Should you carry a round in the chamber?

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by jaydub

Way back before the wheel was invented, I was part of a Marine detachment on board the USS America (CV-66). We guarded 4 nuclear weapon posts on the ship. Standard weapon was a 1911 that we HAD to carry unloaded. We had 5 rounds in the mag and none in the pipe. Didn't make sense then doesn't make sense now

Had the same scenario when Nite guard on an ammo dump-one A**hole took the powder out of the rounds as a joke-he was BORED (we were in Alaska) and cold- hahaha- we once had an IRA alert when they were moving some uh "gas" within the base- I was the Company NBCNCO then- made sure ready alert squad on standby had "real" gas filters in their masks instead of "tear" gas filters. Got my a** chewed by Brigade Chemical NCO. Company XO defended me said I did good

[WHSmithIV]

Everything I have is always loaded. They are tools and they don't work without bullets in them.

[jaydub]

Target, We did the same thing on board the carrier. I'll bet over half the rounds would have been squibs. It's amazing how bored you can get standing a 4 hour post.

[targetacqmgt]

Originally Posted by jaydub

Target, We did the same thing on board the carrier. I'll bet over half the rounds would have been squibs. It's amazing how bored you can get standing a 4 hour post.

LOL

[tcox4freedom]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

This is a great video. A gun without a round in the chamber is of very little use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syxrp...eature=related

That girl is "Limatunes". Her & her husband run www.defensivecarry.com .

They don't allow political or religious stuff over there. But, we have some real good scenario discussions. The site has a lot of LEO, EMT & firearms instructors. So the discussions are usually pretty informative.

In this particular training she said she was truly startled by the instructor; even though she was "expecting" the attack.

The woman that runs "The Cornered Cat" is also a member over there.

-

[GLS_1956]

I unload to reload. Every hole in the cylinder is filled, and the 1911 or P-35 have one up the spout.

[ampaterry]

OK, I just started to CCW a couple weeks ago.
New gun, new holster, new experience. I carried YEARS ago, but always open cary with a ruger High Standard 929, a Ruger Super Blackhawk and a Ruger Single Six. Round under the hammer or not, all are ready to go with the first cocking.

But this is different -
I imagined all sorts of scenarios where the gun slips from the holster, something snags the trigger, and I have an AD due to no external positive safety on the Glock 17.

So, the first three days that I carried it, it had nothing up the spout.

Those three days gave me confidence in the weapon AND in the locking holster I cary it in.
It CAN'T come out without my pressing the release button.
The trigger is covered and CAN'T get snagged while the gun is in the holster.
So now, I have one in the pipe and 17 more below it.
And I just ordered another magazine and a belt holder for two of them.
I cannot imagine a scenario that 52 rounds won't handle.

But my main reason for carying condition 1 is not speed -
The scenario I am more likely to encounter is not someone near me attacking me, but being just a person in a crowd that is being fired into.
I draw while their attention is on someone else -
I chamber a round - "Chunk kerchunk" -
And the sound makes me the next target.
I would rather the first sound the BG hears from me is "Boom", immediately following the bullet he is struck with.

And yes, in the service I faced the same idiocy!
EVERY 1911 I carried had an empty chamber.
EVERY M1 I carried had an empty chamber.
EVERY AR15 I carried had an empty chamber. (Yeah, back then it WAS called an AR-15)

I did not eat the mashed potatoes in the chow hall, at least - - -

[marlin795]

I'm a revolver nut. I prefer single actions or double actions with hammers. I can draw and cock the hammer in one movement and am ready to go. I also have Glock 36 and carry it with a round in the pipe, I like the idea of 6+1 better than 6 even though all my peacemakers are 6 and my carry revolvers are 5 shots. What's the point of an unloaded gun?

[Dog Soldier]

Why my brother do you bear a weapon and yet you are not armed.

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by Dog Soldier

Why my brother do you bear a weapon and yet you are not armed.

Who are you asking Dog Soldier?

[nmckenzie]

Carried my M1911A1 daily for 30+ years with 7 in the mag, 1 in the chamber, and hammer all the way down. Yeah, yeah, I know, when carrying with a chambered round the experts advise cocked and locked. Well, about a thousand years ago HP White Labs did a drop test on the 1911 - before the advent of the Series 80 firing pin block, and found that, yes, the pistol would discharge, but only if dropped from a height of at least 11 feet, and landing square on it's muzzle - therby imparting sufficient inertia for the pin to fly forward against spring pressure and strike the primer. Hammer down or hammer cocked and locked would've netted the same result, and since I didn't anticipate having to draw my sidearm while standing atop a ladder I carried it chamber loaded and hammer down.

[ozo]

Originally Posted by 76Highboy

Who are you asking Dog Soldier?

Dog Soldier is an Indian...Native American.....
at least he plays one on TFF.

He is obviously only stating the reason to always
have a loaded gun.....in his native format of tongue.

Why would you carry a knife, my Brother, that had no blade...?
See where I'm coming from?

He didn't ask the question directly to anyone......
more of .....a statement.....that sounded like a question.

Go to sweat lodge Highboy......breath thru pine branch,
jump in cold river....be healed and seek your vision.
Bring Mescal to me, my Brother, we will share.

[jlloyd73]

I would carry two rounds in the chamber if i could.....LOL

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by ozo

Dog Soldier is an Indian...Native American.....
at least he plays one on TFF.

He is obviously only stating the reason to always
have a loaded gun.....in his native format of tongue.

Why would you carry a knife, my Brother, that had no blade...?
See where I'm coming from?

He didn't ask the question directly to anyone......
more of .....a statement.....that sounded like a question.

Go to sweat lodge Highboy......breath thru pine branch,
jump in cold river....be healed and seek your vision.
Bring Mescal to me, my Brother, we will share.

Your funny. That is why I was asking him. Me wanted to know.

[nmckenzie]

Just a brief follow-up regarding chambered rounds, cocked and locked etc. I recall an incident back in NY during which a fellow had been carrying his cocked and locked Commander or Government Model in one of those belt slide deals. On sitting down in the car his pistol poked him in the thigh, so he slid it forward, evidently disengaging the thumb safety in the process. Subsequent fiddling resulted in a partial vasectomy.

[Zane71464]

If it's on my side (which my carry gun is 'sept while sleeping), it's laoded and ready for it's intended purpose...to be ready if needed.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by nmckenzie

Just a brief follow-up regarding chambered rounds, cocked and locked etc. I recall an incident back in NY during which a fellow had been carrying his cocked and locked Commander or Government Model in one of those belt slide deals. On sitting down in the car his pistol poked him in the thigh, so he slid it forward, evidently disengaging the thumb safety in the process. Subsequent fiddling resulted in a partial vasectomy.

I guess this is possible, but I have carried this way for many, many years and have never disengaged my safety. I sit on my couch, my recliner, my truck seat, my office chair and I adjust my holster quite often. I guess thats why they are called "accidents". Stranger things have happened. Even with the safety off, you still have to depress the grip safety and pull the trigger so......

[nmckenzie]

Originally Posted by Double D

Stranger things have happened. Even with the safety off, you still have to depress the grip safety and pull the trigger so......

If one were looking for an example of the old saying "Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong...", I think this one would be a contender. Not too many months back a local fellow inadvertantly shot himself (fatally) while preparing to leave the range and holstering his pistol. The newspaper described the pistol as a .44 Mag - whether revolver, autoloader, or single shot I don't know, and the holster was described as a shoulder rig. How many times have you seen someone pick up a handgun and automatically place their finger on the trigger. That factor may've played a part in both incidents.

[Deacon_Man]

I carry a 9mm derringer with both barrels loaded and the hammer on half cock in right hand pants pocket. And yes I do have the saftey button engaged.

[ryan42]

Originally Posted by Maine04657

The easy way to show anyone who thinks that a empty chamber is a good idea or a safety thing simple drill. Stand at the firing line about 20 feet from he target have a friend stand next to you facing the opposite way have a third person yell go the person not facing the target starts running the person firing draws racks a round and fires when the runner hears bang he stops and marks there location. Then do this again with a round in the chamber. Notice the difference in distance. This is the drill I used to use teaching the CCW class to show how far away a person can be and get to you before you can draw and fire really makes allot of folks train a bit harder.

Thats called the Tueller drill,made popular from Officer Dennis Tueller.He estimates that a person can charge 21 ft. in 1.5 seconds which is close to the time it takes the average person to draw acquire a sight picture and fire.Its good to practic.But what I do is have my son stand 21ft behind me and when I say go he runs at me and when he gets to me I have him tap me on the shoulder.That way hes never in front of me.

[sting75ray]

I carry my 45 cocked and locked all the time. I also carry my High Standard Derringer in my hip pocket ready to go.

[nmckenzie]

Originally Posted by sting75ray

I carry my 45 cocked and locked all the time. I also carry my High Standard Derringer in my hip pocket ready to go.

My M1911A1 was carried in a strong side high-ride, chamber loaded, hammer at rest. An S&W Model 40 Cenennial traveled in my right hand front pants pocket or sports jacket side pocket.

[squaw man]

I asked that same question of a cop that goes to my gym.... went something like this:
Cop: how long will it take to operate the slide on your pistol
Me: second or a second and a half
Cop: bad guy can get off two or three rounds in that time, next question

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by jaydub

Way back before the wheel was invented, I was part of a Marine detachment on board the USS America (CV-66). We guarded 4 nuclear weapon posts on the ship. Standard weapon was a 1911 that we HAD to carry unloaded. We had 5 rounds in the mag and none in the pipe. Didn't make sense then doesn't make sense now

let me explain why it makes sense with two examples. Most of our young seamen and most young marines had very little instruction time and/or range time with the 45 pistol.

Example one the youngster whose name, rate and ranking is lost in my old memory banks now. His sanity cart slipped off the track and he literally went nutso up forward starboard side. He grabbed the roving patrol's 45 and held him, the outboard sentry and a pair of mess cooks up against the bulkhead with the gun. We were moored outboard of another ship and the roving patrol saw what was happening so he informed out quarterdeck watch officer. Doubting the seriousness of the report the OOD sent the petty officer of the watch to check it out and report back to him. The young man was as unfamiliar with the gun as the rest of the people involved and he nervously chambered a round in his 45 as he went forward and again and again. End result is a trail of 5 live rounds on the deck behind him like a trail of bread crumbs. By the time he got there the party of captives grew to include the Messenger of the watch and the chaplain. Our hero with an empty gun joined the rest up against the bulkhead.

The chaplain suddenly pointed to the other ship which was gathering a small crowd of observers and said loudly "Look there", the guy looked then turned saw the chaplain stepping towards him tried to shoot but he hadn't chambered a round. He got cold cocked by the chaplain for his trouble, Corpsman got him in a straight jacket and sedated and he left the ship strapped to a gurney. The chaplain wasn't even a member of the ships crew, he was there meeting an old friend for breakfast.

Example two A young friend of mine, intelligent but a little shy on common sense assumed the ASROC watch. His post was below the flying bridge and since we were out to sea the Captain was on the bridge. Procedure is to take the magazine and count the 5 rounds, check the chamber of the 45 to insure it was empty, let the slide go forward, pull the trigger to lower the hammer, insert the magazine and holster the gun. If you insert the magazine before you release the slide and lower the hammer things get exciting. A hole in the flying bridge between our commanding officers very large feet is exciting. My little buddy was still there froze in position with the gun pointed in the air when they got to him and pried the gun out of his hand.

More training would have been desirable but it never happened unless you were assigned to a combat role or marksmanship team. Empty chamber while not full proof worked out once and did no good once. I don't want to think how many more accidents there would have been if all those young cowboys carried one in the chamber.

[flboots]

Ive heard that in older revolvers it is better to rest the hammer on an empty chamber unless you know your going into a fight. With newer guns there is better safety. So you can have all chambers loaded.