45lc vs 45 auto rimmed

[soundguy]

compair these 2 for me please?

[JLA]

the .45 colt is rought 25% more powerful than the .45 ACP/Auto Rim

Std pressure loadings they are ballistic equals.

The .45 colt can be loaded to exceed .44 magnum performance from a strong revolver or rifle.

[woolleyworm]

45AR is loaded just the same as 45acp, only it has a rim. 45LC is longer case, more powerful and fatter boolits.

Is this the comparison you were thinking of? 45AR is also more costly.

[JLA]

The only reason the Auto Rim cartridge exists id because of the Colt 1909 and S&W 1917 DA revolvers chambered in .45ACP of the early 20th century. The .45ACP revolvers utilized half or full moon cartridge clips to facilitate headspacing for the rimless .45ACP rounds in the revolver chambers. the Auto rim cartridge allows one to shoot these revolvers without the use of such clips

[JLA]

I used to have a sweet S&W 625 in .45ACP. it was a very well balanced revolver.. but I got dumb and sold it off.

THe worm here got all my Auto Rim ammo for a buddy of his.

[soundguy]

sure.. i was just curious.

on another forum I saw people talking about a webley. since I own one I was following the thread.

i see some were not finding the 'short' 455 ammo and were talking about 45ar.

my webley has been shaves for acp and moonclips.. but I do have a early colt still in 455 and thus hve some 455 ammo..

just curious... looking at load data.. seems like 45ar is stiff for a webley if you ask me..

[JLA]

No SG. if your webley has been headspaced for the .45ACP and moon clips it will be fine for .45 autorim. it is just a .45ACP with a rim so you dont need the moon clips

[soundguy]

really? wow...even better then. I may need to find some 45ar.

so no hadspace issues with that on a shaved cyl then?

hmm.. now next stupid question.

how would you shoot 455 in one that has been shaved? take a set of moon clips and bore the individual shell holder section out to slip around the case and still support the rim?

( thinking on the fly here.. at work and no gun or ammo in my hand to look at and size up ) being a shaved cyl.. I've never put a 455 in the cyl to see what it looked like.. and don't believe my ammo collection includes any 45ar.. or if it does.. not much and maybe purchased by accident or in a lot of other ammo maybee.

hmm... now you got me to thinking....

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by JLA

I used to have a sweet S&W 625 in .45ACP. it was a very well balanced revolver.. but I got dumb and sold it off.

THe worm here got all my Auto Rim ammo for a buddy of his.

Well, he musta kept it, 'cause he didn't sent it to me.

Oh, wait. You mean ANOTHER buddy of his?

Never mind.

[Alpo]

Soundguy. I've got a Webley. Been shaved. I have shot exactly 12 regular 45 ACPs in it. 45 ACP is about 50% more powerful than 455 Webley, and I saw no reason to beat the old girl up.

I load 200 grain lead SWC bullets in front of 3.0 of Bullseye. Easy on the gun. Easy on the pocketbook. Accurate as hell.

If your gun has been shaved, the 455s you have will not work. Excessive headspace.

If you buy 45 AR brass and reload light loads for your Webley, it will thank you.

Factory 45 AR (if you can find it) is just as powerful as factory 45 ACP, and so, like the ACP, is too powerful for the Webley. It's like shooting proof loads again and again and again.

You want to shoot factory AR in your revolver? Get yourself a good strong Smith.

[Alpo]

http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/c...ley-mk-vi.html

If you look in the section that says "load development and shooting", you will see that the 455 is loaded to 13000 psi, while factory 45 AR is loaded to 17,400 and factory 45 ACP is loaded to 18,850, with SAAMI allowing 21,000 psi for standard ball ammo.

That is one HELLUVA difference.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by Alpo

Well, he musta kept it, 'cause he didn't sent it to me.

Oh, wait. You mean ANOTHER buddy of his?

Never mind.

I think you got the 375HH ammo though, didn't you? Me and Josh were actually discussing that "find" and I couldn't remember who got the 11 or 12 rounds that were left.

[Alpo]

Yeah I did. Better "get", too. I got lots of 45 AR. Only had about two boxes of 375.

[soundguy]

i'll look at the next show for a box of factor 45ar, and pull it and relaod down to 455 standards I guess. i simply don't like moon clips for some reason.

[Alpo]

Why not just buy 45AR brass? Cheaper than buying full loads, and you don't have to pull 'em.

Starline makes it. So does Remington.

https://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog...ategoryId/534?

[soundguy]

if I havn't found any by the time I make my next midway order I will order some.

considering I won't be shooting it much.. It will probably be cheaper for me to find a box of 20 45ar at a show for 20$ and just relaod them. my first loads will already have factory projectiles too..

for as much as I would shoot that webley them 20 original brass will probably last a lifetime.

next question.

hwat about making 455 brass like for that colt I have. i have 1 box of 20 factory laods ( hornady? ) for it.. options?

[Alpo]

You can cut 45 Colt brass down for it. The rim is a little smaller than comes on a 455, but there should be enough of it to catch.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd455colt...dwebleymki.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd45colt.jpg

[soundguy]

interesting.

I have some 45lc that I shoot in my circuit judge... I may have to chuck that in the lathe and cut some to match the 455 i have and see how they look and fit.

I priced some 455 brass a while back and that made me go buy the hornady pre loaded ammo..

If I can recycle some of my 45lc that has nicked mouths.. that 'd otherwise toss.. that'd be even better..

thanks for the schooling alpo.. appreciate it.

[soundguy]

thanks for the pics.

so i see the eley is tapered .004 at the mouth, vs the straightwall 45lc .480 all the way... I take it the resize die will take care of that for me?

( I've never re-purposed brass.. yet ) trying to read up and learn a bit..

thanks

Originally Posted by Alpo

You can cut 45 Colt brass down for it. The rim is a little smaller than comes on a 455, but there should be enough of it to catch.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd455colt...dwebleymki.jpg

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd45colt.jpg

[soundguy]

so this begs a question.

could I take 45acp cases. cut them down to 455 size.. and shoot them loaded to 455 specs?

just curious... or 45ar?

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by soundguy

so this begs a question.

could I take 45acp cases. cut them down to 455 size.. and shoot them loaded to 455 specs?

just curious... or 45ar?

Absolutely.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by soundguy

thanks for the pics.

so i see the eley is tapered .004 at the mouth, vs the straightwall 45lc .480 all the way... I take it the resize die will take care of that for me?

( I've never re-purposed brass.. yet ) trying to read up and learn a bit..

thanks

Yep, it will.

Matter of fact, 45 Colt was originally tapered. But you can't taper a case with a carbide sizer die, so now all 45 Colt is "straight-walled".

[soundguy]

interesting thanks!

so i can cut 45acp and cut and use moonclips.. or 45ar and cut .. and load either to 455 specs. or 45lc....cut .. etc.. OR just reload them few 455 i have.

neat. too many options!

[JLA]

if its shaved for .45 acp and moon clips just load .455 pressure level loads in .45ACP or autorim brass and be done with it. The cylinder should accomodate the extra length just fine.

[soundguy]

no pressure problems leaving the case long, but with low power charge?. IE.. 45acp loaded to 455 would be an undercharge on the 45acp.. etc ( asme with 45AR )

sorry for soooo many questions.. just tring to get as many angles on this as i can wrap my head around.

had the webley and the colt out tonight to look at them.

45acp and moon clips fit fine in the shaved webley.. and the 455 are fine in the colt.