Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 - The Firearms Forum

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 09:20 AM

Just thought I'd let everyone know that I received a call from the Chattanooga Police department saying they had recovered my pistol. I had started a thread a while back about this and received tons of support from you guys (http://thefirearmsforum.com/showthre...=stolen+kimber)

Unfortunately, the robbery suspect they found the gun with had filed the serial numbers off of it. They were able to identify the gun by some numbers on internal parts and by the accessories (Holster, etc) that were stolen with the gun. The most unfortunate part about this is apparently TN state law says that any weapon with the serial numbers removed is considered a "Non-releasable" weapon and must be destroyed! If you read the original thread, you'd know this gun was 4 days old when it was stolen and is still practically brand new other than the numbers being filed off. Destroy it? Really? And the detective said he's talked to Kimber and they CAN take it back and fix the serial number issue, but the law says it cannot be released from custody, so they can't do it! He has a meeting with the ATF on Friday and is planning to go over all this with them, but it sounds like I'll still be the victim and the gun will be toast. That almost pisses me off more than it getting stolen in the first place! I thought our laws were supposed to protect the victim?

Sorry for the rant....

Here's a picture...

gdmoody · 10-31-2012, 09:25 AM

Man, sorry to hear that. It is almost like it is being stolen from you a second time. Hopefully the detective can talk a little sense into the ATF guy he talks with.

woolleyworm · 10-31-2012, 09:36 AM

I don't see what the police could not send it to Kimber have them fix it and then send it back to them and then release it to you. a lot of paperwork and run around, but at least you'd have your gun back.
Did they give you any details about the recovery?

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 09:50 AM

"Did they give you any details about the recovery?"

Oh yeah. The detective was very happy to tell me all about how they took down the robbery suspect. Apparently they had staked out a local motel for hours and the guy never showed up so they went in his room and searched it. They didn't find anything there and the entire group left except te detective and another officer. He said they were just standing around talking when the suspect pulled up in a car matching the description of a getaway car in a robbery, so they surrounded to car and I quote "Took him down." They found the gun between his feet in the front floor of the car and he had my holster clipped to his side. Evidently he told the police he didn't steal it, he just bought it from another guy off the street.

I was hoping this would lead to the the thief too b/c I had a bunch of other stuff stolen from my truck along with the gun.

Double D · 10-31-2012, 10:03 AM

This stinks. If nothing else, they should allow you to have everything but the frame and you could buy a frame from Kimber or someone else and build another gun. I wish you the best, keep us informed.

pkcgbifaid · 10-31-2012, 10:56 AM

I know for a fact that the ATF allows for the restamping of serial numbers in cases like this, but it sounds like it's the state law that messes that up.

Since by federal law the part with the serial number is the "firearm" and the rest is just "parts", I would do like Double D says and see if nothing else they will let you strip all the parts and let them destroy the frame since that is the "firearm".

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 11:47 AM

Yeah, I definately plan to ask if I can strip the gun if it indeed must be destroyed. I have a police friend who told me it is very unlikely that they will let me have the barrel either. So the idea of building another one gets a little more complicated than just buying a new frame. Plus, he said it would be foolish of me to keep the barrel in the event the guy has used it in a homicide or something and the police don't know it yet. If so, the ballistics would still match to my gun and could potentially cause problems in the future.

Either way, I definately would want everything else I could get off of it (grips, sights, mags, springs, slide, etc)

There's another part to all of this to that I discussed in the older thread. Because I am a life member with the NRA, I received a reimbursement check from the NRA for the value of the gun less a $100 deductable. So technically, the gun now belongs to the NRA. However, I still have the option to give the money back to the NRA and keep the gun IF the police department can work something out where I can get it re-serialed. But if it does have to be destroyed, I don't see why the NRA would care for me getting the parts off of it. I need to call them and find out.

Anyone on here work for the NRA and know the answer to that?

ozo · 10-31-2012, 11:55 AM

Don't be stealin' the NRA's stuff.....

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 11:59 AM

How is it it stealing if I get their permission OR pay back the reimbursement?

I'm not a thief!

WHSmithIV · 10-31-2012, 12:12 PM

If the NRA covered the gun for you minus the $100 wouldn't it be cheaper in time and effort to simply buy a new one. Seems like you'll spend more than $100 worth of time trying to deal with getting the stolen one back.

Just thought a little more - if the detective will at least let you have the grips from it and your holster then you're out even less than $100.

jjmitchell60 · 10-31-2012, 12:22 PM

You might get by with having an attorney make amotion before the judge in the case to have the gun sent back to Kimber. NOW with that said, you are actually spending more money than what a new one will cost you. IF you are only out $100 on it from getting insurance money or what ever, then cut your losses and run. Buy a new one with the insurance money. Even better, find a nice used one and maybe get it for waht you got in insurance (NRA money) IMHO.

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 02:10 PM

I don't disagree that it may not be worth my time to try and get this one back, but it is more principle than anything. I really would hate to see a $1500 gun get destroyed because some crack-head decided to file the serial numbers off of it. IF the NRA were to take possesion of the gun, they would raffle it off to raise money for their cause and get back some if not all the money they gave me. IF I can get it back by having Kimber re-serial it and giving the NRA their money back (not sure what Kimber would charge to do this) then at least it's not getting destroyed. IF it has to be destroyed AND THE NRA APPROVES of it, then I'll try to obtain all the parts I can to make up for the $100 I'm out for the deductable.

To me, it's just a huge injustice to me or the NRA to have the thing destroyed and I'd like to prevent that from happening. That's all..

Double D · 10-31-2012, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuburnAlum15

I don't disagree that it may not be worth my time to try and get this one back, but it is more principle than anything. I really would hate to see a $1500 gun get destroyed because some crack-head decided to file the serial numbers off of it. IF the NRA were to take possesion of the gun, they would raffle it off to raise money for their cause and get back some if not all the money they gave me. IF I can get it back by having Kimber re-serial it and giving the NRA their money back (not sure what Kimber would charge to do this) then at least it's not getting destroyed. IF it has to be destroyed AND THE NRA APPROVES of it, then I'll try to obtain all the parts I can to make up for the $100 I'm out for the deductable.

To me, it's just a huge injustice to me or the NRA to have the thing destroyed and I'd like to prevent that from happening. That's all..

Im right there with ya. I would try to get it if I could.

jedwil · 10-31-2012, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuburnAlum15

How is it it stealing if I get their permission OR pay back the reimbursement?

I'm not a thief!

A number of years ago, I had some guns stolen. I had insurance through both the NRA and a regular homeowner's policy and I was compensated by them for the loss. I forget which was the primary but when my pricey Colt Sauer was recovered and ready for return (a few years had elapsed), the PD stated that technically the rifle belonged to the insurance company and I would have to reach an agreement with them. I negotiated an amount to repay them and they sent a release to the PD. Fortunately, I had no serial number issue.

gvw3 · 10-31-2012, 03:45 PM

In one way it's still good news. Your gun is no longer in the hands of a criminal who may kill some one with it. And he will pay for his crime. I had my guns stolen in 1981. Never was reimbursed for the loss and never recovered any of them.

That is one beautiful gun. Will you be getting one just like it if you don't get the old one back?

firefighter1635 · 10-31-2012, 03:55 PM

Glad they recovered the gun from the streets but it's unfortunate about the law. After your original post on this I contacted my insurance agent about my firearms. My policy only covers up to $1500.00 of stolen firearms, heck i've got single guns worth more than that. To top it off he tells me I can buy aditional for $30.00 more per $100.00 of coverage

.

AuburnAlum15 · 10-31-2012, 04:04 PM

"That is one beautiful gun. Will you be getting one just like it if you don't get the old one back?"

Yes, but Kimber makes each of their models in weird production runs, so it's kind of hard to find a Raptor II Stainless model like mine.

firefighter1635:

For that rate per coverage, I think it's cheaper to pay for additional coverage through the NRA. You may want to check with them....

firefighter1635 · 10-31-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuburnAlum15

"That is one beautiful gun. Will you be getting one just like it if you don't get the old one back?"

Yes, but Kimber makes each of their models in weird production runs, so it's kind of hard to find a Raptor II Stainless model like mine.

firefighter1635:

For that rate per coverage, I think it's cheaper to pay for additional coverage through the NRA. You may want to check with them....

Yup going to.

soundguy · 10-31-2012, 04:16 PM

i'm a principle kind of guy myself.

the 'can't be released' story has holes in it.

I bet it could be released and sent to.. say.. a place to do testing on it.. or a lab. I've even heard of crime weapons being sent back to the factory for testing.. etc.. research.. etc.

sound slike more could be had , depending upon the willingness of the overseers involved

gvw3 · 10-31-2012, 06:13 PM

You may want to let it go and not look back. I may be a bit superstitious but it seems like you have had some bad luck with this gun right from the start.

Just a thought.

zkovach · 10-31-2012, 07:08 PM

Sorry to hear bud!! Got to be a relief though

millwright · 10-31-2012, 08:27 PM

"I thought our laws were supposed to protect the victim?"

Where did you chance upon this fantasy ? >MW

Ledslnger · 10-31-2012, 08:34 PM

The cops probably just want to keep it and use it as a "test" gun aka fun gun. I have read they try to keep one of everything so they can replicate crimes and have parts guns around to fix guns that were possibly used in crimes that have been destroyed. If the gun doesn't work they can't shoot a bullet and get a bullet signature.
Just like cops pour out all the beer they take from minors.....RIGHT!!! Heck, the county cops I grew up with smoked all the weed they "confiscated" because none of it made it to the evidence room and they didn't write many tickets for weed...unless they had plenty in their stash.

1LoneWolf75 · 10-31-2012, 09:43 PM

Glad to hear that they found it, sorry bout the BS. I would probably take the payment from the NRA and get a new one this one seems to be fraught with bad luck.
On the other hand I have now learned where to buy gun insurance. My renters only covers 1500 so I think I will be lookin into the NRA's deal.

10-31-2012, 09:20 AM	#1
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Just thought I'd let everyone know that I received a call from the Chattanooga Police department saying they had recovered my pistol. I had started a thread a while back about this and received tons of support from you guys (http://thefirearmsforum.com/showthre...=stolen+kimber) Unfortunately, the robbery suspect they found the gun with had filed the serial numbers off of it. They were able to identify the gun by some numbers on internal parts and by the accessories (Holster, etc) that were stolen with the gun. The most unfortunate part about this is apparently TN state law says that any weapon with the serial numbers removed is considered a "Non-releasable" weapon and must be destroyed! If you read the original thread, you'd know this gun was 4 days old when it was stolen and is still practically brand new other than the numbers being filed off. Destroy it? Really? And the detective said he's talked to Kimber and they CAN take it back and fix the serial number issue, but the law says it cannot be released from custody, so they can't do it! He has a meeting with the ATF on Friday and is planning to go over all this with them, but it sounds like I'll still be the victim and the gun will be toast. That almost pisses me off more than it getting stolen in the first place! I thought our laws were supposed to protect the victim? Sorry for the rant.... Here's a picture... Attached Images -->

10-31-2012, 09:25 AM	#2
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,343	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Man, sorry to hear that. It is almost like it is being stolen from you a second time. Hopefully the detective can talk a little sense into the ATF guy he talks with. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

10-31-2012, 09:36 AM	#3
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,883	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 I don't see what the police could not send it to Kimber have them fix it and then send it back to them and then release it to you. a lot of paperwork and run around, but at least you'd have your gun back. Did they give you any details about the recovery? __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

10-31-2012, 09:50 AM	#4
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 "Did they give you any details about the recovery?" Oh yeah. The detective was very happy to tell me all about how they took down the robbery suspect. Apparently they had staked out a local motel for hours and the guy never showed up so they went in his room and searched it. They didn't find anything there and the entire group left except te detective and another officer. He said they were just standing around talking when the suspect pulled up in a car matching the description of a getaway car in a robbery, so they surrounded to car and I quote "Took him down." They found the gun between his feet in the front floor of the car and he had my holster clipped to his side. Evidently he told the police he didn't steal it, he just bought it from another guy off the street. I was hoping this would lead to the the thief too b/c I had a bunch of other stuff stolen from my truck along with the gun.

10-31-2012, 10:03 AM	#5
Double D TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: North Florida Contributor Posts: 8,082	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 This stinks. If nothing else, they should allow you to have everything but the frame and you could buy a frame from Kimber or someone else and build another gun. I wish you the best, keep us informed. __________________ I own a bunch of scary guns. You want em? Come and take em..... Liberalism is a serious, non curable, mental disorder... NRA LIFE MEMBER Oath Keepers Member NRA Certified Instructor 30 Yr CC permit holder.

10-31-2012, 10:56 AM	#6
pkcgbifaid V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charleston, WV Contributor Posts: 490	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 I know for a fact that the ATF allows for the restamping of serial numbers in cases like this, but it sounds like it's the state law that messes that up. Since by federal law the part with the serial number is the "firearm" and the rest is just "parts", I would do like Double D says and see if nothing else they will let you strip all the parts and let them destroy the frame since that is the "firearm". __________________ "...As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson

10-31-2012, 11:47 AM	#7
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Yeah, I definately plan to ask if I can strip the gun if it indeed must be destroyed. I have a police friend who told me it is very unlikely that they will let me have the barrel either. So the idea of building another one gets a little more complicated than just buying a new frame. Plus, he said it would be foolish of me to keep the barrel in the event the guy has used it in a homicide or something and the police don't know it yet. If so, the ballistics would still match to my gun and could potentially cause problems in the future. Either way, I definately would want everything else I could get off of it (grips, sights, mags, springs, slide, etc) There's another part to all of this to that I discussed in the older thread. Because I am a life member with the NRA, I received a reimbursement check from the NRA for the value of the gun less a $100 deductable. So technically, the gun now belongs to the NRA. However, I still have the option to give the money back to the NRA and keep the gun IF the police department can work something out where I can get it re-serialed. But if it does have to be destroyed, I don't see why the NRA would care for me getting the parts off of it. I need to call them and find out. Anyone on here work for the NRA and know the answer to that?

10-31-2012, 11:55 AM	#8
ozo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 2,770	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Don't be stealin' the NRA's stuff..... __________________ http://www.nranews.com/#/nranews, "ozo. you're off your rocker sir." -johnlives4christ http://www.prisonplanet.com/ -America,Bless GOD-

10-31-2012, 11:59 AM	#9
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 How is it it stealing if I get their permission OR pay back the reimbursement? I'm not a thief!

10-31-2012, 12:12 PM	#10
WHSmithIV Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Moore, Idaho contributor Posts: 2,630	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 If the NRA covered the gun for you minus the $100 wouldn't it be cheaper in time and effort to simply buy a new one. Seems like you'll spend more than $100 worth of time trying to deal with getting the stolen one back. Just thought a little more - if the detective will at least let you have the grips from it and your holster then you're out even less than $100. Last edited by WHSmithIV; 10-31-2012 at 12:14 PM..

10-31-2012, 12:22 PM	#11
jjmitchell60 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Raised in Buzzard Roost near Frog Town in hillls of Kentucky Contributor Posts: 1,471	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 You might get by with having an attorney make amotion before the judge in the case to have the gun sent back to Kimber. NOW with that said, you are actually spending more money than what a new one will cost you. IF you are only out $100 on it from getting insurance money or what ever, then cut your losses and run. Buy a new one with the insurance money. Even better, find a nice used one and maybe get it for waht you got in insurance (NRA money) IMHO. __________________ Oath Keepers NOT ON OUR WATCH www.oathkeepers.org 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution: A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes Duty... Thomas Jefferson

10-31-2012, 02:10 PM	#12
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 I don't disagree that it may not be worth my time to try and get this one back, but it is more principle than anything. I really would hate to see a $1500 gun get destroyed because some crack-head decided to file the serial numbers off of it. IF the NRA were to take possesion of the gun, they would raffle it off to raise money for their cause and get back some if not all the money they gave me. IF I can get it back by having Kimber re-serial it and giving the NRA their money back (not sure what Kimber would charge to do this) then at least it's not getting destroyed. IF it has to be destroyed AND THE NRA APPROVES of it, then I'll try to obtain all the parts I can to make up for the $100 I'm out for the deductable. To me, it's just a huge injustice to me or the NRA to have the thing destroyed and I'd like to prevent that from happening. That's all..

10-31-2012, 03:45 PM	#15
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,298	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 In one way it's still good news. Your gun is no longer in the hands of a criminal who may kill some one with it. And he will pay for his crime. I had my guns stolen in 1981. Never was reimbursed for the loss and never recovered any of them. That is one beautiful gun. Will you be getting one just like it if you don't get the old one back? __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

10-31-2012, 03:55 PM	#16
firefighter1635 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: US of A Contributor Posts: 1,837	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Glad they recovered the gun from the streets but it's unfortunate about the law. After your original post on this I contacted my insurance agent about my firearms. My policy only covers up to $1500.00 of stolen firearms, heck i've got single guns worth more than that. To top it off he tells me I can buy aditional for $30.00 more per $100.00 of coverage .

10-31-2012, 04:04 PM	#17
AuburnAlum15 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 25	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 "That is one beautiful gun. Will you be getting one just like it if you don't get the old one back?" Yes, but Kimber makes each of their models in weird production runs, so it's kind of hard to find a Raptor II Stainless model like mine. firefighter1635: For that rate per coverage, I think it's cheaper to pay for additional coverage through the NRA. You may want to check with them....

10-31-2012, 04:16 PM	#19
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,453	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 i'm a principle kind of guy myself. the 'can't be released' story has holes in it. I bet it could be released and sent to.. say.. a place to do testing on it.. or a lab. I've even heard of crime weapons being sent back to the factory for testing.. etc.. research.. etc. sound slike more could be had , depending upon the willingness of the overseers involved

10-31-2012, 06:13 PM	#20
gvw3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Chicago IL Area Contributor Posts: 3,298	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 You may want to let it go and not look back. I may be a bit superstitious but it seems like you have had some bad luck with this gun right from the start. Just a thought. __________________ Criminals advocate stronger gun laws to foster a safer work environment. This limits their exposure to risk.

10-31-2012, 07:08 PM	#21
zkovach Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,005	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Sorry to hear bud!! Got to be a relief though __________________ Liberalism: Poverty for ALL!!

10-31-2012, 08:27 PM	#22
millwright Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,440	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 "I thought our laws were supposed to protect the victim?" Where did you chance upon this fantasy ? >MW

10-31-2012, 08:34 PM	#23
Ledslnger V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: N Central, IA Posts: 415	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 The cops probably just want to keep it and use it as a "test" gun aka fun gun. I have read they try to keep one of everything so they can replicate crimes and have parts guns around to fix guns that were possibly used in crimes that have been destroyed. If the gun doesn't work they can't shoot a bullet and get a bullet signature. Just like cops pour out all the beer they take from minors.....RIGHT!!! Heck, the county cops I grew up with smoked all the weed they "confiscated" because none of it made it to the evidence room and they didn't write many tickets for weed...unless they had plenty in their stash.

10-31-2012, 09:43 PM	#24
1LoneWolf75 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Humboldt KS Posts: 592	Re: Update on Stolen Kimber Raptor II 1911 Glad to hear that they found it, sorry bout the BS. I would probably take the payment from the NRA and get a new one this one seems to be fraught with bad luck. On the other hand I have now learned where to buy gun insurance. My renters only covers 1500 so I think I will be lookin into the NRA's deal. __________________ They can have my guns when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!!! "Democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who are not." - Thomas Jefferson "I've seen the system fall apart from the rules and all our presidents lie"--"Soul Survive"- Asphalt Ballethttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6DgVrYWw00