SHTF Weapon - Need Advice

[soundguy]

yep.. with all the milsurp out there.. even the non loadable stuff is nice.

I actually have a bit of a plan on my survival ammo stores.. but i'll start a seperate thread on it.

[mogunner]

Originally Posted by Redd

Thanks for all the input, especially Mogunner. I just ordered a Saiga 7.62x39 unconverted rifle, and the deal I got is about $200 less than my baseline (wife approved) budget!! I'll give a report when I take delivery and get to the range with it. Now I'll start researching AMMO!!!

If you decide to do the conversion drop me a line if you have any questions, I have pretty much 90% of the process in photos that I took while doing it. There's a couple of decent guides online but I found a couple of things missing out of the steps they had listed.

[targetacqmgt]

I used AR's in combat-I am NOT impressed. In REAL cold weather. Anything below 10degrees F- well the heat from firing AFTER ceasefire will cause the moisture in the air to condense and FREEZE-causing the locking lugs on the bolt face seems to be welded in the receiver. The Mini 14 on ther other hand uses a bolt system similar to the M-1 and M-14-which is easier to unstick if air moisture freezes on the bolt face or around the bolt. A round of ammo - using the point is a good scraping deicer. IMO

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by mogunner

If you decide to do the conversion drop me a line if you have any questions, I have pretty much 90% of the process in photos that I took while doing it. There's a couple of decent guides online but I found a couple of things missing out of the steps they had listed.

Careful of 7.62 X 39 ammo that uses metal that easily corrodes with moisture- I had some "silver" looking shell cases that became so pitted they were virtually unusable.

[soundguy]

i must have missed it.. what conversion?

[therewolf]

Look at it like this:

If you get a M44, you have only to bore out the butt stock,

and the cleaning tools will go behind the butt plate.

Then, not only is the rifle fully complete and self-contained,

but you'll be on the way to rounding out your Mosin

collection. Get a really good one, or you'll have a lifetime to

regret not spending that additional 80$...

[mogunner]

Originally Posted by soundguy

i must have missed it.. what conversion?

When the Russkies import the Saiga's they have to conform to a "sporting rifle" configuration. While they function fine in this setup, most people "convert" them back to the AK style setup by changing out certain parts for US made parts under 922r compliance restrictions. This is what they look like when they come into the States.



Change the stock, move the trigger group back forward where it was originally, add pistol grip and change handguard and you're good to go as far as being legal for 992r, you can also change the gas piston as yet another "changeable" part. With a small file you can take just a smidgeon off the mag latch and high capacity AK mags will fit but you have to also install a bullet guide as the front of the AK mags are a tad shorter than the plastic Saiga ones so the guide is used to tip the bullet nose up and into the chamber mouth. There's loads of options out there for parts.

Here's mine after conversion.

[soundguy]

neat thanks!

[carver]

Originally Posted by mogunner

When the Russkies import the Saiga's they have to conform to a "sporting rifle" configuration. While they function fine in this setup, most people "convert" them back to the AK style setup by changing out certain parts for US made parts under 922r compliance restrictions. This is what they look like when they come into the States.



Change the stock, move the trigger group back forward where it was originally, add pistol grip and change handguard and you're good to go as far as being legal for 992r, you can also change the gas piston as yet another "changeable" part. With a small file you can take just a smidgeon off the mag latch and high capacity AK mags will fit but you have to also install a bullet guide as the front of the AK mags are a tad shorter than the plastic Saiga ones so the guide is used to tip the bullet nose up and into the chamber mouth. There's loads of options out there for parts.

Here's mine after conversion.

I'm running the stock Saigia in .308, 25 rd. mags. It's a little on the heavy side, but I love it!

[JLA]

Originally Posted by ozo

http://www.thelibertyman.com/the_krinker_plinker.php

I did Josh, but I gave it to my Daughter.

Manufacturer: C&S Metall-Werkes KRINKER
Item: RGR-025

Transform your Ruger 10/22 into an AK-47 Krinkov!

The Krinker-Plinker is a complete conversion kit for your Ruger 10/22 to turn it into a miniature AKS-74U Krinkov. This is not just a cheap drop in plastic stock, but a true transformation using original military AK 74 parts and stamped, molded, cast and CNC machined pieces. Installation is simple, just remove the stock and barrel from your 10/22 and install the kit. It takes about 20 minutes.

Works with your 10/22!

The Krinker Plinker works with all semi automatic and full auto Ruger 10/22 rifles. Your original receiver, bolt and trigger pack (semi or automatic) are installed in the kit without modification.

Superb Quality!!

The Krinker Plinker kits are built completely in the C&S Metall-Werkes Limited shop using state of the art CNC machines.

Specifications and Features:
Stamped steel chassis with Black-T finish
Authentic AKS-74U Krinkov folding stock
16" heavy match-grade barrel with 1/2" X 28 threads and slip over fake suppressor
Authentic AK-74 black synthetic pistol grip and lower forearm
Picatinny Rail lower forearm with removable side rails
Upgraded sight set with fully adjustable rear aperture and protected post front sight
CNC machined Picatinny rail for use with optics
Extended magazine release
Beautiful dark satin black oxide finish on all steel parts
Beautiful dark satin black hardcoat anodize finish on all aluminum parts
Detailed and easy to follow installation instructions complete with photos

For warranty issues contact C&S Metall-Werkes Ltd..
KEN CHOATE (636) 928-1511
info@csm-w.com

Thanks Jona. I got the link saved already. I just wanna try to score one used and cheaper off somebody that dont want it anymore

[mogunner]

Originally Posted by carver

I'm running the stock Saigia in .308, 25 rd. mags. It's a little on the heavy side, but I love it!

Yep, mine tips the scale at 10.2 lbs with the 30 round mags.

[jedwil]

Originally Posted by JLA

Thanks Jona. I got the link saved already. I just wanna try to score one used and cheaper off somebody that dont want it anymore

Seems pretty pricey to me.........I personally like some of the M1 Carbine stock conversions I've seen for the 10/22. Thinking about it, I'm just not an AK fan.

[JLA]

I got one of those John. Picked it up complete for 160 bucks. The stock kit alone goes for 100+.. I bought it for the wife.

[ka64]

Heres my choices.............

[Redd]

Does anyone know of a good place to read up on 922R, if I get the 30 round mags does that make it non compliant even if it's unconverted?

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by gun runner

To tell you the truth , you should get a 12 gauge semi auto filled with 00 buckshot with a a flashlight somewhere on it. Also the extra shotshell holster on the stock. Most likely you wont need just 1 right shot and the threat will be over. Good Luck with what you buy. Hopefully nothing bad ever happens but you never know when some idiot wants to invade your house.

#2 shot is better.

[mogunner]

Originally Posted by Redd

Does anyone know of a good place to read up on 922R, if I get the 30 round mags does that make it non compliant even if it's unconverted?

Yep, it sure does. Mags count as three parts in the 922r scheme, but there are companies who make followers and floorplates for the AK mags if for some reason you don't want to do a standard conversion. Trigger group is 3 parts, stock, pistol grip, gas piston, handguard, muzzle device, each count as one, on the AK/Saiga you need to install at least 6 USA made parts that are on the 922r checklist. So if you want to use AK mags, install a trigger group (not all that difficult), stock, pistol grip and a gas piston and you're good to go, I did the handguard as I just didn't care for the standard one.

Here's a link to a good reference checklist:
http://gunwiki.net/Gunwiki/BuildAkVerifyCompliance

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by GunnyGene

#2 shot is better.

Why use #2 shot?? Because will not damage interior of home? Not penetrate walls?? But still take out the bad guy???

[JLA]

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

Why use #2 shot?? Because will not damage interior of home? Not penetrate walls?? But still take out the bad guy???

More pellets yet still big enough to do maximum damage..

I personally prefer #4 BUCK for HD. 21 .22 cal pellets in a 2 3/4" load at 1400 fps. Thats about equal to 21 shots from a .22 LR handgun ALL AT ONCE!

BTW, there is a difference between #2 BUCK and #2 SHOT. BUCK SHOT gets bigger the smaller the number goes.. SHOT is the other way around. And where Shot leaves off at BBB (steel ~.20 cal) #4 BUCK picks up with .22 cal pellets.

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by JLA

More pellets yet still big enough to do maximum damage..

I personally prefer #4 BUCK for HD. 21 .22 cal pellets in a 2 3/4" load at 1400 fps. Thats about equal to 21 shots from a .22 LR handgun ALL AT ONCE!

BTW, there is a difference between #2 BUCK and #2 SHOT. BUCK SHOT gets bigger the smaller the number goes.. SHOT is the other way around. And where Shot leaves off at BBB (steel ~.20 cal) #4 BUCK picks up with .22 cal pellets.

yeah and I suppose with #4 buck the Local procecutor can't say you used "excessive force" where 00 buck and slugs don't leave to much meat for the forensic folks to ID

[GunnyGene]

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

Why use #2 shot?? Because will not damage interior of home? Not penetrate walls?? But still take out the bad guy???

What JLA said. With more pellets you get a slightly larger pattern (especially with a really short barrel ), so you don't need to be as careful with aim - just point it in the general direction, and you'll hit 'em with enough lead to put 'em down. And I did mean #2 shot, not buck, but either one works. PS: #2 shot has about 87 lead pellets of .150 dia. (12 gage) . Good for up to 20yds or so.

[jack404]

no two is what the knee cappers used out here get hit with enough of the shot and it tears the hide right off you , strip a leg bone clean on a man at 12 feet and the bone will be holy too

[SmallCaliberGuy]

With all the firepower mentioned, don't forget to pick up one weapon real cheap and one that would come in handy in a SHTF situation.......a slingshot!!

Good for hunting and generally wreaking havoc on the bad guys.


Jody

[gun runner]

Why not a fully automatic machine gun?

[Recon 173]

I live in a place where I can almost expect to see an attack similar to the one that hurt Reginald Denny years ago. I don't need that kind of injury so I've been thinking about such an issue and ways to keep myself safe. About the best things I have come up with, after a long research, are the possibility of using:

1. Marlin .44 magnum lever action saddle carbine.
2. M-1 carbine.
3. An AK type rifle with a folding stock with a red dot on top of it.
4. A Kel Tec Sub 2000 type rifle.

I've looked at all 3 calibers that the AK rifles come in and determined that the 7.62 X 39 could be the better defense cartridge for close range work. I am leaning towards getting another AK type rifle in the 7.62 X 39 configuration with a folding stock and mounting a red dot sight on top for defensive high speed shooting scenarios. A decent rifle backed up by a good pistol which is backed up by a sheath knife should take care of any kind of potential attackers no matter how close things get to me. I used this same set-up in Viet Nam and made it through a long tour of duty over there.