Brass quality ( Headstamps ) - The Firearms Forum

AR guy · 03-07-2013, 09:40 PM

As I'm going thru the shells I just got for 9mm. I'm seeing a lot of different Headstamps. I got winchester, FC, PMC, PPU, Blazer, Speer, SRP, GFL, WCC. Now out of those I got so far is there a big quality difference between them or are they the same. I wanted to sort the brass and keep the better brass for hollow points and the lesser for lead bullets. I just don't know which is better than the other. So in you opinion is there a difference?

Alpo · 03-07-2013, 10:54 PM

You got Federal Cartridge, Pansun Metallic Cartridge (also sold as El Dorado), Prvi Partisan, CCI Blazer, CCI Speer, don't know what SRP is (although SBP is Seller and Bellot - Prague), Fiocchi (don't know why "GFL", but that's who they are) and Western Cartridge Company.

All good brands (as long as the Blazer is the brass ones - not the aluminum ones). I don't see any reason to sort the way you are talking.

If you ever get any called A-MERC, throw it in the trash.

steve4102 · 03-08-2013, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpo

Fiocchi (don't know why "GFL",

.

GFL = Giulio Fiocchi, Lecco, Italy

X Ring · 03-08-2013, 03:20 AM

The PMC headstamp is for Pan Metal Corp. Here is a brief company history.
http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/ga...1/PMC.jpg.html
It is good brass and I see no good reason to go to all the trouble of keeping any handgun brass separate. Except as noted above that A-Merc junk.

Zhurh · 03-08-2013, 06:13 AM

I load more 6.8 than any other round. I have SSA & Hornady brass, bought new, have reloaded 5-6 times. I like the SSA brass over the Hornaday; everything goes better with the SSA. I don't know enough concerning brass other than visual defects that you can see. I've heard other people prefer the SSA brass too. I'm just trying to figure out why I like the SSA so much more?

76Highboy · 03-08-2013, 06:47 AM

I would not sort them in fact I never sort them. As far as accuracy all the different brass mixed together is still going to shoot better then most shooters can off hand anyway. That's just me. I load and go and don't like to stop and sort.

AR guy · 03-08-2013, 07:35 AM

Ok great that saves a lot of hassle. Thanks.

LDBennett · 03-08-2013, 07:37 AM

Don't use any CBC brass.

I got some bargain 50BMG CBC new brass that was so thin that when processed it had zero neck tension on the bullet. Replacing it with Lake City once fired Military brass solved the neck tension problem. It was not the dies or the bullet as all measured correctly. The CBC (Brazilian, I believe) brass was definitely too thin in the walls.

LDBennett

north tex · 03-08-2013, 08:35 AM

I've had some 9mm FC brass that appeared to be the same headstamp but the lettering depth was shallower. When loading them and spot checking the loaded weights I found that the shallow headstamp ones were 5 to 7 grains heavier than the others. Some heavy ones got broken down and I found the powder weight was okay. I then weighed the brass and that's when I discovered the ones with the shallow headstamp were an average 6 grains heavier. Same company, but apparently the brass came from a different supplier. So now I look for that particular headstamp 'cause 5+ grains is a big difference in a 9mm.

Alpo · 03-08-2013, 09:12 AM

I use CBC brass all the time. Pistol and shotgun. I don't have any rifle, and certainly no 50 BMG. Never any problems with the stuff I have.

I have found that Federal 32 ACP is crap to load, as is any nickel 32 ACP. Comes up with a large bulge. Haven't had that problem with any other 32 case, or any other caliber case, period, so I have to presume it is that brand. I have, however, no problems with other Federal brass. Just the 32.

AR guy · 03-08-2013, 06:05 PM

I found a lot of CBC brass in my second half.

soundguy · 03-08-2013, 07:39 PM

about the only 1x fired brass I ever had an issue with was hornady.

I had some ancient greek i had to retire.. but it had many many loads on it.. ( rifle )

LDBennett · 03-08-2013, 08:46 PM

The 30-06 CMP sells for Garands is Greek. I reload but my son-in-law does not. He gives me all his empties. I have reloaded some of it and it is really good stuff. It is boxer primed, non-corrosive, so the brass just needs normal processing.

I bought a 1000 once fired 308 Lake City brass that was also excellent. It processed just like my own fired brass, no problem.

When I buy new brass it is either Remington (usual for rifle) and Winchester (usually for pistol) but it what my supplier stocks. In a recent magazine test of brass between American brass, and European brass, there was no significant difference in the life of the brass. Paying extra for European brass may not be justified (??) but you decide for yourself. I am perfectly happy with my choices.

LDBennett

woolleyworm · 03-08-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AR guy

I found a lot of CBC brass in my second half.

CBC is MagTech and in .32's, 38's and 45's, I've never had an issue. On a side ote, I use alot of MagTech primers and haven't had a single issue with them either.

LDBennett · 03-08-2013, 09:00 PM

I bought 50 new CBC cases for 50BMG at nearly a buck apiece. That's $50 CBC got from me for cases that I can not use. They have some salvage value as brass but not nearly what I have in them. I'll not let CBC get me again. They are on my "Do Not Use" list of manufactures.

What is it about Brazilian products? There is Taurus, and Rossi guns that I bought only to be frustrated and disappointed. They are on that same list.

LDBennett

soundguy · 03-08-2013, 09:04 PM

yep... that greek I have is cmp 3006

and good brass. I bet it is from the 60's or so.

I know I have 10 loads on some batches. I have had to cull a few due to fissures starting.. and one that had a weird primer pocket fissure that actually let a curl of smoke come out the breech and bolt of my rem 700 after fireing. just slowly rolled out after shooting.. ejecting the cartridge and then depriming showed the flaw inthe pocket. again. must have 10 relaods on them.. so they owe me nothing if I have to cull a few.

I have maybee 250 of them left now.

if i get new brass it's usually win or remington. win is more prevalant around here with rem and hornady also available. I avoid hornady brass at all costs.. I loose ( have lost ) too many decap pins to it.. they seem to like to put the flash hole in different spots than everyone else

dunno.. maybee they have changed.. I ain't taking t he chance. last time I did.. it bent the stem in my rcbs die and I had to repalce it. because of that I got a lee universal decapper. i don't mind sacrificing it for 10$ ( hopefully it's collet will simply slip ).. but I'm not subjecting anymore 35$ die sets to hornady brass with random flash holes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

The 30-06 CMP sells for Garands is Greek. I reload but my son-in-law does not. He gives me all his empties. I have reloaded some of it and it is really good stuff. It is boxer primed, non-corrosive, so the brass just needs normal processing.

I bought a 1000 once fired 308 Lake City brass that was also excellent. It processed just like my own fired brass, no problem.

When I buy new brass it is either Remington (usual for rifle) and Winchester (usually for pistol) but it what my supplier stocks. In a recent magazine test of brass between American brass, and European brass, there was no significant difference in the life of the brass. Paying extra for European brass may not be justified (??) but you decide for yourself. I am perfectly happy with my choices.

LDBennett

steve4102 · 03-08-2013, 09:40 PM

As Stated above. CBC=Magtech=good stuff.

If you have CBC brass and you believe the hype that it is "bad", send it to me, I will pay shipping .

soundguy · 03-08-2013, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LDBennett

What is it about Brazilian products? There is Taurus, and Rossi guns that I bought only to be frustrated and disappointed. They are on that same list.

LDBennett

what tarus/rossi did you have issues with. admitedly I only have 3 of those products.. but all are superb in function.

a tarus 85 with a bobed hammer 38spl snub.. dao fit / function are fine. grips are minscule.. but houge makes a fix for that.

a circuit judge.. love it for a camp gun/carbine.

and a 38 spl lever gun. wish i had held out for the 357 ver.. but this one came up for a good price and i took the line.

can't say i've had a failure of any sort an any of the 3 ever.

were yours fit / finish issus or operational issues, if you care to say?

Alpo · 03-08-2013, 11:50 PM

I understand the frustration.

I've had three Charter Arms, in my life. All three were - well, let's just say I was less than satisfied. I won't get another Charter, and warn people away from them.

I've had personal experience with two Tauruses. Again, won't mess with 'em, and warn people away from 'em.

Rossi, however. I got five of their rifles and two of their shotguns. Great guns.

LDBennett · 03-09-2013, 06:51 AM

soundguy:

TAURUS:

PT99 semi-auto 9mm pistol**** shot sight off the gun two times, finally fixed it myself but other than that it was a good gun made on equipment left behind in Brazil by Beretta. The change by Taurus was the adjustable rear sight which shot off twice.

Thunderbolt Pump rifle (clone of Colt Lightning 45LC centerfire pump)****Would not feed ammo made to industry specification for cartridge overall length. Feed mechanism required some "adjustment" for reliable feeding. Accuracy not up to par with all the Browning and Winchester lever guns in my collection.

Model 63 semi-auto 22LR rifle****required "adjustments" to feeding system. Accuracy sub-par and only increased slightly after some fire honing with special cartridges.

ROSSI:

Rossi 22LR pump (clone of Winchester 22 pump)**** Was never accurate when compared to an original well used Winchester I got later.

Taurus now owns Rossi and their version of the 22 pump might be (???) better than when Rossi was on its own 20 years ago when I had mine.

While not a great number of Brazilian guns, all that I have had included problems that required me to solve and, in the cases of the rifles, accuracy was not equivalent to similar guns in my collection which includes 100 year old examples. The experiences with these guns has kept me from buying anymore Brazilian guns and now their CBC brass as well.

LDBennett

soundguy · 03-09-2013, 04:14 PM

sound slike all non revolver issues. may be why I havn't seen any problems. as my 2 are revolvers.. pluf that one lever gun.. which actually strokes nicely.

11B-101ABN · 03-09-2013, 11:06 PM

I don't think anybody has mentioned primer crimps yet, I have had to dig them out of a lot of FC and WCC brass in 9mm. You can punch out the old primers easy enough, but if you don't get the crimp out you may have a hard time getting new primers in.

LDBennett · 03-10-2013, 09:29 AM

11B-101ABN:

That's the price you pay for using ex-Military brass. Commercial brass by major companies rarely if ever includes crimped-in primers. I think you got some FC and WCC brass that was ex-Military. That is one of the problems with buying once fired brass from just anyone or using range pickup brass.

I will use and have used Military brass for 308, 30-06, and 50BMG but not for pistol calibers or any other rifle calibers (if it is even available for them). Too much work for too little savings.

LDBennett

Kestral · 03-10-2013, 11:42 AM

Ive been using Magtech for 15yrs at least,in every pistol calibre they make,never had a problem, reload their cases many many times over, with both lead & jkt, very pleased indead. The only ammo of theirs that ive had probs with is their 22lr, you get the occassional box that has 3 or 4 rds that no matter where you hit the rim it wont go off. I also am still reloading 9mm IMI( Israeli ) cases that I purchased in 1978, & ive lost count of the number of times theve been done. main reason I suppose is that I never reload to max,just a nice steady little bit over over target strength.Cases I dont like is Privi Partizan.especially in 44 mag, no matter what set of dies I use,or factory jkt or lead bullet the case interior is always to wide or the walls to thin & the bullet falls to the bottom,or still rotates even after a heavy crimp.

03-07-2013, 09:40 PM	#1
AR guy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Joliet, Illinois Posts: 558	Brass quality ( Headstamps ) As I'm going thru the shells I just got for 9mm. I'm seeing a lot of different Headstamps. I got winchester, FC, PMC, PPU, Blazer, Speer, SRP, GFL, WCC. Now out of those I got so far is there a big quality difference between them or are they the same. I wanted to sort the brass and keep the better brass for hollow points and the lesser for lead bullets. I just don't know which is better than the other. So in you opinion is there a difference? __________________ * Don't be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his. * * Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. * * Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn't give a hoot and hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor ever lose a war.* George S. Patton (1885-1945) *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing * Edmond Burke -->

03-07-2013, 10:54 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) You got Federal Cartridge, Pansun Metallic Cartridge (also sold as El Dorado), Prvi Partisan, CCI Blazer, CCI Speer, don't know what SRP is (although SBP is Seller and Bellot - Prague), Fiocchi (don't know why "GFL", but that's who they are) and Western Cartridge Company. All good brands (as long as the Blazer is the brass ones - not the aluminum ones). I don't see any reason to sort the way you are talking. If you ever get any called A-MERC, throw it in the trash. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-08-2013, 03:20 AM	#4
X Ring V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Ohio Posts: 190	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) The PMC headstamp is for Pan Metal Corp. Here is a brief company history. http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/ga...1/PMC.jpg.html It is good brass and I see no good reason to go to all the trouble of keeping any handgun brass separate. Except as noted above that A-Merc junk. __________________ Load More = Shoot More http://s1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/Wynn3/

03-08-2013, 06:13 AM	#5
Zhurh Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Upper Yukon, Alaska Posts: 1,820	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I load more 6.8 than any other round. I have SSA & Hornady brass, bought new, have reloaded 5-6 times. I like the SSA brass over the Hornaday; everything goes better with the SSA. I don't know enough concerning brass other than visual defects that you can see. I've heard other people prefer the SSA brass too. I'm just trying to figure out why I like the SSA so much more?

03-08-2013, 06:47 AM	#6
76Highboy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Meridian, Idaho Contributor Posts: 6,968	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I would not sort them in fact I never sort them. As far as accuracy all the different brass mixed together is still going to shoot better then most shooters can off hand anyway. That's just me. I load and go and don't like to stop and sort.

03-08-2013, 07:35 AM	#7
AR guy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Joliet, Illinois Posts: 558	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) Ok great that saves a lot of hassle. Thanks. __________________ * Don't be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his. * * Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. * * Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn't give a hoot and hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor ever lose a war.* George S. Patton (1885-1945) *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing * Edmond Burke

03-08-2013, 07:37 AM	#8
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,718	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) Don't use any CBC brass. I got some bargain 50BMG CBC new brass that was so thin that when processed it had zero neck tension on the bullet. Replacing it with Lake City once fired Military brass solved the neck tension problem. It was not the dies or the bullet as all measured correctly. The CBC (Brazilian, I believe) brass was definitely too thin in the walls. LDBennett

03-08-2013, 08:35 AM	#9
north tex V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Leonard, Tx Posts: 284	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I've had some 9mm FC brass that appeared to be the same headstamp but the lettering depth was shallower. When loading them and spot checking the loaded weights I found that the shallow headstamp ones were 5 to 7 grains heavier than the others. Some heavy ones got broken down and I found the powder weight was okay. I then weighed the brass and that's when I discovered the ones with the shallow headstamp were an average 6 grains heavier. Same company, but apparently the brass came from a different supplier. So now I look for that particular headstamp 'cause 5+ grains is a big difference in a 9mm. __________________ Project 404 (1974) Vet Last edited by north tex; 03-08-2013 at 08:37 AM..

03-08-2013, 09:12 AM	#10
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I use CBC brass all the time. Pistol and shotgun. I don't have any rifle, and certainly no 50 BMG. Never any problems with the stuff I have. I have found that Federal 32 ACP is crap to load, as is any nickel 32 ACP. Comes up with a large bulge. Haven't had that problem with any other 32 case, or any other caliber case, period, so I have to presume it is that brand. I have, however, no problems with other Federal brass. Just the 32. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-08-2013, 06:05 PM	#11
AR guy Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Joliet, Illinois Posts: 558	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I found a lot of CBC brass in my second half. __________________ * Don't be a fool and die for your country. Let the other sonofabitch die for his. * * Courage is fear holding on a minute longer. * * Americans play to win at all times. I wouldn't give a hoot and hell for a man who lost and laughed. That's why Americans have never lost nor ever lose a war.* George S. Patton (1885-1945) *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing * Edmond Burke

03-08-2013, 07:39 PM	#12
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,463	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) about the only 1x fired brass I ever had an issue with was hornady. I had some ancient greek i had to retire.. but it had many many loads on it.. ( rifle )

03-08-2013, 08:46 PM	#13
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,718	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) The 30-06 CMP sells for Garands is Greek. I reload but my son-in-law does not. He gives me all his empties. I have reloaded some of it and it is really good stuff. It is boxer primed, non-corrosive, so the brass just needs normal processing. I bought a 1000 once fired 308 Lake City brass that was also excellent. It processed just like my own fired brass, no problem. When I buy new brass it is either Remington (usual for rifle) and Winchester (usually for pistol) but it what my supplier stocks. In a recent magazine test of brass between American brass, and European brass, there was no significant difference in the life of the brass. Paying extra for European brass may not be justified (??) but you decide for yourself. I am perfectly happy with my choices. LDBennett

03-08-2013, 09:00 PM	#15
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,718	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I bought 50 new CBC cases for 50BMG at nearly a buck apiece. That's $50 CBC got from me for cases that I can not use. They have some salvage value as brass but not nearly what I have in them. I'll not let CBC get me again. They are on my "Do Not Use" list of manufactures. What is it about Brazilian products? There is Taurus, and Rossi guns that I bought only to be frustrated and disappointed. They are on that same list. LDBennett

03-08-2013, 09:40 PM	#17
steve4102 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota Contributor Posts: 2,760	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) As Stated above. CBC=Magtech=good stuff. If you have CBC brass and you believe the hype that it is "bad", send it to me, I will pay shipping .

03-08-2013, 11:50 PM	#19
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,662	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I understand the frustration. I've had three Charter Arms, in my life. All three were - well, let's just say I was less than satisfied. I won't get another Charter, and warn people away from them. I've had personal experience with two Tauruses. Again, won't mess with 'em, and warn people away from 'em. Rossi, however. I got five of their rifles and two of their shotguns. Great guns. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

03-09-2013, 06:51 AM	#20
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,718	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) soundguy: TAURUS: PT99 semi-auto 9mm pistol** shot sight off the gun two times, finally fixed it myself but other than that it was a good gun made on equipment left behind in Brazil by Beretta. The change by Taurus was the adjustable rear sight which shot off twice. Thunderbolt Pump rifle (clone of Colt Lightning 45LC centerfire pump)Would not feed ammo made to industry specification for cartridge overall length. Feed mechanism required some "adjustment" for reliable feeding. Accuracy not up to par with all the Browning and Winchester lever guns in my collection. Model 63 semi-auto 22LR riflerequired "adjustments" to feeding system. Accuracy sub-par and only increased slightly after some fire honing with special cartridges. ROSSI: Rossi 22LR pump (clone of Winchester 22 pump)** Was never accurate when compared to an original well used Winchester I got later. Taurus now owns Rossi and their version of the 22 pump might be (???) better than when Rossi was on its own 20 years ago when I had mine. While not a great number of Brazilian guns, all that I have had included problems that required me to solve and, in the cases of the rifles, accuracy was not equivalent to similar guns in my collection which includes 100 year old examples. The experiences with these guns has kept me from buying anymore Brazilian guns and now their CBC brass as well. LDBennett

03-09-2013, 04:14 PM	#21
soundguy Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: florida Contributor Posts: 4,463	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) sound slike all non revolver issues. may be why I havn't seen any problems. as my 2 are revolvers.. pluf that one lever gun.. which actually strokes nicely.

03-09-2013, 11:06 PM	#22
11B-101ABN Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Eastern Iowa Posts: 15	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) I don't think anybody has mentioned primer crimps yet, I have had to dig them out of a lot of FC and WCC brass in 9mm. You can punch out the old primers easy enough, but if you don't get the crimp out you may have a hard time getting new primers in.

03-10-2013, 09:29 AM	#23
LDBennett Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Hesperia, CA Posts: 5,718	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) 11B-101ABN: That's the price you pay for using ex-Military brass. Commercial brass by major companies rarely if ever includes crimped-in primers. I think you got some FC and WCC brass that was ex-Military. That is one of the problems with buying once fired brass from just anyone or using range pickup brass. I will use and have used Military brass for 308, 30-06, and 50BMG but not for pistol calibers or any other rifle calibers (if it is even available for them). Too much work for too little savings. LDBennett

03-10-2013, 11:42 AM	#24
Kestral V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Guernsey Channel Islands Posts: 355	Re: Brass quality ( Headstamps ) Ive been using Magtech for 15yrs at least,in every pistol calibre they make,never had a problem, reload their cases many many times over, with both lead & jkt, very pleased indead. The only ammo of theirs that ive had probs with is their 22lr, you get the occassional box that has 3 or 4 rds that no matter where you hit the rim it wont go off. I also am still reloading 9mm IMI( Israeli ) cases that I purchased in 1978, & ive lost count of the number of times theve been done. main reason I suppose is that I never reload to max,just a nice steady little bit over over target strength.Cases I dont like is Privi Partizan.especially in 44 mag, no matter what set of dies I use,or factory jkt or lead bullet the case interior is always to wide or the walls to thin & the bullet falls to the bottom,or still rotates even after a heavy crimp.