Freedom. Do I even have to justify why she's not getting my vote?

Mitt Romney - Republican Better than the other choices (except Hoefling) and the best bet at removing the traitor from the oval office.

[Ledslnger]

I won't vote for Romney because we will have millions of guys named Patel running our garbage trucks, being our police, paving our roads, and only God knows what else. Romney sent every job he could overseas and I think his next big plan is to bring the overseas workers here to take even more of our jobs. Wouldn't shock me in the least. It would help him capitalize and make more than $20 MIL a year.

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

Don't put words in my mouth. I do not believe in legalizing drugs or gay marriage! Which are beliefs of the libertarian party. SO WHY THE HELL WOULD I EVEN LOOK AT THERE SITE. And since there is no Conservative party in Cali. It isn't approval of drug use it is decriminalization which is a big difference unless of course you think the billions we have spent interdicting drugs and incarcerating drug users in expensive prison cells is a good thing.

The beauty of the Libertarian party is the freedom to believe what you want as long as you don't interfere with others rights. Note my Sig line, I am a Roman Catholic and while I will never tell you that you can't have a boy friend I would disapprove heartily if you tried to marry him.
So lets see I can vote for

Barack Obama - Democrat um NO for reasons that should be obvious even to you. I voted against Obama in 96. I didn't know much about him then but knew about his campaign advisers and he was already into dirty tricks. By the time he ran for the US Senate I was back in Wisconsin but heartily approved of his opponents, Ryan first then Keyes. My history of opposition to him probably goes back further than your first knowledge of his existence.

Thomas Hoefling - American Independent I would love to vote for the AI candidate. I strongly agree with the majority of their positions. And I would vote for him in any other year. However I refuse to be a party to helping Obama win a second term

Jill Stein - Green party. Don't believe in global warming

Gary Johnson - Libertarian. Since I do not believe in gay marriage or legalizing drugs, both libertarian stances I will not vote for a libertarian. Sorry.

Roseanne Barr - Peace and Freedom. Do I even have to justify why she's not getting my vote? Why do you keep bringing up the old fat crotch grabber, she is a joke just like the Pat Paulson campaign.

Mitt Romney - Republican Better than the other choices (except Hoefling) and the best bet at removing the traitor from the oval office.

Libertarians are the third biggest party in the US and have more people in public office than any other 3rd party. Their performance at local levels has been rated pretty good and they have a decent reelection record. No wild eyed anarchists in office, the fringe members do most of their talking on the net or in college dorms where their parents pay their bills and they rail against the system. Those are not Libertarians.

Either you support people who are 100% behind the Constitution or you support people who only believe in it if it does not interfere with their political aspirations. Your choice. Until they get enough votes from supporters to make the powers in office pay attention they will continue to be invisible to most people. Most of what you are objecting to are the same tired arguments parroted by people who have never studied the political philosophy of the Libertarian party.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Libertarians are the third biggest party in the US and have more people in public office than any other 3rd party. Their performance at local levels has been rated pretty good and they have a decent reelection record. No wild eyed anarchists in office, the fringe members do most of their talking on the net or in college dorms where their parents pay their bills and they rail against the system. Those are not Libertarians.

So what you are saying, through all your political BS about how the 2 big parties are to blame for everything is I should scrap MY principles and support the 3rd largest party

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Either you support people who are 100% behind the Constitution or you support people who only believe in it if it does not interfere with their political aspirations. Your choice. Until they get enough votes from supporters to make the powers in office pay attention they will continue to be invisible to most people. Most of what you are objecting to are the same tired arguments parroted by people who have never studied the political philosophy of the Libertarian party.

Do you even know what your party stands for. I'm so sick of you cycnical BS. You don't know me or what I've studied.

From the Libertarian site
Basically boils down to a support of the right to marriage. Yep just parroting from me. Oh wait no its from your partys site
http://www.lp.org/news/press-release...riage-equality

I don't know what Johnson's personal beliefs are but I DO KNOW what the libertarian party position is, even if you don't.
The problem with gay marriage is they continue to incorporate into their marriage bill that the church must accept their marriage. And refusing to perform a gay marriage could bring a lawsuit on the church. That infringes on my rights as a church member. I will not support such a bill ever. While I do appreciate that they want to put it to the states, they still support it.

Now drugs
Again from the LP web site.

Am I still parroting or did you not know that your party supports the legalization of drugs. I'd suggest you study your party a little bit better if you want to run your fingers.

http://www.lp.org/news/press-release...egalization-ad

Here is another from yet again the LP site
http://www.lp.org/blogs/staff/gallup...lize-marijuana Um those said legalize not decriminalize. You do know the difference right? Cause I'm pretty sure I do.

Yea I just parrot

I DON"T SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE OR THE LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE AS LONG AS THIS IS THE STANCE OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY.

By the way, just as a personal note of interest. This will be the last election I will vote in as a Republican. Come the first of the year I will be a member of the American Independent Party

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Ledslnger

I won't vote for Romney because we will have millions of guys named Patel running our garbage trucks, being our police, paving our roads, and only God knows what else. Romney sent every job he could overseas and I think his next big plan is to bring the overseas workers here to take even more of our jobs. Wouldn't shock me in the least. It would help him capitalize and make more than $20 MIL a year.

Whatever. As long as you can look yourself in the mirror the morning after Obama is reelected, then vote for whoever the hell you want. Now I know why DD is so cynical about libs. I'm beginning to understand we have those on the right that aren't worth the time to deal with either.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

I DON"T SUPPORT GAY MARRIAGE OR THE LEGALIZATION OF DRUGS. I WILL NOT VOTE FOR A LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE AS LONG AS THIS IS THE STANCE OF THE LIBERTARIAN PARTY.

By the way, just as a personal note of interest. This will be the last election I will vote in as a Republican. Come the first of the year I will be a member of the American Independent Party

I don't support gay marriage either. I think it's deplorable.
But God gave us freedom. He allows us to live our own lives as we choose, even if we choose deplorable sin.

Having the government recognize homosexual marriage doesn't make homosexual marriage any more moral or "right"; it's simply the government admitting that it exists. And it does exist, whether our governments recognize it or not. It existed before it was ever legal here, and it will continue for as long as sinful people exist.

And there are two good arguments for removing criminal penalties for drugs. First, it's your own life and your own body; if you aren't allowed to control those, you are a slave.
The second argument is based more on realism than on principle. It's not an argument that drug use is good or right. It's simply an assessment that the so-called "War on Drugs" has been more destructive to our society than the drugs ever were before they were banned. The War on Drugs has been the steroid to the development of a police state, and it is the cause for the total destruction of family structure in several minority groups.
I do support the decriminalization of illicit drugs, but I won't use them if they are made legal. Not my thing.

I am a libertarian (the lower-case "L" there was intentional, as I am not a supporter of the Libertarian Party). I believe that people are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, including liberty. People are free to reject God, and it's horrible, but if He gave them that freedom, it's not my role to use the force of government to strip that from them.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

I don't support gay marriage either. I think it's deplorable.
But God gave us freedom. He allows us to live our own lives as we choose, even if we choose deplorable sin.

Having the government recognize homosexual marriage doesn't make homosexual marriage any more moral or "right"; it's simply the government admitting that it exists. And it does exist, whether our governments recognize it or not. It existed before it was ever legal here, and it will continue for as long as sinful people exist.

And there are two good arguments for removing criminal penalties for drugs. First, it's your own life and your own body; if you aren't allowed to control those, you are a slave.
The second argument is based more on realism than on principle. It's not an argument that drug use is good or right. It's simply an assessment that the so-called "War on Drugs" has been more destructive to our society than the drugs ever were before they were banned. The War on Drugs has been the steroid to the development of a police state, and it is the cause for the total destruction of family structure in several minority groups.
I do support the decriminalization of illicit drugs, but I won't use them if they are made legal. Not my thing.

I am a libertarian (the lower-case "L" there was intentional, as I am not a supporter of the Libertarian Party). I believe that people are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, including liberty. People are free to reject God, and it's horrible, but if He gave them that freedom, it's not my role to use the force of government to strip that from them.

I don't give a good God damn whether the government recognizes gay marriage or not. What I care about is forcing the church to accept it. Which IS the agenda. That infringes on MY rights.

As far as drugs go, legalizing it and then realizing oops that was stupid will lead to another prohibition if we then try to make it illegal again. My stance is don't make any more laws that we aren't going to enforce anyways. I don't believe it should be legal. I think it will lead to more problems than you realize. And I don't get how the war on drugs ruined the family structure. I would argue just using them ruined the family structure. Its hard to be a parent when your stoned. Don't ya think

I appreciate that you consider yourself a libertarian. To the extent that I believe in states rights rather than federal rights I am too. However I consider myself a conservative over everything. But Old Grump is advocating the Libertarian Party. As I do not advocate the legalization of drugs I will not support their party.

[Appliancedude]

Just a thought, I havn't seen the Libertarians come out all hell bent on ending the seat belt laws. And those are recent compared to drug laws. My body. I shouldn't have to wear it if I choose not to right? Its weird they care more about drugs than seat belts. I don't do drugs but I do drive a car. Hmm why do they care more about drugs than seat belts....... I wonder

[Old Grump]

Lets see, I am a life member of the Libertarian Party since George Bush Sr, stabbed us in the back and gave us Clinton back in 1993 but you finally googled Libertarians and now you know more about it than I do.

I'm saying you support the constitution and the people who also support it or you support the old guard who are in politics to get in and stay in office, gather power and get rich at our expense. You made your choice. Patriot Act, TSA, loosened standards for wire tapping, jailed without charges or trial if somebody in power labels you a terrorist. Do you remember when this used to be a free country, we were never perfect but we had the freedom to say and do pretty much as we wanted without having to worry about lawsuits and getting fined because your wild flowers look like weeds to the neighbors.

Congress passes laws making them mandatory for us but exempting themselves is not a good thing. Czars is not a good thing. The number of armed police officers for the Federal agencies has grown exponentially since 911 yet we have sections of our national parks closed to us because the government cannot corral the criminals who run free or control our borders but they will confiscate a belt buckle at the airport if it has a gun related insignia on it. Do you feel safer?

Every single campaign has been run on the promise that the size of government will be cut back yet we add new departments and agencies everytime somebody in Congress gets an itch. Have they made life better for us, made our schools better our our railroads safer or helped our ship building industry prosper?

Do you for one second think Romney is going to irritate his former colleagues by slashing their favorite programs or agencies or bust the civil servants union by putting a few hundred thousand of them out of work. News Flash, all that has to be paid for and the government does not have any revenue except what it can get from us. More people on welfare, fewer people working and the Federal work force growing so fast it makes growth industries look like amateurs.

Electing the same old politicians will not get the job done but all you can see is 30 days from now. Well Obama is not the problem he is just the visible head of a huge boil on the public butt. He is the visible sign of our problem but it goes much deeper and you want to perpetuate that. Romney is not the cure, the cure is a clean sweep of Congress and we won't get it because you are locked into the 2 party system. You are comfortable with that sacred cow and refuse to do anything about it because you might have to take a chance and do something bold and innovative.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Lets see, I am a life member of the Libertarian Party since George Bush Sr, stabbed us in the back and gave us Clinton back in 1993 but you finally googled Libertarians and now you know more about it than I do. So your a life member since 93 that makes you what 18. No wonder you don't know what your talking about Finally googled Libertarians? Again you think you know me. I've research Libertarians. I've listened to the Limbaugh of the Libertarian air waves (Niel Bortz) I've talked to true Libertarians and those that think they are and are really misguided liberals. You don't know crap about me jack. And you don't know what your partys stances are either. I notice you didn't argue the points I made, just deflected off in another direction.


I'm saying you support the constitution and the people who also support it or you support the old guard who are in politics to get in and stay in office, gather power and get rich at our expense. You made your choice. Patriot Act, TSA, loosened standards for wire tapping, jailed without charges or trial if somebody in power labels you a terrorist. Do you remember when this used to be a free country,Nope, I don't. I'm 36. You old guys screwed it up long before I was even born we were never perfect but we had the freedom to say and do pretty much as we wanted without having to worry about lawsuits and getting fined because your wild flowers look like weeds to the neighbors. And thanks to your generation you F'd that up didn't you. And left it for my generation to fix. Thanks a lot When I was a pup a lady sued and won cause she spilt hot coffee in her lap from McD's. Those lawsuits you speak of, not my generation, I grew up with that crap. Thank you and your generation for that crap

Congress passes laws making them mandatory for us but exempting themselves is not a good thing. Czars is not a good thing. The number of armed police officers for the Federal agencies has grown exponentially since 911 yet we have sections of our national parks closed to us because the government cannot corral the criminals who run free or control our borders but they will confiscate a belt buckle at the airport if it has a gun related insignia on it. Do you feel safer? Nope sure don't. And you think a guy from the 3rd largest party is gonna be different? Your out of your mind. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. He'll be as bad as the other 2 within 6 months

Every single campaign has been run on the promise that the size of government will be cut back yet we add new departments and agencies everytime somebody in Congress gets an itch. Have they made life better for us, made our schools better our our railroads safer or helped our ship building industry prosper? Nope, because we have never held them to their promises. We have been blind and mute for to long. We work our asses off and don't pay attention to what they do. I myself am waking up to it now. I'm 36 by most standards young and dumb. Whats your excuse? How long has your head been in the sand. Since you turned 18 in 93, (after all your a life member), well thats half my life slick. You got to keep your head in the sand a hell of a lot longer than I did. You should have woke up with Carter. You didn't. You kept your head buried and left it for another generation

Do you for one second think Romney is going to irritate his former colleagues by slashing their favorite programs or agencies or bust the civil servants union by putting a few hundred thousand of them out of work. News Flash, all that has to be paid for and the government does not have any revenue except what it can get from us. More people on welfare, fewer people working and the Federal work force growing so fast it makes growth industries look like amateurs. Again Nope. But he can't be as bad as the dipwad we have now. And HE IS the only other guy that can win. You waited to long. I know I know your only 18, you guys should have been working on this for a long time now. You didn't, you failed, and now its up to a new generation to do it. And we woke up to late. Its to late to push another candidate

Electing the same old politicians will not get the job done but all you can see is 30 days from now. Well Obama is not the problem he is just the visible head of a huge boil on the public butt. He is the visible sign of our problem but it goes much deeper and you want to perpetuate that. Romney is not the cure, the cure is a clean sweep of Congress and we won't get it because you are locked into the 2 party system. You are comfortable with that sacred cow and refuse to do anything about it because you might have to take a chance and do something bold and innovative. Again, you should have seen the light during Carter. You didn't. You left your head in the sand and then want to take it out on the younger generation because we were busy building familys and lives and not paying attention to what was going on, all the while not doing a damned thing about it yourselfs. I'm not locked into the 2 party system, I'm just smart enough to realize a 3rd party isn't going to win this one. You guys that woke up in 93 havn't done enough in 18years to push another party onto the scene. I've stated before we need to push 3rd partys at the state level. Thats not being done in most states. No, no go for the white house. Not a chance slick. You guys should have been pushing candidates for 20 years now. If you had, maybe we'd have a different country today.

[Old Grump]

So your a life member since 93 that makes you what 18. Closer to 70, took me awhile to get smart.

I've listened to the Limbaugh of the Libertarian air waves (Niel Bortz) I've talked to true Libertarians and those that think they are and are really misguided liberals. Bortz is a character no two ways about it and I take him as serious as I do Limbaugh, entertainment value with a nugget of wisdom once in awhile.

You don't know crap about me jack. And you don't know what your partys stances are either. I notice you didn't argue the points I made, just deflected off in another direction.I didn't deflect I just didn't bother, I can google any side of an argument I want from any party I want.

Get the state newsletter and the national Libertarian newspaper and read them and you will see it is not a nice neat homogenous package but full of individualists. The over riding principle is we all believe in the constitution not just parts of it. You can get out there and quote the loony fringe of the party and your quotes would be correct but they are not representative of all of us.

Yes I believe a Libertarian would stay true to his word unlike most politicians who only say what they must to get elected and then do whats in their interest not ours.

That is why we are a minority party, people do not want to hear truth, they want sugar coated promises even though they know they wont get delivered.

It's your choice, vote for an American or a politician and you made your choice. You want more of the same thing.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

[B]
It's your choice, vote for an American or a politician and you made your choice. You want more of the same thing.

Look Obama Junior, just because you keep repeating the same lie doesn't make it true.

let me try and explain why I think your a fool.

For 18 years you've been a Libertarian. What have you and your fellow Libertarians done to advance your movement. Answer- Not a damned thing.

There are 100 US Senators. 51 Dem, 47 Rep, and 2 independents. The independents are Bernie Sanders a socialist from Vermont, and Joe Lieberman who was ousted from the Dem party for supporting McCane.

There are 435 Congressman. 193 Dem, 242 Rep. NO independents.

Where pray tell are your precious Libertarians? Not in our Federal government. Not since the 93rd congress which was before I was born, has there ever been more than 2 people in congress not belonging to the Dems or Reps.

Your not a minority party because people don't want to hear the truth, your a minority party because you don't push your agenda. You sit back and bitch and moan because the R's and D's are ruining our country but don't do a damned thing about it yourself s. I ask again, where are your libertarians in Congress? Not one. You guys can't even get one guy elected to federal government. But your damned sure gonna win the presidency arn't ya. Yea, you can't get a senator or congressman elected, but hey if all you dumb ass republicans would just vote our way we could win. YEA RIGHT. Show me some federal election wins for the Libertarians and then we'll talk.

I've stated before and I will state again. The movement has to start at the state level. I'm all for removing R's and D's from Congress. Maybe if we can get to 1/3 independents in Congress one will have a shot at Pres. Until then, I'll just continue to think your a damned fool for wasting your vote.

[BlackEagle]

Wow, guys;
this sure has turned intense and strayed from the original post subject. Can we all step back, take about 30 deep breaths, read the count to a million thread for a while and let things cool off for a while?

I think we're all agreed that the present White House occupant has to be evicted and he proved his lack of ability to lead especially well in this last debate. Hopefully the next two debates will persuade even more people to abandon him and vote for someone else, and deepen the conviction in those already persuaded that he needs to go.

In the UK we have three strong parties UK wide; four in Scotland. In the last general election there was no overall winner, so a coalition government was formed between the two parties that were stronger--Tories and Liberal Democrats. As with all compromise situations, nobody is happy with the final result and I suspect Labour will get the government next time around.
In Scotland Scottish National Party wiped the country; there are only a few seats in the Scottish Parliament that are not SNP now, so the First Minister considers that a mandate to do whatever he wants with the country...100% "renewable energy" by 2024, nothing nuclear in the country--weapons or electricity; "independance" for Scotland thus placing Scotland directly under the thumb of the European Union; homosexual marriage; the list could go on.

That's my rant for today; hopefully there's something useful in it for the US. I will be voitng via absentee ballot this time around.

Thanks for the time, guys.

[Appliancedude]

Ok so I stepped back took 30 breaths, and I still think he's a damned fool, and I"m sure he thinks I still want the status quo. Now what?

[Old Grump]

About 150 maybe a little more Libertarians are holding elected office at local and state level. Gary Johnson was governor of New Mexico and Ed Thompson won 11% of the vote in Wisconsin when he ran. Polls showed he had considerably more supporters but like all the other chicken compromisers most of his fans chickened out at the polls and voted Republican because they figured he didn't have a chance to win.

Look at states like New Hampshire and Massachusetts where the states are overwhelmingly liberal and Democrat, they have a lot of Libertarians in office but California, Arizona and Florida leads. Who woulda thunk it? Better to be a damn fool then a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry. That is what a compromiser is, a potential man who is afraid to stand up for what is right. He takes the easy way out by swimming with the current instead of across or against the current to get where he really should be.

Signed: Damn Fool

[fuzebox40]

You can't always get what you want, (yes, Rolling Stones) but what we need is to get that traitor out of the White House.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

About 150 maybe a little more Libertarians are holding elected office at local and state level. Gary Johnson was governor of New Mexico and Ed Thompson won 11% of the vote in Wisconsin when he ran. Polls showed he had considerably more supporters but like all the other chicken compromisers most of his fans chickened out at the polls and voted Republican because they figured he didn't have a chance to win.

Look at states like New Hampshire and Massachusetts where the states are overwhelmingly liberal and Democrat, they have a lot of Libertarians in office but California, Arizona and Florida leads. Who woulda thunk it? Better to be a damn fool then a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry. That is what a compromiser is, a potential man who is afraid to stand up for what is right. He takes the easy way out by swimming with the current instead of across or against the current to get where he really should be.

Signed: Damn Fool

So let me get this straight. After all I'm just a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry, status quo loving R, who is not a LIFE member of the Libertarian party so can't possibly know what they stand for(even though I proved it with pages from their own site, but I digress). Since the party was formed in 1974 you guys have made it all the way to 150 elected people. WOW. That is so impressive. Can you tell me why in 2003 there were over 600 and now its down to 150? Perhaps its because they are simply full of crap politicians the same as the R's and D's. Or is it because (by your admission) your party can't stand by their convictions? What happened to the 450 that are no longer in office? So the 3rd largest party has a measly 150 people in office. Sniff sniff I hope your proud, I sure would be.

Maybe instead of pushing a guy who has 0% chance of winning the white house, you should be trying to get one of them into congress. Show the country how great your party is, then get more elected. Your not gonna oust a party the way they're handling it. You can't just win the white house. You've got to mobilize and get congress seats. When you ever get even say 50 seats in congress, you might, might just have a snowballs chance in hell of winning. Right now, you don't even have that.

signed
just a pile of fecal matter derived from poultry, status quo loving R, who is not a LIFE member of the Libertarian party so can't possibly know what they stand for