WW II Walther PP holster question.

Doc O. · 11-29-2012, 01:41 PM

Links below are pictures of a WWII-vintage Walther PP holster which I am curious about. It does not look like a typical wermacht-issue PP holster. It does, however, have a waffenamt stamp with eagle on the back and it was captured from an SS officer. I thought perhaps it was a replacement non-PP holster the officer was using but no other WWII german pistol fits in it properly. Perhaps some of the SS had their own syle holster?
Anyone seen anything like this?

http://www.gunsinternational.com/pop...295671-3-L.jpg

http://www.gunsinternational.com/pop...95671-11-L.jpg

Jim K · 11-29-2012, 01:47 PM

That looks like a Luger holster; it should swallow up a PP. I doubt very much that the gun was issued with that holster; more likely the two came together after capture.

Jim

jim brady · 11-29-2012, 02:51 PM

Doc, that PP should rattle around in that Luger holster like a BB in a boxcar. No way that pistol and holster were issued together. Like Jim said, bet they came together just to get it home semi-protected. Both are very nice, though.

RJay · 11-29-2012, 04:25 PM

If I didn't know it was captured from a SS officer

. I would think those two items came together during a poker game and was the result of a straight flush.

Jim K · 11-29-2012, 07:54 PM

Not many vets ever admitted to having won souvenir guns in poker games. They were always taken off at least generals, but more often field marshals or Nazi bigwigs.

Jim

jmace57 · 11-30-2012, 09:59 PM

My Dad was a combat infantryman (76th Division) in WWII and he said the Germans generally shot anyone they captured that had any souveniers (especially captured weapons) so very few people held on to them during the fighting. He acquired a unfired Walther PP during a mass surrender on the very last day or so of the war. He indicated that a LOT of the "captured" weapons people brought home were acquired at that time or after the armistice. Not very romantic, eh?

PS - the Walther has still never been fired.

Jim K · 12-01-2012, 03:44 PM

Most of the German rifles "captured in hand to hand combat with Hermann Goering himself" were actually taken from stacks of guns taken from prisoners or from German depots by troops getting ready to return to the States. No American combat soldier could have hauled around his own rifle plus a captured rifle.

Enemy pistols were another matter as they could be tucked in a pack or duffle bag. But there was a downside. One commander prohibited his men from keeping German pistols; he complained that he had had more men wounded or killed from playing around with unfamiliar pistols than he had lost in combat!

Jim

Doc O. · 12-07-2012, 09:03 AM

Thank you all for the info!
Also wanted to ask about what the typical markings/stampings should be on a WWII official issue PP holster. I am familiar with the D.R.G.M. and AKAH, should they always be present on a military holster and also should there always be a waffenamt stamp on the holster?
Thanks again.

jmace57 · 12-07-2012, 02:01 PM

I am looking at the holster from my Dad's and it has stamped in it:

1944

then something that looks like ? (unknown) then ASU

Then a waffenamt eagle with WaA170

Jim K · 12-07-2012, 02:34 PM

AKAH (Albrecht Kind) was and is a German sporting goods company, like Cabela's. Many members of the German armed forces and Nazi organizations purchased their holsters. But AKAH didn't really make anything (again like Cabela's), so most of the military contracts went to the actual makers, not to retailers like AKAH.

DRGM (Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchsmuster or, loosely, German Registered Design) is like "Patented"; it can appear on anything made by anyone.

Jmace57, are you sure those letters are not "hsu" which would be Sparfeld, Leipzig. That was one of several leather and equipment companies that inspector 170 was responsible for. For large factories, like Mauser or Krupp, the WaffenAmt had a full time inspection team and the number represents the team commander. But where several small contractors were in the same area, they brought thier products to a central point for inspection and acceptance (and receipt of payment vouchers), so all the products had the same inspector's number.

Jim

jmace57 · 12-07-2012, 05:13 PM

I think you are right Jim. It is sort of worn right where that letter is. (The gun sat in the holster for 65 years) It could well be hsu.

11-29-2012, 01:41 PM	#1
Doc O. Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 5	WW II Walther PP holster question. Links below are pictures of a WWII-vintage Walther PP holster which I am curious about. It does not look like a typical wermacht-issue PP holster. It does, however, have a waffenamt stamp with eagle on the back and it was captured from an SS officer. I thought perhaps it was a replacement non-PP holster the officer was using but no other WWII german pistol fits in it properly. Perhaps some of the SS had their own syle holster? Anyone seen anything like this? http://www.gunsinternational.com/pop...295671-3-L.jpg http://www.gunsinternational.com/pop...95671-11-L.jpg -->

11-29-2012, 01:47 PM	#2
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. That looks like a Luger holster; it should swallow up a PP. I doubt very much that the gun was issued with that holster; more likely the two came together after capture. Jim

11-29-2012, 02:51 PM	#3
jim brady Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 1,070	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. Doc, that PP should rattle around in that Luger holster like a BB in a boxcar. No way that pistol and holster were issued together. Like Jim said, bet they came together just to get it home semi-protected. Both are very nice, though.

11-29-2012, 04:25 PM	#4
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,484	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. If I didn't know it was captured from a SS officer . I would think those two items came together during a poker game and was the result of a straight flush. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 11-29-2012 at 04:27 PM..

11-29-2012, 07:54 PM	#5
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. Not many vets ever admitted to having won souvenir guns in poker games. They were always taken off at least generals, but more often field marshals or Nazi bigwigs. Jim

11-30-2012, 09:59 PM	#6
jmace57 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 119	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. My Dad was a combat infantryman (76th Division) in WWII and he said the Germans generally shot anyone they captured that had any souveniers (especially captured weapons) so very few people held on to them during the fighting. He acquired a unfired Walther PP during a mass surrender on the very last day or so of the war. He indicated that a LOT of the "captured" weapons people brought home were acquired at that time or after the armistice. Not very romantic, eh? PS - the Walther has still never been fired.

12-01-2012, 03:44 PM	#7
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. Most of the German rifles "captured in hand to hand combat with Hermann Goering himself" were actually taken from stacks of guns taken from prisoners or from German depots by troops getting ready to return to the States. No American combat soldier could have hauled around his own rifle plus a captured rifle. Enemy pistols were another matter as they could be tucked in a pack or duffle bag. But there was a downside. One commander prohibited his men from keeping German pistols; he complained that he had had more men wounded or killed from playing around with unfamiliar pistols than he had lost in combat! Jim

12-07-2012, 09:03 AM	#8
Doc O. Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 5	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. Thank you all for the info! Also wanted to ask about what the typical markings/stampings should be on a WWII official issue PP holster. I am familiar with the D.R.G.M. and AKAH, should they always be present on a military holster and also should there always be a waffenamt stamp on the holster? Thanks again.

12-07-2012, 02:01 PM	#9
jmace57 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 119	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. I am looking at the holster from my Dad's and it has stamped in it: 1944 then something that looks like ? (unknown) then ASU Then a waffenamt eagle with WaA170

12-07-2012, 02:34 PM	#10
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. AKAH (Albrecht Kind) was and is a German sporting goods company, like Cabela's. Many members of the German armed forces and Nazi organizations purchased their holsters. But AKAH didn't really make anything (again like Cabela's), so most of the military contracts went to the actual makers, not to retailers like AKAH. DRGM (Deutsches Reichs Gebrauchsmuster or, loosely, German Registered Design) is like "Patented"; it can appear on anything made by anyone. Jmace57, are you sure those letters are not "hsu" which would be Sparfeld, Leipzig. That was one of several leather and equipment companies that inspector 170 was responsible for. For large factories, like Mauser or Krupp, the WaffenAmt had a full time inspection team and the number represents the team commander. But where several small contractors were in the same area, they brought thier products to a central point for inspection and acceptance (and receipt of payment vouchers), so all the products had the same inspector's number. Jim

12-07-2012, 05:13 PM	#11
jmace57 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 119	Re: WW II Walther PP holster question. I think you are right Jim. It is sort of worn right where that letter is. (The gun sat in the holster for 65 years) It could well be hsu.