Best WWII bolt action. - The Firearms Forum

Ursus · 08-04-2006, 10:25 AM

Which of the following wou'ld you say was the best WWII bolt action? Personally, I'll pick the Enfield.
Kar 98k
Lee-Enfield MK IV
Mosin Nagant
Other (specifie)

Ursus · 08-04-2006, 10:37 AM

Sorry, the poll is somewhere else. Hey it's my first time, you know?

polishshooter · 08-04-2006, 06:17 PM

Yeah, this one was going for awhile, but I'll stick my two cents in anyway!

The SMLE hands down. And NOT just because I just bought an Ishapore Mk III 2A on Wednesday EITHER....

southernshooter · 08-04-2006, 11:16 PM

Either the Enfield or the mosin nagant

Pistolenschutze · 08-06-2006, 01:25 PM

Mauser Karibiner achtzehn hundert acht und neunzehn!

Hands down.

Dave16661 · 08-14-2006, 12:14 AM

K98 hands down the best

Alakar · 08-14-2006, 04:00 PM

I would have to go with the Enfield. I remember reading a quote, can't remember from who, that stated the Springfield was the best shooters rifle, the Mauser was the best made rifle, but the Enfield was the best Battle rifle.

From all accounts I've read the Enfield was easier to produce then the Mauser, more robust then the Springfield, easier to maintain in the field then either of those and had a higher magazine capacity. Everything you would want in a rifle for general issue.

JohnGerald · 08-21-2006, 01:48 PM

The Enfield's best feature is the bolt that cocks on closing; it enables a fairly rapid rate of fire for a bolt action weapon.

MRMIKE08075 · 08-22-2006, 11:51 AM

ROSS MODEL 1905

stir, stir, stir...

best regards, mike.

DFW65 · 08-22-2006, 05:25 PM

Enfield

JohnK3 · 08-22-2006, 10:11 PM

Waitasec...The ROSS?!?!?!

Is this the straight-pull that was so poorly designed it would get reassembled incorrectly, causing all sorts of failures in the field?

Pistolenschutze · 08-23-2006, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnK3

Waitasec...The ROSS?!?!?!

Is this the straight-pull that was so poorly designed it would get reassembled incorrectly, causing all sorts of failures in the field?

Yup, that's the one, John. It was produced in Canada from 1903 until the middle of the First World War, at which point it was withdrawn from service because it was utterly unreliable in the trenches of WWI. Indeed, there was a big scandal about it at the time. Here's what it looked like:

MRMIKE08075 · 08-23-2006, 12:33 PM

Sorry...

but you are both wrong.

the ROSS MODEL 1910 had a bolt that utilized an interupted thread design, wich could be re-assembled incorrectly, causing the bolt to fail to lock into the receiver...

the Model 1905 (i own 2 examples) does not have this problem.

its the most accuratte production contract military bolt action rifle ever made...

you guys are passing on and spreading a negative firearms myth...

one of my Ross Model 1905 rifles is US ord bomb and "screaming eagle head" proofed / the US military purchased about 10,000...

the "problem" with early Ross rifles was realy an ammo problem...

anyone who owns a SMLE rifle knows that the chambers are sloppy / oversized...

this was done deliberatly, to accomadate ammo produced in differant countries, differant time periods, to differant standards, stored under differant conditions...

the original Ross rifles had match spec / grade chambers, and would not function with ammo that did not meet those standards...

this was solved by introducing the LC modification...

LARGE CHAMBER (LC) variants had there chambers "improved" to accept all encountered ammo.

i hate when firearm myths are perpetuated...

thats one of the reasons i buy many guns, to find out the truth behind the myth.

its a topic worth reseraching, if you have the time.

best regards, mike.

Pistolenschutze · 08-23-2006, 01:00 PM

Are we talking about the same rifle, Mike? I don't claim to be any sort of expert on these rifles, but the sources I've consulted do seem to indicate there were many, many problems with them. Mostly those problems had to do with poor production controls, but there was also a tendency for the rifles to become too easily clogged with dirt and mud in a field environment, and thus unreliable. There was, in fact, a major diplomatic blowup between Canada and Great Britain over production rights to the Lee Enfield, which apparently led to the development of the Ross during the Boer War. The design was supposed to be an original, but in reality it was based on the Steyr as was later proven.

And yes, you're right, a discussion of old weapons like these is always fun.

http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl24-e.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle

MRMIKE08075 · 08-23-2006, 02:05 PM

compare the bolt designs between the 1910 model and the 1905 model...

most folks are unaware that there are several differant models or that there are major design differances among them...

the dirt in chamber / failure to function in mud was an ammo problem, not an action design issue (see above referanced LC statement)

the model 1910 interrupted thread bolt design did suffer under these conditions, but not the models that came before it...

production quaulity of the 1905 model is superb, match grade / custom target rifle quality...

won the Wimbldon (sp) championships many times...

i have fired mine under adverse conditions with differant / mixed ammo without proper cleaning...

it works fine.

the US would not have purchased 10,000 of them if they were defective.

the gun in your picture is not the infamous Model 1910...

i did not know the story before i purchased the gun...

and tested it.

it functions better and is more accuratte that my K31 or .236 LEE-NAVY.

dig deeper, its a story worth learning.

best regards, mike.

blackhawkkid308 · 08-23-2006, 08:17 PM

1903a3 or the 1903 us military bolt action 30-06 and thats picking them above my swede 96's, my k-31 swiss, and my 1891 ruskie nagant. i personally prefer the m14/m1a but we are talking bolt guns here.
blackhawkkid308

08-04-2006, 10:25 AM	#1
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Best WWII bolt action. Which of the following wou'ld you say was the best WWII bolt action? Personally, I'll pick the Enfield. Kar 98k Lee-Enfield MK IV Mosin Nagant Other (specifie) -->

08-04-2006, 10:37 AM	#2
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Sorry, the poll is somewhere else. Hey it's my first time, you know?

08-04-2006, 06:17 PM	#3
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,863	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Yeah, this one was going for awhile, but I'll stick my two cents in anyway! The SMLE hands down. And NOT just because I just bought an Ishapore Mk III 2A on Wednesday EITHER.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

08-04-2006, 11:16 PM	#4
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Either the Enfield or the mosin nagant __________________ Only you can see this

08-06-2006, 01:25 PM	#5
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Mauser Karibiner achtzehn hundert acht und neunzehn! Hands down. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

08-14-2006, 12:14 AM	#6
Dave16661 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 6	Re: Best WWII bolt action. K98 hands down the best

08-14-2006, 04:00 PM	#7
Alakar Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 11	Re: Best WWII bolt action. I would have to go with the Enfield. I remember reading a quote, can't remember from who, that stated the Springfield was the best shooters rifle, the Mauser was the best made rifle, but the Enfield was the best Battle rifle. From all accounts I've read the Enfield was easier to produce then the Mauser, more robust then the Springfield, easier to maintain in the field then either of those and had a higher magazine capacity. Everything you would want in a rifle for general issue. __________________ "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom; it is the arguments of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." William Pitt the Younger

08-21-2006, 01:48 PM	#8
JohnGerald Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 19	Re: Best WWII bolt action. The Enfield's best feature is the bolt that cocks on closing; it enables a fairly rapid rate of fire for a bolt action weapon.

08-22-2006, 11:51 AM	#9
MRMIKE08075 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 384	Re: Best WWII bolt action. ROSS MODEL 1905 stir, stir, stir... best regards, mike.

08-22-2006, 05:25 PM	#10
DFW65 Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Big D Posts: 8	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Enfield

08-22-2006, 10:11 PM	#11
JohnK3 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,636	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Waitasec...The ROSS?!?!?! Is this the straight-pull that was so poorly designed it would get reassembled incorrectly, causing all sorts of failures in the field?

08-23-2006, 12:33 PM	#13
MRMIKE08075 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 384	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Sorry... but you are both wrong. the ROSS MODEL 1910 had a bolt that utilized an interupted thread design, wich could be re-assembled incorrectly, causing the bolt to fail to lock into the receiver... the Model 1905 (i own 2 examples) does not have this problem. its the most accuratte production contract military bolt action rifle ever made... you guys are passing on and spreading a negative firearms myth... one of my Ross Model 1905 rifles is US ord bomb and "screaming eagle head" proofed / the US military purchased about 10,000... the "problem" with early Ross rifles was realy an ammo problem... anyone who owns a SMLE rifle knows that the chambers are sloppy / oversized... this was done deliberatly, to accomadate ammo produced in differant countries, differant time periods, to differant standards, stored under differant conditions... the original Ross rifles had match spec / grade chambers, and would not function with ammo that did not meet those standards... this was solved by introducing the LC modification... LARGE CHAMBER (LC) variants had there chambers "improved" to accept all encountered ammo. i hate when firearm myths are perpetuated... thats one of the reasons i buy many guns, to find out the truth behind the myth. its a topic worth reseraching, if you have the time. best regards, mike.

08-23-2006, 01:00 PM	#14
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Best WWII bolt action. Are we talking about the same rifle, Mike? I don't claim to be any sort of expert on these rifles, but the sources I've consulted do seem to indicate there were many, many problems with them. Mostly those problems had to do with poor production controls, but there was also a tendency for the rifles to become too easily clogged with dirt and mud in a field environment, and thus unreliable. There was, in fact, a major diplomatic blowup between Canada and Great Britain over production rights to the Lee Enfield, which apparently led to the development of the Ross during the Boer War. The design was supposed to be an original, but in reality it was based on the Steyr as was later proven. And yes, you're right, a discussion of old weapons like these is always fun. http://world.guns.ru/rifle/rfl24-e.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_rifle __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

08-23-2006, 02:05 PM	#15
MRMIKE08075 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 384	Re: Best WWII bolt action. compare the bolt designs between the 1910 model and the 1905 model... most folks are unaware that there are several differant models or that there are major design differances among them... the dirt in chamber / failure to function in mud was an ammo problem, not an action design issue (see above referanced LC statement) the model 1910 interrupted thread bolt design did suffer under these conditions, but not the models that came before it... production quaulity of the 1905 model is superb, match grade / custom target rifle quality... won the Wimbldon (sp) championships many times... i have fired mine under adverse conditions with differant / mixed ammo without proper cleaning... it works fine. the US would not have purchased 10,000 of them if they were defective. the gun in your picture is not the infamous Model 1910... i did not know the story before i purchased the gun... and tested it. it functions better and is more accuratte that my K31 or .236 LEE-NAVY. dig deeper, its a story worth learning. best regards, mike.

08-23-2006, 08:17 PM	#16
blackhawkkid308 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: pensacola florida Posts: 871	Re: Best WWII bolt action. 1903a3 or the 1903 us military bolt action 30-06 and thats picking them above my swede 96's, my k-31 swiss, and my 1891 ruskie nagant. i personally prefer the m14/m1a but we are talking bolt guns here. blackhawkkid308 __________________ 9-11-01 lest we forget AMEN