Home defense AR: Kept w/ round in chamber?

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by tcox4freedom

All guns SD/HD firearms loaded plus 1 all the time!

I have two kids. (10 & 12) Both know how to shoot & safely use a firearm. Both know where & when they can/cannot touch them.

Because of the time spent educating my kids (when they were younger) & taking away the "forbidden fruit" & "curiosity" factor, firearms are really a NON-issue for my kids. (They honestly could care LESS!!!)

But, fortunately, both have already made up their mind to CC when they are of legal age.

-

Yep thats how I was raised too. And its how I'm raising my kids. But at 3 and 5 the curiosity is still way to prevalent.

[pickenup]

2 basic reasons I will not use a rifle for home defense. Over-penetration is the first. You can mitigate some of this with bullet selection.

The second reason is lead. Or more specifically, how much lead can you throw with each round.

I live in bear country. Have had one no more than 10 feet away, with nothing between him and I but air. Had them on my deck (pressing nose against window, staring at me eye to eye) eating out of the bird feeders, on my house, etc.

Having encountered these critters on numerous occasions, I admit that it does get the adrenalin pumping.

So, I use a 12 ga. for home defense. Don't worry much about over-penetration with one of these. This is for "home defense" I am not going to be shooting 100-300 yards down range. This is for inside the home, or maybe the distance of a "regular" yard.

In answer to the OP question, there is one in the chamber, and safety is off. I do not want there to be ANY question whether the firearm is going to work, because of having to rack a round into the chamber, when my adrenalin is on overload. Not going to try to scare the bear, with the sound of pumping a round into the chamber either.

Now considering a bear just broke into your house. You can fire 40-55-69 or 90 grain bullets at him, traveling at (+ or -) 3000 fps. Which is going to punch a little hole through him real fast, doing quite a bit of damage. Probably killing him, it's just that he doesn't know that he is dead yet.
(I know, multiple holes, and bullet selection)

Or you can throw 437.5 Grains of hollow point with EACH ROUND thrown at him, traveling at (+ or -) 1500 fps. LOTS of lead, moving a lot slower, tearing BIG chunks of brain and body parts off as it passes through.

Which sounds more effective in convincing the bear that he has LOST the battle RIGHT NOW?

Oh, and if it is not a bear, but happens to be a critter that walks upright, talks, and eats sitting at a table, that has entered my abode uninvited, well....the same reasons/tactics holds true.

This isn't the big one that started to push his nose through the window, he broke the plastic storm window, but not the glass. This is just a small one looking at me through the window, after having destroyed a hummingbird feeder. Making a mess of the syrup, getting it all over himself and the window I might add.

[jce07a]

Originally Posted by gvw3

I live in a safe area with pd only 1/4 mile away but you never know.

as the saying goes though "when seconds count, help is only minutes away" i live less than a mile from a police station. had a guy pull a gun on me when i asked him to not drive 85 on residential streets...took the police 20 minutes to show up.

as for my guns, i keep one chambered in both glocks, and my bond arms snake slayer, all within reach of the bed. in the gun cabinet, my 870 has one chambered and two in the tube, my AR15 has a full mag in the well with the bolt locked back and dust cover closed but if i need it i can grab it, slap the bolt release and go. my keltec sub2000 also has a full mag ready to go.
the two glocks have hornady critical defense/zombie max (cuz its the same thing and i found a couple places sell zombie max cheaper)
snake slayer has winchester PDX1 410
870 has 00buck
AR is mixed, JHP and FMJ and i think there may be a tracer or two in there
KT Sub 2000 has the same as the glocks

i dont have kids though...just a big goofy great dane who surprised me one night by nearly taking my leg off when he didnt recognize me comin through the door...i guess thats what i get for changing clothes after work and getting a ride home. he didnt hear my truck and knew what i left the house in and didnt return in it lol

[aa1911]

Which sounds more effective in convincing the bear that he has LOST the battle RIGHT NOW?

[/QUOTE]

agreed, I would still feel good with 7.62 NATO but a 1 oz slug traveling 1400fps is going to have more 'knockdown' power, FWIW. Kinda like a .45acp vs 9mm debate...

[skullfr]

I keep one pistol on nightstand and one under the bed in a metal box.That way I can roll out and have one in reach.I only have a small dog and when my grandaughter comes(18 month old) the door is shut.I was raised to respect them at a early age and tell my son to do the same as he was taught.He tells me he really charishes the memories of us shooting or hunting(really a noisy walk in the woods) and has become a real good shot.Now I am working on temper control since he carries.

[Rocketman1]

I have a gun that I keep on the night stand, with a full mag. I do not keep a round in the chamber for extra safety, it is way to easy to chamber a round, and I'm good to go.

i don't have any kids, but I do have grand children that come over once in a blue moon. On those occasions the guns are unloaded and put in the safe.

[oldcrustytanker]

I keep my .40 S&W with a loaded clip not one in the pipe bedside and my wife also keeps her .380 auto on her side of the bed as well both loaded but not chambered.

[oldcrustytanker]

Oh, and in my opinion a 12 gauge with 3inch OO buckshot can't be beat for home invasion protection.

[MSGT-R]

The sound of racking a gun will make most prowlers piss their pants and run. If it doesn't, the next sound will be a round going "down range". I love doleing out that Oh-**** moment.

[Cajun Chooter]

if its not loaded and ready to roll... might as well have a rock..

[cpttango30]

I sprinkle guns around my house like fairy dust.

[Zane71464]

Loaded and full mag,, I dont have children around (grown and moved away) but when they where around, safety first. With kids around, guns are either unloaded or locked up.
But as of now, freakin' locked and loaded and ready for hell's furry(spelling)!
(wouldnt wanna be me, breaking in my house!)

[HAGEN442]

Questions & My Old 2 Cents
If we are talking 223 Caliber ARs : That is a lot of penatration within sheetrock wood and brick or normal building products.
I hope your nearest neighbor is at least 300 yds from your house .
My preference to handle a Outside Door or Window Situation is 10 Rounds of 12 Gauge 000 Buck.
Within the House, 38s mostly with some scattered 9mm stuff
Outside the House, 45ACP AR Carbine.( My nearest neighbor is 250 Yds backed up by
2 Mile Deep Woods.
I do not pretend to know it all, but I been around a while.
00

[Zane71464]

I live out in the country and not many neighbors close by. The AR is equipped with 700Lum. light and laser. I'd like to think my first shot or so (should it ever come to that) would work it's majic so to speak.

[FreeWill]

[FreeWill]

And that from a rifel like this one which I use for HD and yes have a round in the chamber.

[carver]

http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?opt...d=15&Itemid=26

The 55 grain HP .223 has less penetration than any of the other ammunition tested. Based on the results of this testing, there appears to be no basis for concern regarding the over penetration of the .223 [HP] round. In fact, it seems even safer in this regard than .40 S&W handgun ammunition.

The hollow point cavity in the .40S&W round filled with material when shot through the wall. This caused [these bullets] to fail to expand when they entered the gelatin. As a result, they penetrated 8.5" farther than when shot directly into the gelatin.

When the .223 [HP] was shot through he wall it began to fragment and as a result penetrated the gelatin only 5.5".

Because the .223 [HP] begins to break up on impact, it has less potential for damage or injury than the 12 ga. in the event of a ricochet. The .223 [HP] is obviously safer in an urban environment than the 12 ga. with slugs or buckshot.

[FreeWill]

[FreeWill]

While some people question the 12" penetration limit, it is not subject to discussion in this article. The FBI is deemed to be more knowledgeable than most, and it is backed up my Dr. Martin Fackler and others who have spent their life discussing the subject. Duncan McPherson, in his book "Bullet Penetration: Modeling the Dynamics and the Incapacitation Resulting from Wound Trauma" actually argues that 15" is not an unrealistic requirement a bullet should obtain. He does point out, however, that 11.5" of penetration shouldn't completely disqualify a bullet from being acceptable either. While 12" should be a minimum requirement, 18" is the approximate maximum desired penetration depth. Beyond that, and the bullet is likely to exit the intended target and retain enough energy to cause others harm if a person should be in the line of fire. Obviously you should never take the shot if you're not sure of what's beyond your target and rely on your ammunition to do your job of being prudent.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_De..._FAQ/index.htm

[Unknown]

now if you all with allow it i will bring up another subject of using an AR for home defense i havent read yet and one i have a problem with. using an "M-16 machine gun" for home defense. cause thats what your "event" will look like in the paper the morning after.

now i understand the sentiment "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and thats not what this is about. what it is about is paying 2k for a beautiful AR that you have put all your personal customizations on, only to have it taken away and never seen again, or being forced to sell it after you have done what had to be done. now where is the practicality in that i ask.

now your situation might be different, you may know the local law enforcement, your officers or the law are lenient on situations as such in your area. chances are 95% of us here live in the actual CONUS and have to deal with the anti-2a floods in the populated areas and in the country. even here in my place in southeast texas i have had tales of men sans their rifle because they used it for protection, miles and miles and miles outside of Houston.

that is why i will only use a pistol or my shotgun for home defense as long as i stay here in my apt of course, but even when i have a home with substantial amount of land i will not use my rifle because i dont need cops jacking my expensive toy for "evidence" while a dude with a ski mask and crowbar is laying facedown infront of my bedroom door. ...plus my preference is for AK's so if the cops ever find that ill probably be thrown down on my face and cuffed cause im a man who fancies "evil criminal weapons."

[norahc]

Originally Posted by Unknown

now if you all with allow it i will bring up another subject of using an AR for home defense i havent read yet and one i have a problem with. using an "M-16 machine gun" for home defense. cause thats what your "event" will look like in the paper the morning after.

now i understand the sentiment "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6" and thats not what this is about. what it is about is paying 2k for a beautiful AR that you have put all your personal customizations on, only to have it taken away and never seen again, or being forced to sell it after you have done what had to be done. now where is the practicality in that i ask.

now your situation might be different, you may know the local law enforcement, your officers or the law are lenient on situations as such in your area. chances are 95% of us here live in the actual CONUS and have to deal with the anti-2a floods in the populated areas and in the country. even here in my place in southeast texas i have had tales of men sans their rifle because they used it for protection, miles and miles and miles outside of Houston.

that is why i will only use a pistol or my shotgun for home defense as long as i stay here in my apt of course, but even when i have a home with substantial amount of land i will not use my rifle because i dont need cops jacking my expensive toy for "evidence" while a dude with a ski mask and crowbar is laying facedown infront of my bedroom door. ...plus my preference is for AK's so if the cops ever find that ill probably be thrown down on my face and cuffed cause im a man who fancies "evil criminal weapons."

And I wouldn't put it past law enforcement to seize EVERY gun in the house for "ballistic testing" to determine which one was actually used.

[mogunner]

Originally Posted by gvw3

My guns are all locked up in the safe. Not loaded. I have lived in my home for almost 30 years with no problems. I also have my nephews running around and they are nuts.

Lately I have been thinking of keeping my Beretta 92 in my nightstand. I live in a safe area with pd only 1/4 mile away but you never know.

Didn't know that Chicago had a "safe" area from the news...and if any of us knew exactly when and where we would need to have a firearm available it'd sure cut down on the holster wear on my Ruger.

My long guns are in the safe, full mags locked but no round chambered, but the wife and my pistols are always loaded and always on our person if we are awake, and on the nightstand on each side of the bed when we are asleep.

We also have six furry devils that would play heck with anyone's plans to move quickly through our house.

[ejkoechling]

Originally Posted by tcox4freedom

All guns SD/HD firearms loaded plus 1 all the time!

I have two kids. (10 & 12) Both know how to shoot & safely use a firearm. Both know where & when they can/cannot touch them.

Because of the time spent educating my kids (when they were younger) & taking away the "forbidden fruit" & "curiosity" factor, firearms are really a NON-issue for my kids. (They honestly could care LESS!!!)

But, fortunately, both have already made up their mind to CC when they are of legal age.

-

Originally Posted by norahc

Even with no children in the house, I do not keep my long guns chambered. Handguns are all chambered with full mags, but if I need to take the time to get to a long gun then I have time to chamber a round.

My grandson(5) is being taught. Last week he told on the neighbor kid because he pointed a play gun at him.
I was so proud

[WHSmithIV]

No kids in the house, they're all grown up - all guns loaded. 1911 has one in the chamber. All that's needed is to pull back the hammer.

[LRChops]

Originally Posted by velocity101

Do you guys keep your home defense AR or bullpup rifle with a round loaded in the chamber (and on safe) or empty but with full mag in the mag well?

A friend and I were debating over whether we'd be able to react to fast enough during a home invasion scenario with chambering a round properly under stress. I know that with my STG556, I need to fully pull back the charging handle and let it slam the round into the chamber or else it won't load properly and fire. If chambered incorrectly, I'd have to pull out the mag, then pull back the charging handle again and let it slam the round fully in... else it'll double-feed a round. In which case if a bad guy kicks down my door suddenly during a home invasion, I'd be screeewed!

You can react quickly without 1 in the chamber under stress if you train for it! Patrol officers who carry M4 rifles do not carry one in the chamber and have to activate the charging handle upon deployment. It's doable! Been in many stress situations where I had to deploy my M4 fast and put it into battery. Comes natural with training. Always train to kill and have the right mindset! You will be golden!