1911 clone problem range report

[hunter29180]

well as some of you know I bought home a Llama..the 9mm kind, not the animal type.

when I got it i picked up some Herter's 9mm steel case, berdan primed. if I had looked harder I would have noticed the steel case and passed on them, but al I saw was the cheap price.

well today I took out the Llama to "excercise" it. the only problem I encountered was when fired, it would cycle another round just fine..but it would fail to cock the hammer for the next shot, the hammer ends up in the 1/2 cock position. after disemmbling it and rechecking, several times with the same result. I was pretty bummed out....then I had a thought!

after several houres I found this "cheap" ammo has a velocity of around 1125 fps. and is consitered "weak" for a 1911. so heres the question..is this correct? other than this I found the Llama easy to handle and suprisingly accurate! btw..the hammer cocks properly whe slide is manuelally operated.

please help!

will get pictures up in a day or so.

[jbrescue]

Ammo or recoil spring. With a used 1911 it is not a bad idea to replace the recoil spring anyhow.

[WHSmithIV]

A recoil spring that's a little weak shouldn't prevent the hammer from fully cocking though.
The sear, hammer notch or sear spring are the most likely candidates. Don't fire it a lot until you fix it. The half cock hammer notch won't take a lot of abuse. My bet is your sear spring should be replaced.

[Jim K]

I suspect that the problem is in the hammer notch or the sear, a result of someone doing a "trigger job" on that gun. If so, the bad news may be that parts might not be available and the company is out of business. Some of those guns have some parts that interchange with the M1911, but not something to count on.

Unfortunately, the gun I got at a bargain today is the gun someone else screwed up yesterday.

Jim

[Helix_FR]

the Llama sears and hammers are darn close to govt 1911 specs. The of the few I have seen most are bc the sear nose is rounded. A worn disconnect can cause the same problem. On a empty chamber with no mag, lock open the slide with your finger on the trigger, this will move the disconnect down, then drop the slide. See if the hammer follows.

[B27]

Shoot it with Winchester USA or Federal American Eagle brass cased ammo before doing anything else.

The gun was not designed for steel cased ammo and may well be sensitive to it.

[jstanfield103]

I would agree with B27 fire it with good ammo Federal or Winchester. Just good cheap Wal-Mart ammo will do. I bet it works ok after that.

[lead]

I agree, first thing to do is try some good ammo. If that works, just don't use steel cased ammo anymore.
If not, a trip to a gunsmith is in order. He can determine if stock 1911 parts will fit the gun and probably have anything you need on hand.
Good luck with it.

[crockett007]

Originally Posted by WHSmithIV

A recoil spring that's a little weak shouldn't prevent the hammer from fully cocking though.
The sear, hammer notch or sear spring are the most likely candidates. Don't fire it a lot until you fix it. The half cock hammer notch won't take a lot of abuse. My bet is your sear spring should be replaced.

The above advice is correct. You may experiment by increasing the tension on the current sear spring finger. The laws of physics dictate that when the slide comes fully out of battery, it WILL drive the hammer back to the full cock position. Since the spent case is ejecting, we know there is no problem with the recoil spring or extractor. The hammer is "bouncing" out of the full cock notch because the sear does not have enough tension to stay in a repeatable position under recoil.

You can fix this problem in about ten minutes. All traditional 1911 platforms are susceptible to this failure.

You can also check this by releasing the slide on an empty chamber to see if the hammer follows. BE SURE TO DEPRESS THE TRIGGER AND HOLD IT PRIOR TO RELEASING THE SLIDE STOP. This will prevent your hammer and sear from being "peened". The hammer should not drop or go to half cock.

[hunter29180]

Originally Posted by Helix_FR

the Llama sears and hammers are darn close to govt 1911 specs. The of the few I have seen most are bc the sear nose is rounded. A worn disconnect can cause the same problem. On a empty chamber with no mag, lock open the slide with your finger on the trigger, this will move the disconnect down, then drop the slide. See if the hammer follows.

think I did this right..hold trigger, pull back and lock slide while still holding trigger, release slide while still holding trigger. hammer followed slide.

so this would indicate a worn sear?

[hunter29180]

Originally Posted by crockett007

The above advice is correct. You may experiment by increasing the tension on the current sear spring finger. The laws of physics dictate that when the slide comes fully out of battery, it WILL drive the hammer back to the full cock position. Since the spent case is ejecting, we know there is no problem with the recoil spring or extractor. The hammer is "bouncing" out of the full cock notch because the sear does not have enough tension to stay in a repeatable position under recoil.

You can fix this problem in about ten minutes. All traditional 1911 platforms are susceptible to this failure.

You can also check this by releasing the slide on an empty chamber to see if the hammer follows. BE SURE TO DEPRESS THE TRIGGER AND HOLD IT PRIOR TO RELEASING THE SLIDE STOP. This will prevent your hammer and sear from being "peened". The hammer should not drop or go to half cock.

ok same result hammer followed slide..so how do I increase the tension on the sear spring finger? I will try that next. I need to get this gun right as it is what I planned on usinng for my concealed permit classes.

[crockett007]

Originally Posted by hunter29180

ok same result hammer followed slide..so how do I increase the tension on the sear spring finger? I will try that next. I need to get this gun right as it is what I planned on usinng for my concealed permit classes.

Google your pistol and find the iso schematic exploded view, this will familiarize you as to the parts you need to disassemble.. Then google dis assembly instructions for your pistol. The spring we are talking about has three fingers, one for the disconnector, one for the grip safety, and one for the sear. You simply need to bend the sear finger forward, so it will have more tension. I could give you step by step instructions on a Colt, but since it's a Llama, I don't want to give out bad info, since I'm not famililar with your gun. If you can post a picture of the back of the frame, I can probably guide you step by step.

[hunter29180]

ok tried adjusting spring..the sear looks ok to me, but then I am not a gun smith!
this pistoldoes not have a grip safty or a disconnector, as such the spring is just 1 finger.

its still doing same thing. I will break dowm pistol again tomorrow and post pictures of the parts. and a close up of the sear. I looked till I was cross eyed at colts and did not se a match for it.

[hunter29180]

ok here are the pictures I promised!

[hunter29180]

these next ones show it field srripped. BTW! I "DREAMED" the solution to the problem I was having! I saw in my mind what the gun was suppose to do when fired. then I somehow gained the understanding of what was not happening and a possible area to look closely at for the problem and the solution!

look closely at the last picture...see the "t" bar and the straight bar? that was the problem. when I too thid gun apart they were just like that and so I reassembled it the same way! WRONG!!! the "t" bar is not suppose to overlap the straight bar!! it sits above it and as the slide comes back it "PUSHES" the straight bar down to release the sear! this allows the sear to catch the hammer in the cocked position!

its funny but a little over a year ago I could not have figured this out. the knowlege I have gained on this board has got me to this point! THANK YOU ALL!!

[crockett007]

Ah yes, the old "transfer bar" system. It's been 30 years since I've seen this. Anyway, I'm so glad you got this figured out. Good luck man.