To you third party voters

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Sure, if that's how you want to see it. I didn't do enough to keep O from being reelected. Neither did you or anyone else. We all failed.

Pointing fingers helps what? Other than assuring that the Republican Party doesn't grow, I guess.

Pointing fingers is the first step in solving ANY problem. Find the source/sources of the problem before you can find the solution to the problem. Management 101!

[CampingJosh]

The premise of this thread is that conservatives and libertarians need to form a coalition of sorts, right?

How does this help? How does blaming one part of the coalition make us stronger? How does this help us win in the future.
Speak what you really think in anger, and you're driving a wedge between the groups. You're not helping anything.

You're pissed. Fine, whatever. Quit cutting off your nose. Or if you refuse to at least quit insulting people you admittedly need, don't be shocked when they refuse to help you ever in the future.

[red14]

Actually, apathy is our biggest problem.

There are 207,000,000+ registered voters.
Plus 60,ooo,ooo possible, but not registered voters.
Maybe 120 million voted. 147 mill plus did not vote.
0bama won by 3 million.

Apathy is our biggest problem.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by steve4102

Pointing fingers is the first step in solving ANY problem. Find the source/sources of the problem before you can find the solution to the problem. Management 101!

Attacking people is the worst management action possible. Correct actions. Correct attitudes. Fire attitudes or actions. Don't ever make it personal.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

The premise of this thread is that conservatives and libertarians need to form a coalition of sorts, right?

How does this help? How does blaming one part of the coalition make us stronger? How does this help us win in the future.
Speak what you really think in anger, and you're driving a wedge between the groups. You're not helping anything.

You're pissed. Fine, whatever. Quit cutting off your nose. Or if you refuse to at least quit insulting people you admittedly need, don't be shocked when they refuse to help you ever in the future.

Really, are you serious?? You are a third Party advocate and you Honesty think you are not the Man with the Biggest Wedge. God help us all with logic like yours.

Show me where I insulted people in this thread???

I can show you where you insulted me...

Appliancedude and Steve4102, your votes went for Obama

I worked hard for Chip Cravaack and the rest of the Rep. in my district, it didn't work out to well as we all know, but I'll be damned if I am going to sit hear and be insulted by you telling me that I voted Obama, Moderator or NOT.

Third Party, my a$$.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Attacking people is the worst management action possible. Correct actions. Correct attitudes. Fire attitudes or actions. Don't ever make it personal.

Big difference between "attacking people" and pointing fingers at the problem. Management 101.

[hogger129]

Republican leaders aren't supporting conservative politics. They certainly talk conservative principles, but once in office, they govern much like big government liberals. Even now with Obama in office, Republicans act like the loyal opposition and talk conservative. But talking the talk isn't the same as walking the walk.

When it comes to politicians, don't listen to what they say, look at what they do.

If Republicans had won the Presidency, how much would have changed? Would the USA PATRIOT Act get repealed? Would the NDAA get repealed? Would Obamacare get repealed? Would the debt and deficits be dealt with? They protest bailouts, reckless spending and expansion of government, but once in office, they end up supporting the same things. Maybe slightly smaller versions, but it's still the same concept.

We can sit here and blame libertarians for Obama winning, but the real reason he won is because there are more takers than makers in this country and the Republican Party is just more of the same IMO.

[al45lc]

I'm sorry everyone is so upset, but I now don't believe that any amount of 'get out the vote' strategies would have helped, I say again, with THAT many takers we've become a minority.
That segment of the populace is growing, it was inevitable.
And of course, there's the left wing media.
If ya'll wanna lay blame, that's where it lies, IMHO.

[CCHolderinMaine]

Originally Posted by red14

Actually, apathy is our biggest problem.

There are 207,000,000+ registered voters.
Plus 60,ooo,ooo possible, but not registered voters.
Maybe 120 million voted. 147 mill plus did not vote.
0bama won by 3 million.

Apathy is our biggest problem.

Apathy is second, only to ignorance.
We have a generally ignorant populace.
This election is the starkest confirmation yet.
Our utterly corrupt press is a chief cause of this.

[steve4102]

Originally Posted by CCHolderinMaine

Apathy is second, only to ignorance.
We have a generally ignorant populace.
This election is the starkest confirmation yet.
Our utterly corrupt press is a chief cause of this.

Don't forget what this thread was originally about, The "Third Party" movement, or in other words the " Me Party", and "The to Hell with the Country Party".

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by steve4102

Really, are you serious?? You are a third Party advocate and you Honesty think you are not the Man with the Biggest Wedge. God help us all with logic like yours.

Show me where I insulted people in this thread???

I can show you where you insulted me...



I worked hard for Chip Cravaack and the rest of the Rep. in my district, it didn't work out to well as we all know, but I'll be damned if I am going to sit hear and be insulted by you telling me that I voted Obama, Moderator or NOT.

Third Party, my a$$.

I insulted you by explaining the Electoral College?

What third party do I advocate for? Tell me, which one have I promoted? Find a post where I told anyone to vote for someone other than a Republican. Good luck.

There is a difference between advocating a third party and refusing to whore myself out to big government liberals just because they have an (R) next to their names.
Sometimes that strategy makes us take a half step to the left (for instance, Tea Party people outed liberal Republican Senator Dick Lugar, but we ended up replacing him with Democrat Joe Donnelly). Do I regret it? Nope. Still making progress in fixing the Republican Party. Really no net loss, anyway.

Bitch and moan and yell at me all you want. My skin is plenty thick. Just don't be shocked that you're shooting yourself in the foot by demanding unthinking loyalty.

[FreeSovereign]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

The finger pointing has begun.


But in the final analysis, this tragedy is due to the simple fact that the electorate in this country is now comprised of more moochers than producers.

He gave me a PHONE!

is now a valid reason to vote for scum like this to run our country.

Perhaps it is finally time for the final solution of Atlas Shrugged.

Quit producing and let the country descend into madness.

I have often wondered why Atlas Shrugged is not the banner of freedom. I figure it is due to the atheistic theme and leanings of the author. It still seems to be the only peaceful solution, and has been the solution of those able to move their businesses elsewhere.


After reading this thread and the others on blaming each other, here, for the O problem, it is obvious most would just call them quitters for not producing for the mooches and looters.

Then again, I find it almost amusing that people actually think their vote counted. Maybe it did, maybe it didn't, but to assume that the corruption hasn't bled into all aspects of the election is indeed a ''head in the sand'' view.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

You are a complete moron who doesn't understand basic arithmetic aren't you? Flip Flop Romney didn't have enough support from people who would have got out of the house and voted for a real conservative Republican. He was a hack loser put up by the party bosses just like the other hacks they put up like Dole and McCain.

Only 1.1% of the vote in Wisconsin didn't go to Romney or the current resident of the White House. Romney had 5.5% fewer votes because more single young amoral people went out to vote than the staid conservative normal folks with conservative values. Go ahead blame us Libertarians, I bet you think gnomes come in and steal a sock out of your laundry hamper every night don't you?

Don't hand me your bull____ you wouldn't have voted for a real honest to God Conservative either. You so full of crap its coming out your ears. You still would have voted for the Libertarian guy.

[FreeSovereign]

Originally Posted by 1 Eyed Jack

Been waiting for this Liberal in Libertarian clothes to chime in with his "wisdom", been keeping pretty quiet but I knew the selfish 3rd party voter/promoter just couldn't keep quiet, yes I said selfish, because it is, when you vote to make yourself feel like you did the right thing, instead of for the good of the country as a whole.

I keep hearing this ''for the good of the country'' theme. I agree, but only if what is good for the country is good for myself (my free market capitalistic selfish self) that is. I always get a little twitchy when I hear the Marxist themes of ''greater good'' and such. I am sure that is not the case here though...just saying it sounds awfully similar.

[dad2thebone]

Well i'll save my foul mouth for when i calm down. I will say to all the lame ass voters who did this to us, thanks a ton! We who didnt dont even get a kiss or reacharound.It's a sad day in the USA.

[1 Eyed Jack]

Originally Posted by FreeSovereign

I keep hearing this ''for the good of the country'' theme. I agree, but only if what is good for the country is good for myself (my free market capitalistic selfish self) that is. I always get a little twitchy when I hear the Marxist themes of ''greater good'' and such. I am sure that is not the case here though...just saying it sounds awfully similar.

Oh man, thank you...I'm a Marxist....LOL, thank you, first time I think I have smiled or laughed in the last 24 hrs,

I've seen a couple of your "I'm smarter than everyone" post's recently, well, maybe you are, maybe you are not......

[markfh]

Lots of harsh words here said by people that for the most part stand next to each other in the choir.

I see multiple reasons for our failure to rid ourselves of the marxist president but maybe the biggest, in my opinion, is the lack of interest by the 15 million or so people that voted in 2008 and didn't this time. Many of whom were republicans.

In many districts that probably would have made a huge difference. One we would have like much more.

We have a lot of work to do and should start now.

[graehaven]

No third party voters in ANY of the "blue" states (save Florida) would have added enough votes to Romney for to take the state. Florida is still in flux. But even if it were to go for Romney it won't take him to the needed 270 electoral votes.

Numbers here:

http://www.usatoday.com/election-2012/results/

Hover over any of the states at the above link to the results, and you'll see that his loss was by such a huge margin, that all the "other" votes wouldn't have come close to helping.

More likely, a bunch of "conservative" or "independent" voters didn't bother turning out, being so fed up with the corrupt 2 party system, that they no longer care. Your anger would be better focused there than at members here.

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by markfh

Lots of harsh words here said by people that for the most part stand next to each other in the choir.

I see multiple reasons for our failure to rid ourselves of the marxist president but maybe the biggest, in my opinion, is the lack of interest by the 15 million or so people that voted in 2008 and didn't this time. Many of whom were republicans.

In many districts that probably would have made a huge difference. One we would have like much more.

We have a lot of work to do and should start now.

That is exactly the issue. NOT the ideological differences among independent minded voters who actually DID go out and vote.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

The premise of this thread is that conservatives and libertarians need to form a coalition of sorts, right?

No the premise of this thread was I was pissed off, frankly still am. I'm starting to regret having started this thread, as the anger I have at my fellow Americans is subsiding. Now I'm feeled with remorse. To those 3rd party guys that realized I was blowing off steam and kept their mouths closed and just let me vent, THANK YOU.

Originally Posted by graehaven

No third party voters in ANY of the "blue" states (save Florida) would have added enough votes to Romney for to take the state. Florida is still in flux. But even if it were to go for Romney it won't take him to the needed 270 electoral votes.

When I started this thread it was about 1/2 hour after Romneys concession speech. None of those numbers were in yet.

A lot of people have said things here over the last day and a half that I'm we regret. I know I'm one of them. There votes wouldn't have helped but they wouldn't have hurt either. I told you guys before, Romney was gonna need every vote he could get. I WAS RIGHT

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

A lot of people have said things here over the last day and a half that I'm we regret. I know I'm one of them. There votes wouldn't have helped but they wouldn't have hurt either. I told you guys before, Romney was gonna need every vote he could get. I WAS RIGHT

Yes you were right but he could not muster the voters to his cause because of his liberal baggage. I don't care who votes for who if that is who they really believe in but to start blaming others for the failure of your chosen candidate is simple minded at best and wrong no matter how you look at it. You want to compromise and vote for a compromising candidate that is your right. I voted for who I could believe in and stand behind and it wasn't Romney. I am not the reason the Republicans lost, the Party bosses and the mainstream media and apathy from all the couch sitters who were not inspired to exorcise their right to vote are the reason Republicans did not take the day. I voted straight Republican since I became a Goldwater Republican to the horror of my strictly Democrat family. I stayed true to the party till 1993 when George H. W. Bush and his adviser Colin Powell stopped short of victory and then after leaving office and giving us Dole he slammed the NRA for their stance on guns. They were fine as long as they were throwing their support behind him but when he didn't need them he ditched them.

I am was and will be an Allan Keyes backer till he or I turn room temperature and if you will look carefully he is a Republican but a steadfast stand by his principles and not change his stance depending on which way the winds blow type of politician. That is why I voted for Gary, same kind of man.

Yet you blame me for your candidate losing, duh! I'm the guy pushing people to learn the issues, to learn what their rights are, to go beyond what you see on TV but nope, I'm the whipping boy, I beat Romney, makes sense to me. Sorry about the name calling but you do know how to push my buttons.

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by Old Grump

Yes you were right but he could not muster the voters to his cause because of his liberal baggage. I don't care who votes for who if that is who they really believe in but to start blaming others for the failure of your chosen candidate is simple minded at best and wrong no matter how you look at it. You want to compromise and vote for a compromising candidate that is your right. I voted for who I could believe in and stand behind and it wasn't Romney. I am not the reason the Republicans lost, the Party bosses and the mainstream media and apathy from all the couch sitters who were not inspired to exorcise their right to vote are the reason Republicans did not take the day. I voted straight Republican since I became a Goldwater Republican to the horror of my strictly Democrat family. I stayed true to the party till 1993 when George H. W. Bush and his adviser Colin Powell stopped short of victory and then after leaving office and giving us Dole he slammed the NRA for their stance on guns. They were fine as long as they were throwing their support behind him but when he didn't need them he ditched them.

I am was and will be an Allan Keyes backer till he or I turn room temperature and if you will look carefully he is a Republican but a steadfast stand by his principles and not change his stance depending on which way the winds blow type of politician. That is why I voted for Gary, same kind of man.

Yet you blame me for your candidate losing, duh! I'm the guy pushing people to learn the issues, to learn what their rights are, to go beyond what you see on TV but nope, I'm the whipping boy, I beat Romney, makes sense to me. Sorry about the name calling but you do know how to push my buttons.

Hey I work on appliances, of course I know how to push buttons.

Look, I was angry and you guys were the closest target I could hit. For that I apologize. I'm still pissed off though. I'm sure you've never taken your anger out on someone who didn't deserve it. But unlike you, I'm not perfect

What annoys me most about you Grump is you. In another thread you yelled at everyone for quitting and taking their bat and going home. But that is what you did, isn't it. You got mad at Bush 41 and quit. You took your bat and went home. Instead of trying to help fix the Republican party, you left it. And then get mad at others for doing the same thing. Am I happy with my party? NOPE. Do I still plan on leaving it? Not sure at the moment. I"M NOT A QUITTER! I think we can fix it. But we need everyone.

As for Alan Keyes. Yea he's a good guy. I like him. But he wasn't electable then, and he's never run for Pres. since. Help us find another Keyes, or get the bastard to run again. The reason he wasn't electable then, was he had never held a public office. I don't know if he has since.

[MadScotsMan]

I think the lessons here are:

1) Think and calm down before you post because right or wrong, people are going to call you on what you post, particularly when you are posting inflammatory statements.

2) I am certain that the people who voted third party did so with their country first in their hearts and minds whether you choose to believe that or not.

3) There is little difference in what the final outcome will be whether it is four more years of Obama or four years with Romney. We're screwed. And we let it happen.

Despite who is in the White House, this country will continue its slide from a democratic republic to a fascist "corpotocracy." Corporations are people, really? A billion dollars spent on this campaign? Really? We are all united in the belief that this country can be a much, much better place than it has turned into in the last 30 years or so. We the people will ultimately be responsible for the change we want, but we will fail miserably if we squander our ability to effect change if we sit around alienating, denigrating and insulting each other. I understand the need to rant, Lord knows I've done more than my share of late, but when that rant becomes a tirade against the very people who pretty much believe the same as you, then absolutely NOTHING is gained and those currently in power have won because we wasted all our time and effort infighting rather than working together. You will never get a 100% consensus, but if like-minded people work together rather than against one another to effect change, then this country can recover from this mess it currently finds itself in and be great once again.

I'll climb off off soapbox now...flame away. I hear Jack said his bar is open….

[Appliancedude]

Originally Posted by MadScotsMan

I think the lessons here are:

1) Think and calm down before you post because right or wrong, people are going to call you on what you post, particularly when you are posting inflammatory statements.

2) I am certain that the people who voted third party did so with their country first in their hearts and minds whether you choose to believe that or not.

3) There is little difference in what the final outcome will be whether it is four more years of Obama or four years with Romney. We're screwed. And we let it happen.

Despite who is in the White House, this country will continue its slide from a democratic republic to a fascist "corpotocracy." Corporations are people, really? A billion dollars spent on this campaign? Really? We are all united in the belief that this country can be a much, much better place than it has turned into in the last 30 years or so. We the people will ultimately be responsible for the change we want, but we will fail miserably if we squander our ability to effect change if we sit around alienating, denigrating and insulting each other. I understand the need to rant, Lord knows I've done more than my share of late, but when that rant becomes a tirade against the very people who pretty much believe the same as you, then absolutely NOTHING is gained and those currently in power have won because we wasted all our time and effort infighting rather than working together. You will never get a 100% consensus, but if like-minded people work together rather than against one another to effect change, then this country can recover from this mess it currently finds itself in and be great once again.

I'll climb off off soapbox now...flame away. I hear Jack said his bar is open….

1st, I have a very short fuse. And I tend to speak before I think. Luckily my anger subsides fast too. I'll deal with the ones mad at me. They will either forgive me or not. And the ones that don't, OH Well.

2nd I'm sure they did

3rd. While we may have been screwed either way, at least Romney would have used lube and gave us a RA

4th Whats the quickest way to Jacks bar?

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by Appliancedude

Hey I work on appliances, of course I know how to push buttons.

Look, I was angry and you guys were the closest target I could hit. For that I apologize. I'm still pissed off though.

Fire for effect. If you don't have thick skin, you shouldn't be in here.

I have a feeling that you, Steve, the Old Grump, and me would make for a fun table sitting in person. They'd have to put us in a corner though so we wouldn't disrupt the rest of the restaurant.

And the first round would be on me.