"Cavim" 308 AMMO - The Firearms Forum

Squeak · 10-24-2012, 01:02 PM

A number of years ago I bought 1000 rounds of Cavim 308 ammo from a mail order house.
I shot some of this stuff in my M1A, and it seemed to be VERY hot. So much so that I never shot any more of it because I did'nt want to punish my rifle.

Does anybody out there know anything about Cavim ammo & is it safe to shoot without punshing the gun? Does it make sense that this might be machine gun ammo? Does a plastic recoil buffer do any good in a case like this?
What is your opinion of recoil buffers?

Jim K · 10-24-2012, 01:18 PM

I had a batch of that in .308, about 300 rounds and shot it in an M1A; it seemed OK, about the same as US GI. Of course that was several years ago and I am sure was a different lot.

I have never used a buffer in an M14 type rifle, so I can't say how well they work. The gas trap and expansion system of the M14 won't allow too much in the way of excessive pressures.

Jim

Jim

targetacqmgt · 10-24-2012, 01:22 PM

Umm I just read a response on ASK.com to your question- Confirmed reports that the south american ammo leaves "hard to get rid of residue" on your weapons internal parts.

If I did not know any better I would say the powder contains corrosive chemicals with a combination of cordite. BUT JLA would have a more definitive answer for you,

Alpo · 10-24-2012, 01:52 PM

The "hard to get rid of residue" is bullet sealant. Cavim uses (used?) a tar-like sealant. When there was a lot of Cavim around, it was being sold as "NOT FOR USE IN HK RIFLES". This was because the sealant residue clogged the flutes in the chambers, leading to excess pressure.

Many years ago I bought a case of PMC 7.62 ball. Played with it a little bit.

Went out one day with two friends.

Friend #1 had a Mossberg bolt-action 308 rifle. After firing one round, we could not get the bolt handle up. Had to beat it up with a block of wood. Once we got the handle up, the shell ejected fine. There were no visible signs of excess pressure. He declined to shoot any more of it.

Friend #2 had a Remington 788 in 308. Both I and friend #2 laughed at friend #3 for having that cheap crappy Mossberg. Then friend #2 shot. Bolt handle came up fine. Bolt would not move back. Using the same block of wood, we tapped on the bolt handle until it started back. Then it came back easily, the empty ejected fine. No visible signs of pressure. HE declined to shoot any more of it.

I laughed at both of them, for having them cheap, crappy rifles, as I lifted my Steyr Model L 308 bolt action and fired. The fireball I saw in the scope blotted out the sun. Bolt handle lifted smoothly. Bolt came back, ejected empty case. No visible signs of excess pressure. I laughed some more. Ha ha ha. Cheap crappy rifles. Ha ha ha. I continued to fire. On round #3 the L/H arm of the crosshairs on my Redfield 6X scope fell off.

I decided to not shoot any more of it either.

Couple of years later my brother asked me if I still had that PMC ball. I told him this story, hitting strongly on how it locked up two guns and made the crosshairs fall off my Redfield scope. He said his gun would take it. So I sold it to him.

Springfield M1A. Far as I know, he had no problems.

My point is that the M1A is apparently a strong gun.

Oh, and "machine gun ammo" is nonsense. All "NATO ammo" is loaded to "NATO spec". Only difference between "machine gun ammo" and "rifle ammo" is machine gun ammo is on a belt. It's all the same.

targetacqmgt · 10-24-2012, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

The "hard to get rid of residue" is bullet sealant. Cavim uses (used?) a tar-like sealant. When there was a lot of Cavim around, it was being sold as "NOT FOR USE IN HK RIFLES". This was because the sealant residue clogged the flutes in the chambers, leading to excess pressure.

Many years ago I bought a case of PMC 7.62 ball. Played with it a little bit.

Went out one day with two friends.

Friend #1 had a Mossberg bolt-action 308 rifle. After firing one round, we could not get the bolt handle up. Had to beat it up with a block of wood. Once we got the handle up, the shell ejected fine. There were no visible signs of excess pressure. He declined to shoot any more of it.

Friend #2 had a Remington 788 in 308. Both I and friend #2 laughed at friend #3 for having that cheap crappy Mossberg. Then friend #2 shot. Bolt handle came up fine. Bolt would not move back. Using the same block of wood, we tapped on the bolt handle until it started back. Then it came back easily, the empty ejected fine. No visible signs of pressure. HE declined to shoot any more of it.

I laughed at both of them, for having them cheap, crappy rifles, as I lifted my Steyr Model L 308 bolt action and fired. The fireball I saw in the scope blotted out the sun. Bolt handle lifted smoothly. Bolt came back, ejected empty case. No visible signs of excess pressure. I laughed some more. Ha ha ha. Cheap crappy rifles. Ha ha ha. I continued to fire. On round #3 the L/H arm of the crosshairs on my Redfield 6X scope fell off.

I decided to not shoot any more of it either.

Couple of years later my brother asked me if I still had that PMC ball. I told him this story, hitting strongly on how it locked up two guns and made the crosshairs fall off my Redfield scope. He said his gun would take it. So I sold it to him.

Springfield M1A. Far as I know, he had no problems.

My point is that the M1A is apparently a strong gun.

Oh, and "machine gun ammo" is nonsense. All "NATO ammo" is loaded to "NATO spec". Only difference between "machine gun ammo" and "rifle ammo" is machine gun ammo is on a belt. It's all the same.

Holy Cr@p batman!!!!!!!!!!!

Jim K · 10-24-2012, 06:27 PM

All note that PMC is not CAVIM.

Jim

Alpo · 10-24-2012, 08:34 PM

True. Wasn't trying to imply it was. Just that I had some stuff I thought was overloaded, and my brother's M1A ate it up. Strong gun.

JLA · 10-24-2012, 09:18 PM

Run it over a chronograph and compare the results to load data for that bullet weight. Thatll let you know if its loaded hot. Chance are its gonna be ok to shoot in your M1A, they are pretty robust rifles and can take a bit of abuse.

jlloyd73 · 10-25-2012, 02:03 AM

I picked up a bunch of that brass (like 100) at a gun show for $9. I have heard all the same stuff, but I have also heard that the brass is awesome to reload with after the initial round has been spent. I still don't have the dies to do .308, but I am looking forward to using that brass.

B27 · 10-25-2012, 02:28 AM

Milspec 7.62x51 is NOT .308 Winchester just as milspec 5.56 is not .223.

targetacqmgt · 10-25-2012, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B27

Milspec 7.62x51 is NOT .308 Winchester just as milspec 5.56 is not .223.

ok fine what is the diff??

Carne Frio · 10-25-2012, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by targetacqmgt

ok fine what is the diff??

Here is one explanation of the diff.
http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html
Here is another one.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5154413AAqrYDu

Squeak · 10-25-2012, 08:56 AM

JLA: good idea about the crony. I don't have one, but my next door neighbor does - - - and also a 100 yard range to go with it!
Gonna have to do that. Doesn't sound like it'll hurt my M1A.
Thanks to all for info.

targetacqmgt · 10-25-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carne Frio

Here is one explanation of the diff.
http://how-i-did-it.org/762vs308/chamber.html
Here is another one.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...5154413AAqrYDu

Thanks

I ordered a 308/7.62 X 51 gauge AND a springfield 30-06 gauge !!!
I will use to check ALL of my milspec ammo.

jim brady · 10-25-2012, 08:54 PM

Just a little 'chirp' from the peanut gallery. I used to shoot my M1A a whole lot, and reload my own ammo to M80 GI specs. That CAVIM brass is very hard brass - at least the lot of 300 that I had on hand. I've never had any problems with GI LC brass, but that CAVIM stuff was really bad. I ended up pitching all of it. I had several stick in the chamber on firing. Never had this happen in any of the 1000s that I've reloaded and shot useing LC brass. I could feel the difference when re-sizing it.

10-24-2012, 01:52 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,658	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO The "hard to get rid of residue" is bullet sealant. Cavim uses (used?) a tar-like sealant. When there was a lot of Cavim around, it was being sold as "NOT FOR USE IN HK RIFLES". This was because the sealant residue clogged the flutes in the chambers, leading to excess pressure. Many years ago I bought a case of PMC 7.62 ball. Played with it a little bit. Went out one day with two friends. Friend #1 had a Mossberg bolt-action 308 rifle. After firing one round, we could not get the bolt handle up. Had to beat it up with a block of wood. Once we got the handle up, the shell ejected fine. There were no visible signs of excess pressure. He declined to shoot any more of it. Friend #2 had a Remington 788 in 308. Both I and friend #2 laughed at friend #3 for having that cheap crappy Mossberg. Then friend #2 shot. Bolt handle came up fine. Bolt would not move back. Using the same block of wood, we tapped on the bolt handle until it started back. Then it came back easily, the empty ejected fine. No visible signs of pressure. HE declined to shoot any more of it. I laughed at both of them, for having them cheap, crappy rifles, as I lifted my Steyr Model L 308 bolt action and fired. The fireball I saw in the scope blotted out the sun. Bolt handle lifted smoothly. Bolt came back, ejected empty case. No visible signs of excess pressure. I laughed some more. Ha ha ha. Cheap crappy rifles. Ha ha ha. I continued to fire. On round #3 the L/H arm of the crosshairs on my Redfield 6X scope fell off. I decided to not shoot any more of it either. Couple of years later my brother asked me if I still had that PMC ball. I told him this story, hitting strongly on how it locked up two guns and made the crosshairs fall off my Redfield scope. He said his gun would take it. So I sold it to him. Springfield M1A. Far as I know, he had no problems. My point is that the M1A is apparently a strong gun. Oh, and "machine gun ammo" is nonsense. All "NATO ammo" is loaded to "NATO spec". Only difference between "machine gun ammo" and "rifle ammo" is machine gun ammo is on a belt. It's all the same. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-24-2012, 06:27 PM	#6
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO All note that PMC is not CAVIM. Jim

10-24-2012, 08:34 PM	#7
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,658	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO True. Wasn't trying to imply it was. Just that I had some stuff I thought was overloaded, and my brother's M1A ate it up. Strong gun. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

10-24-2012, 09:18 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,315	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO Run it over a chronograph and compare the results to load data for that bullet weight. Thatll let you know if its loaded hot. Chance are its gonna be ok to shoot in your M1A, they are pretty robust rifles and can take a bit of abuse. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-25-2012, 02:03 AM	#9
jlloyd73 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Contributor Posts: 1,931	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO I picked up a bunch of that brass (like 100) at a gun show for $9. I have heard all the same stuff, but I have also heard that the brass is awesome to reload with after the initial round has been spent. I still don't have the dies to do .308, but I am looking forward to using that brass. __________________ --------------------------------------------------- The only thing better than good family is good friends. J and D Lloyd Get ready...it's getting "real" and really fast!

10-24-2012, 01:02 PM	#1
Squeak V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Illinois (near Chigago) Posts: 121	"Cavim" 308 AMMO A number of years ago I bought 1000 rounds of Cavim 308 ammo from a mail order house. I shot some of this stuff in my M1A, and it seemed to be VERY hot. So much so that I never shot any more of it because I did'nt want to punish my rifle. Does anybody out there know anything about Cavim ammo & is it safe to shoot without punshing the gun? Does it make sense that this might be machine gun ammo? Does a plastic recoil buffer do any good in a case like this? What is your opinion of recoil buffers? -->

10-24-2012, 01:18 PM	#2
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO I had a batch of that in .308, about 300 rounds and shot it in an M1A; it seemed OK, about the same as US GI. Of course that was several years ago and I am sure was a different lot. I have never used a buffer in an M14 type rifle, so I can't say how well they work. The gas trap and expansion system of the M14 won't allow too much in the way of excessive pressures. Jim Jim

10-24-2012, 01:22 PM	#3
targetacqmgt Registered User Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 494	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO Umm I just read a response on ASK.com to your question- Confirmed reports that the south american ammo leaves "hard to get rid of residue" on your weapons internal parts. If I did not know any better I would say the powder contains corrosive chemicals with a combination of cordite. BUT JLA would have a more definitive answer for you,

10-25-2012, 02:28 AM	#10
B27 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Atlanta, GA Posts: 415	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO Milspec 7.62x51 is NOT .308 Winchester just as milspec 5.56 is not .223. __________________ "Do not stand beside the road and argue with a fool...lest others in passing take you also for a fool."

10-25-2012, 08:56 AM	#13
Squeak V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Illinois (near Chigago) Posts: 121	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO JLA: good idea about the crony. I don't have one, but my next door neighbor does - - - and also a 100 yard range to go with it! Gonna have to do that. Doesn't sound like it'll hurt my M1A. Thanks to all for info.

10-25-2012, 08:54 PM	#15
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,072	Re: "Cavim" 308 AMMO Just a little 'chirp' from the peanut gallery. I used to shoot my M1A a whole lot, and reload my own ammo to M80 GI specs. That CAVIM brass is very hard brass - at least the lot of 300 that I had on hand. I've never had any problems with GI LC brass, but that CAVIM stuff was really bad. I ended up pitching all of it. I had several stick in the chamber on firing. Never had this happen in any of the 1000s that I've reloaded and shot useing LC brass. I could feel the difference when re-sizing it. Last edited by jim brady; 10-25-2012 at 08:57 PM..