Is this a real C96 Red 9

kretzj · 12-09-2012, 12:04 AM

I am interested in this gun but the 9 does not look right. I have gone through several pictures and the bottom hook part of the nine is closer to the main loop of the nine. Also the number grooves is ~33. All the pictures of authentic guns had ~24 grooves yet http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html says he has seen one with 33. The rest of the gun looks like it has all the proper markings including the 500 meter sight. Opinions?

kretzj · 12-09-2012, 12:09 AM

Sorry. Posted the wrong pictures. This gun was another one I was looking at. This was a 1920s rework with the shortened barrel. I wanted a 9mm gun. Is this worth $1500?

Jon

kretzj · 12-09-2012, 12:12 AM

Here are the pics of the one I mentioned in the first post. The 9 looks off but the rest of the gun looks great. I want to "pull the trigger" and buy one but I do not want to buy a fake.

Jon

Dog Soldier · 12-09-2012, 12:37 AM

That looks like a C36 "Bolo" Broom Handle. I have one like that in 9MM converted by a Company in Ohio many years ago. These were not chambered in 9MM caliber.

Alpo · 12-09-2012, 07:28 AM

I don't know if that one is authentic or not, but I do know that basing an opinion on the authenticity of a gun on something that is easily replaced with a screwdriver is idiotic.

I've got a pair of red-9 grips floating around here somewhere. Bought them for my gun, as the grips on mine are wrong (standard grips). I know the red-9 grips I bought are reproductions. Their being fakes, however, do not prove my gun to be either fake or real.

deadin · 12-09-2012, 09:16 AM

The rear sight is correct for the 9mm.

ignats · 12-09-2012, 12:54 PM

The sight is correct per Breathed & Schroeder's book, System Mauser and the serial number falls into the 9mm Para chambered Mauser pistols. There should be a German Army acceptance stamp on the right side of the chamber. The stamp on the left side is a commercial proof. According to the book the grips should be walnut with 24 grooves, I counted 29 on the gun in the picture. Those may be reproductions.

Be careful. Tons of these pistols were imported during the 80's from China. Most were in NRA "AWFUL" condition but some were okay. Most were chambered in 30 Mauser but the barrels were so poor that they were redone in 9mm others were sleeved back to .30 cal.

JLA · 12-09-2012, 01:57 PM

It greatly depends on how you define the word 'real'..

Real, as in a C96 pattern that fires 9mm luger, then hell yes. enjoy..

Real, as in Authentic 'Red 9', probably not, the red 9s are extremely rare and highly desireable. And id wager 99% of them are safely ratholed away in the hands of collectors.

Either way youve got a cool handgun.. Prolly as cool if not a little more cool than, dare I say.. the 1911..

kretzj · 12-10-2012, 05:46 AM

Here are some marks off this gun.

Jon

Jim K · 12-10-2012, 12:30 PM

There is no "Red Nine" serial number range; those guns were numbered in their own range.

Jim

kretzj · 12-10-2012, 12:48 PM

I am not sure what else to check to see if it is a real RED 9. I heard that it should have a notch on the magwell follower.

Jon

kretzj · 12-11-2012, 08:40 AM

any more comments?

Paul Curtis · 01-14-2013, 09:11 PM

Two of the main criteria have been, from my experience, met here- to wit; 9mm rather than .30 Mauser, and the pre-1920 ill-founded 3.99" maximum barrel length, instead of the 5.5" as previous to that date. You might remember than the whole rational for so marking the grips of these C96 Mausers in 9mm was to aid Germans in combat- as to using the same 9mm Parabellum "Patronen"- bullets that is- in either a Luger or the 9mm Mauser-- If they had not done this, it would have been as confusing as having the German "Soldaten" carrying both M98 Mauser rifles in both 7x57mm and also the std 7.9 (aka- 8) x57mm calibers. Common ammunition for all issued and in the case of Officers purchased sidearms, was essential. So many of these C96 Pistolen were marked on their wooden grips in the field by the German armorers.

Also consider that WW1 used up a great amount of walnut from Europe- rifles stocks, pistol grips, propellers, and then in the case of handgun grips so made, what the mud, rain, snow and blood of such warfare may have done to the grips-- most likely many C96 and Luger pistols so equipped were refitted with replacement grips later, as well as possibly having their barrels shortened to the 1920 Post-War reparations acts regulations.

$1500 for a good clean shooter is not too far out of the line-up, but ask for a complete strip, re-assembly and firing test before you buy it at any price. If the seller wavers, pass it up. I have a few private leads on both Red Nine C96 and both Turkish and Persian Contract models, but they will put a dent in your 401 K-as far as asking prices. Scarcity and original condition are the linchpins to the higher collector grade prices for German pistols.

12-09-2012, 12:04 AM	#1
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Is this a real C96 Red 9 I am interested in this gun but the 9 does not look right. I have gone through several pictures and the bottom hook part of the nine is closer to the main loop of the nine. Also the number grooves is ~33. All the pictures of authentic guns had ~24 grooves yet http://askmisterscience.com/1896mauserbackup/index.html says he has seen one with 33. The rest of the gun looks like it has all the proper markings including the 500 meter sight. Opinions? Attached Images -->

12-09-2012, 12:09 AM	#2
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 Sorry. Posted the wrong pictures. This gun was another one I was looking at. This was a 1920s rework with the shortened barrel. I wanted a 9mm gun. Is this worth $1500? Jon Attached Images

12-09-2012, 12:12 AM	#3
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 Here are the pics of the one I mentioned in the first post. The 9 looks off but the rest of the gun looks great. I want to "pull the trigger" and buy one but I do not want to buy a fake. Jon Attached Images

12-09-2012, 12:37 AM	#4
Dog Soldier V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Great Desert Posts: 154	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 That looks like a C36 "Bolo" Broom Handle. I have one like that in 9MM converted by a Company in Ohio many years ago. These were not chambered in 9MM caliber.

12-09-2012, 07:28 AM	#5
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,647	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 I don't know if that one is authentic or not, but I do know that basing an opinion on the authenticity of a gun on something that is easily replaced with a screwdriver is idiotic. I've got a pair of red-9 grips floating around here somewhere. Bought them for my gun, as the grips on mine are wrong (standard grips). I know the red-9 grips I bought are reproductions. Their being fakes, however, do not prove my gun to be either fake or real. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

12-09-2012, 09:16 AM	#6
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 The rear sight is correct for the 9mm.

12-09-2012, 12:54 PM	#7
ignats V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 93	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 The sight is correct per Breathed & Schroeder's book, System Mauser and the serial number falls into the 9mm Para chambered Mauser pistols. There should be a German Army acceptance stamp on the right side of the chamber. The stamp on the left side is a commercial proof. According to the book the grips should be walnut with 24 grooves, I counted 29 on the gun in the picture. Those may be reproductions. Be careful. Tons of these pistols were imported during the 80's from China. Most were in NRA "AWFUL" condition but some were okay. Most were chambered in 30 Mauser but the barrels were so poor that they were redone in 9mm others were sleeved back to .30 cal. Last edited by ignats; 12-09-2012 at 12:58 PM..

12-09-2012, 01:57 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,294	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 It greatly depends on how you define the word 'real'.. Real, as in a C96 pattern that fires 9mm luger, then hell yes. enjoy.. Real, as in Authentic 'Red 9', probably not, the red 9s are extremely rare and highly desireable. And id wager 99% of them are safely ratholed away in the hands of collectors. Either way youve got a cool handgun.. Prolly as cool if not a little more cool than, dare I say.. the 1911.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 12-09-2012 at 01:58 PM..

12-10-2012, 05:46 AM	#9
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 Here are some marks off this gun. Jon Attached Images

12-10-2012, 12:30 PM	#10
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 There is no "Red Nine" serial number range; those guns were numbered in their own range. Jim

12-10-2012, 12:48 PM	#11
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 I am not sure what else to check to see if it is a real RED 9. I heard that it should have a notch on the magwell follower. Jon

12-11-2012, 08:40 AM	#12
kretzj Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 6	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 any more comments?

01-14-2013, 09:11 PM	#13
Paul Curtis Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ohio Posts: 33	Re: Is this a real C96 Red 9 Two of the main criteria have been, from my experience, met here- to wit; 9mm rather than .30 Mauser, and the pre-1920 ill-founded 3.99" maximum barrel length, instead of the 5.5" as previous to that date. You might remember than the whole rational for so marking the grips of these C96 Mausers in 9mm was to aid Germans in combat- as to using the same 9mm Parabellum "Patronen"- bullets that is- in either a Luger or the 9mm Mauser-- If they had not done this, it would have been as confusing as having the German "Soldaten" carrying both M98 Mauser rifles in both 7x57mm and also the std 7.9 (aka- 8) x57mm calibers. Common ammunition for all issued and in the case of Officers purchased sidearms, was essential. So many of these C96 Pistolen were marked on their wooden grips in the field by the German armorers. Also consider that WW1 used up a great amount of walnut from Europe- rifles stocks, pistol grips, propellers, and then in the case of handgun grips so made, what the mud, rain, snow and blood of such warfare may have done to the grips-- most likely many C96 and Luger pistols so equipped were refitted with replacement grips later, as well as possibly having their barrels shortened to the 1920 Post-War reparations acts regulations. $1500 for a good clean shooter is not too far out of the line-up, but ask for a complete strip, re-assembly and firing test before you buy it at any price. If the seller wavers, pass it up. I have a few private leads on both Red Nine C96 and both Turkish and Persian Contract models, but they will put a dent in your 401 K-as far as asking prices. Scarcity and original condition are the linchpins to the higher collector grade prices for German pistols. __________________ "Nothing runs like a Deere-unless you put a 180 grainer in its engine room!!"