SA vs. DA...my love affair with SIGs ends...

[B27]

I once was just batcrap crazy about SIGs.
And I still do appreciate them.

But I have decided that the DA auto is a solution for a problem that does not exist.
At least not for civilian concealed carry users.

I'd rather carry a cocked and locked 1911 or HiPower any day now than a SIG...or Glock....or Springfield or whatever.

[Alpo]

Welcome to the wise words of Jeff Cooper. "Double action automatics are an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."

Welcome aboard.

[B27]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Welcome to the wise words of Jeff Cooper. "Double action automatics are an ingenious solution to a non-existent problem."

Welcome aboard.

Thanks.

Until recently I owned 14 SIGs of which half were P220s in .45 ACP.

Most have been traded in on various milsurp rifles and S&W revolvers.
But i still have a couple of those P220s and I like them very much.

But I will no longer be carrying them concealed.
For that a 1911 or HiPower suits me much better.
It's faster, just as safe, and I am much more likely to score a hit with my first shot than with a "crunchenticker".

[LDBennett]

I am a target shooter/plinker and don't "carry" and have little use for a Double action trigger but.....

One of the professional tactical handgun shooters wins matches with a double action revolver all the time and has for years. Double action shooting can be effective if you practice enough.

Some of the best guns made are SIG's in my opinion. While I have and like 1911's and Browning HiPowers, if I had to carry it would be a SIG (my P225). In a gun fight there is an end to it. With the my SIG P220 and P225 I can easily de-cock it to make the gun totally safe again. Then if I need to use it again, I just pull the trigger. I never use or have any use for a safety like on the 1911 or the Hi-Power. I don't trust that they will always be safe or not get brushed off and make the gun un-safe. But hey, we all get to choose what we feel is best for each of us.

While I don't subscribe to collecting anything other than guns to shoot (with no focus), your rationalization of why you are dumping your SIGs seems a bit short sighted to me but that's just me and you get to choose, not me.

LDBennett

[Alpo]

You want "short-sighted"? I don't have any Sigs, and never have had, for a simple (and I mean SIMPLE) reason.

The control are backwards.

Every single automatic pistol I have has two controls over on the left side. The rear one is the safety and/or decocker. The front one is the slide stop. With Sigs it is reversed.

Now, I am sure that I could learn to work a Sig. I have both single and double actions, both automatics and revolvers. They all work different, and I manage to shoot them without hurting myself. But, with perfectly fine 1911s and Brownings around, why bother to go through another learning curve?

[gdmoody]

If you don't want your Sigs, let me know and I will PM my address to you. I will take them and provide a loving home for them.

[soundguy]

i absolutely love my 230 if i need to squeeze on eoff after decock.. just pull trigger or cock it and fire sa

what's the big deal about that?

my decock is rear left.. seems normal?

[CampingJosh]

I dislike mechanical safeties, so I appreciate the DA/SA autos. To each his own.

[soundguy]

for some reason i distrust mechaincal safeties more than decockers. dunno why.. but I have 'tested' my decockers a few ties accidentally and now trust them..

[Alpo]

Funny. Rear left on this one is the slide stop.

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Funny. Rear left on this one is the slide stop.

that doesn't look like a 230?

this pic happes to be a 232.. but is same gun as a 230 essentially

[LDBennett]

The post said he had mostly the P220 series SIGs.

For a defense gun I suppose the training for one set of controls makes it hard for ones reversed. But as I only shoot for fun at targets and field target (slowly) the switch of the controls makes little difference to me. My defense gun (a P225) is loaded with a mag with nothing in the chamber and I'll have to rack the slide to use it but to me the safety of an empty chamber is more important than being ready to fire instantly. I hope to never use it and I lock myself in my house with a burglar alarm with a very loud outside alarm speaker that the neighbors are sure to notice. Hopefully the loud noise will scare anyone away attempting to break in. My gun is the last resort not the first resort so I should have plenty of time to rack it. While my neighborhood is not super safe it is safe enough and I really never expect to be burglarized at least while I'm inside the house. But I suppose anything is possible.

LDBennett

[soundguy]

not owning a 225 it seem the 'left' comment was implying that it may have been ont he right. I wsn't aware of a right decocker.. which is why i made the comment of left rearish seeming normal to me. no slide lock on a 230..so it's decocker is left rear most lever..

[CCHolderinMaine]

You can have both. Do what I did, buy a Sig 1911. I have a 1911STX and I couldn't be happier with it.

[LDBennett]

SIG 1911 are 1911's not "SIG's", to my way of thinking.

The first of the series, the P220, originally imported by Browning with Brownings name on it in both 9mm and 45ACP, was a unique gun. The slide was made of a sheet metal stamping, welded up with an insert for the breech. The barrels were very accurate and well fitted to the slide. The barrel lockup was a block of steel as part of the barrel that engaged deeply all the front edge of the ejection port, not a series of groves and lands on the barrel top with very little engagement in their mates in the slide top. Loose breech is a common semi-auto malady and SIG P220 series guns is one of the few guns that has virtually zero out of the box. What loose breech allows is the barrel to get a run on the slide and the locking lugs on the barrel will get so beat up the gun will no longer lock closed correctly. Unless the barrel hood on a 1911 is fitted (usually requires welding on the hood and filing or machining for a close fit) most 1911 suffer loose breech or at least the beginnings of it.

The look and feel of the guns were exceptional as was the fit and finish. The P220 is a single column gun with a grip I can get my smallish hands around. The mags are well made, all steel and feed perfectly. The weight is about perfect and lighter than a 1911 (better for me).

While I like the 1911's and have a couple my self, the Sig P220 series is a modern design, using modern processes, that ends up with a better gun , design wise, in my judgement.

Now, the recent ones no longer have the stamped and welded up slide and are no longer made in Austria. Are they as good as the earlier version? I don't know and don't care as my two SIGS are both earlier version and I love them dearly. It boggles my mind that anyone would want to sell an earlier one.

Today they are very expensive and they were when I started buying guns in the mid 1980's. When most centerfire semi-autos were under $500, the P220's were $750 and up. I found my 45ACP P220 at a gun show used in the mid 1990's. It had one magazine of ammo shot through it and the price was very right. The P225 I got when I had a FFL on a distributor sale for a song a few years later. In those days those were the only ways I could afford a SIG. Glad I got them!!!

LDBennett

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by soundguy

that doesn't look like a 230?

this pic happes to be a 232.. but is same gun as a 230 essentially

Couldn't tell you. I don't do Sigs. Everyone I've handled, which have all been full-size holster guns, not pocket pistols - have had controls like the one I pictured.

If we are going to talk pocket-pistols, why do I need a Sig PPK-copy, when I have a PPK?

[soundguy]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Couldn't tell you. I don't do Sigs. Everyone I've handled, which have all been full-size holster guns, not pocket pistols - have had controls like the one I pictured.

If we are going to talk pocket-pistols, why do I need a Sig PPK-copy, when I have a PPK?

the 230 / 232 are by NO MEANS pocket guns. the 232, like the 230 that I have, is a full size, holsterable gun... and only has that control that you see.. etc. That was my point.

the gun is MUCH larger than my keltec P32 or P3AT.

that 230 is larger than my t85 38 revolver.. or my smith 38 revolver.

[soundguy]

almost 7" long at about 18oz unloaded

[CCHolderinMaine]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

SIG 1911 are 1911's not "SIG's", to my way of thinking.

The first of the series, the P220, originally imported by Browning with Brownings name on it in both 9mm and 45ACP, was a unique gun. The slide was made of a sheet metal stamping, welded up with an insert for the breech. The barrels were very accurate and well fitted to the slide. The barrel lockup was a block of steel as part of the barrel that engaged deeply all the front edge of the ejection port, not a series of groves and lands on the barrel top with very little engagement in their mates in the slide top. Loose breech is a common semi-auto malady and SIG P220 series guns is one of the few guns that has virtually zero out of the box. What loose breech allows is the barrel to get a run on the slide and the locking lugs on the barrel will get so beat up the gun will no longer lock closed correctly. Unless the barrel hood on a 1911 is fitted (usually requires welding on the hood and filing or machining for a close fit) most 1911 suffer loose breech or at least the beginnings of it.

The look and feel of the guns were exceptional as was the fit and finish. The P220 is a single column gun with a grip I can get my smallish hands around. The mags are well made, all steel and feed perfectly. The weight is about perfect and lighter than a 1911 (better for me).

While I like the 1911's and have a couple my self, the Sig P220 series is a modern design, using modern processes, that ends up with a better gun , design wise, in my judgement.

Now, the recent ones no longer have the stamped and welded up slide and are no longer made in Austria. Are they as good as the earlier version? I don't know and don't care as my two SIGS are both earlier version and I love them dearly. It boggles my mind that anyone would want to sell an earlier one.

Today they are very expensive and they were when I started buying guns in the mid 1980's. When most centerfire semi-autos were under $500, the P220's were $750 and up. I found my 45ACP P220 at a gun show used in the mid 1990's. It had one magazine of ammo shot through it and the price was very right. The P225 I got when I had a FFL on a distributor sale for a song a few years later. In those days those were the only ways I could afford a SIG. Glad I got them!!!

LDBennett

I'd have to agree about Sig 1911's being more 1911 than Sig, I was just trying to give a literal solution to the op's shocking relinquishment of the Sig faith. As a matter of fact I just walked inside (yes, I can shoot right in my yard ) from shooting 150 through my P226. IMHO I like the 226 better than the 1911 (or just about any other pistol I've shot). Probably more that it just fits me, it just feels so intuitive and natural.

[B27]

I think some may be not understanding my feelings about SIGs.

I had 14.

I now have...

P220 .45 ACP 2
P220 .38 Super 1
P228 9mm 1
P226 9mm 1
P226 357 SIG 1
P229 Sport 357 SIG 1

I've got no problem with SIGs or with DA autos....I'd just prefer to have something else in a gun fight.

[BETH]

sig u have a problem