Saiga AK-103 Question - The Firearms Forum

rocket469 · 04-16-2003, 12:07 AM

I recently bought an Kalishnikov Saiga 103, AK-47, it came with a full synthetic stock, and a metal folder. The label said "Pre-Ban" but the dealer just left the full stock on. So I came home and put on the folder, took it to the range, and some guys told me that it doesn't have the signs of a pre-ban, and I should take off the stock ASAP. So How do I find out for sure, and if it is post ban, what do I do to the gun dealer telling lies?

Thanks

1952Sniper · 04-16-2003, 07:27 AM

I can't comment directly on your situation, since my knowledge of AKs is limited. But in general, NEVER trust a dealer when he says something is pre-ban. That is an over-used and abused term. It's usually a gimmick on the part of the dealer to con you into paying more for something. And he's usually wrong. To my knowledge, there is not any legal recourse if you're busted doing something wrong with a post-ban firearm that you thought was a pre-ban. The onus is on YOU to comply with the laws. If you can make a good argument against the dealer for lying, he may get a slap on the wrist. But you'll be the one going to jail for the violation.

It almost seems that the laws for imported semi-autos are written to specifically create pitfalls for us. Many people try to push the limits with some hazy interpretation of the law. The BATF is not so generous with their interpretations. When in doubt, play it safe!

FYI, being a pre-ban weapon does not automatically allow you to create a semi-automatic assault weapon. It had to be a semi-automatic assault weapon before the ban went into effect. Altering it after the ban is illegal, even on a pre-ban firearm. That's the kicker that most people don't realize, and that's why dealers make so much money on the "pre-ban" myth.

CountryGunsmith · 04-16-2003, 07:50 AM

What are all the markings on the rifle, particularly the manufacturer?

rocket469 · 04-16-2003, 09:23 PM

Bear with me, I'll try and discribe it best as I can.
It has some after manafacture stamps on it, the bottom of the barrel (y), the front sight 2.

Left reciever: 99 stamped after man, 1059013 (White) recorded serial number at dealer. SAIGA 7.62
7.62 x 39
Some weird symbols, Made in Russia by IZHMASH

Right reciever: {013} (White) (U) on the bolt/slide handle
KALASHNIKOV- USA
Pt St. Lucie, FL USA

I tried to take some pictures, but some of the markings are hard to see.

Thanks for your help.

CountryGunsmith · 04-17-2003, 06:09 AM

Absolutely a POST-BAN rifle, by 10 years.

AK-USA takes Saiga hunting carbines and remanufactures them into a civilian-legal version of the AK-103 select-fire assault rifle. Retrofitting that rifle with a folding stock would be a violation of federal law.

Its hard to believe that a dealer in that type of rifle would not know that. MSRP is around $700 for that rifle.

I split this thread out, since it really deserves to stand on its own.

rocket469 · 04-17-2003, 06:49 PM

So it is worth $7ish, being post-ban?
If so

, I got it for $620, with both stocks, 5 30rds, mag pouch, red dot scope, and it was on layaway for about 5 months.

Full stock is on it!!! How much would the folder sell for?
Thanks,
J

04-16-2003, 12:07 AM	#1
rocket469 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 16	Folding stock I recently bought an Kalishnikov Saiga 103, AK-47, it came with a full synthetic stock, and a metal folder. The label said "Pre-Ban" but the dealer just left the full stock on. So I came home and put on the folder, took it to the range, and some guys told me that it doesn't have the signs of a pre-ban, and I should take off the stock ASAP. So How do I find out for sure, and if it is post ban, what do I do to the gun dealer telling lies? Thanks -->

04-16-2003, 07:50 AM	#3
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	What are all the markings on the rifle, particularly the manufacturer? __________________ The autonomic nervous system provides for involuntary muscle function - the work of breathing, digestion, and so forth. On some folks, that's a pure waste of ingenuity.

04-16-2003, 09:23 PM	#4
rocket469 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 16	What is on it. Bear with me, I'll try and discribe it best as I can. It has some after manafacture stamps on it, the bottom of the barrel (y), the front sight 2. Left reciever: 99 stamped after man, 1059013 (White) recorded serial number at dealer. SAIGA 7.62 7.62 x 39 Some weird symbols, Made in Russia by IZHMASH Right reciever: {013} (White) (U) on the bolt/slide handle KALASHNIKOV- USA Pt St. Lucie, FL USA I tried to take some pictures, but some of the markings are hard to see. Thanks for your help.

04-17-2003, 06:09 AM	#5
CountryGunsmith Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Deep Piney Woods of East Texas Posts: 5,116	Absolutely a POST-BAN rifle, by 10 years. AK-USA takes Saiga hunting carbines and remanufactures them into a civilian-legal version of the AK-103 select-fire assault rifle. Retrofitting that rifle with a folding stock would be a violation of federal law. Its hard to believe that a dealer in that type of rifle would not know that. MSRP is around $700 for that rifle. I split this thread out, since it really deserves to stand on its own. __________________ The autonomic nervous system provides for involuntary muscle function - the work of breathing, digestion, and so forth. On some folks, that's a pure waste of ingenuity.

04-17-2003, 06:49 PM	#6
rocket469 Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: AZ Posts: 16	Shucks So it is worth $7ish, being post-ban? If so , I got it for $620, with both stocks, 5 30rds, mag pouch, red dot scope, and it was on layaway for about 5 months. Full stock is on it!!! How much would the folder sell for? Thanks, J

04-16-2003, 07:27 AM	#2
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	I can't comment directly on your situation, since my knowledge of AKs is limited. But in general, NEVER trust a dealer when he says something is pre-ban. That is an over-used and abused term. It's usually a gimmick on the part of the dealer to con you into paying more for something. And he's usually wrong. To my knowledge, there is not any legal recourse if you're busted doing something wrong with a post-ban firearm that you thought was a pre-ban. The onus is on YOU to comply with the laws. If you can make a good argument against the dealer for lying, he may get a slap on the wrist. But you'll be the one going to jail for the violation. It almost seems that the laws for imported semi-autos are written to specifically create pitfalls for us. Many people try to push the limits with some hazy interpretation of the law. The BATF is not so generous with their interpretations. When in doubt, play it safe! FYI, being a pre-ban weapon does not automatically allow you to create a semi-automatic assault weapon. It had to be a semi-automatic assault weapon before the ban went into effect. Altering it after the ban is illegal, even on a pre-ban firearm. That's the kicker that most people don't realize, and that's why dealers make so much money on the "pre-ban" myth.