1907 Army trials. - The Firearms Forum

Ursus · 09-18-2006, 06:16 AM

In 1907, the U.S. Army called for entris in a series of trials that would culminate in the adoption of a semiauto, as their official sidearm. Five pistols, all in .45 ACP were submitted. Only two were recommended for Service Test and two hundred of each were ordered an issued to cavalry troops for a trial period of at least one year. One of these, was the Colt wich eventually become the 1911. Wich was the other?

Deputy Dawg · 09-18-2006, 07:47 AM

It was the Savage.I wished I had one of the few made because they would be woth a fortune.I have a Savage 1907 in 32ACP.Personally I think the millitary made the right choise going with the John Browning gun that is known today as the 1911.

polishshooter · 09-18-2006, 11:18 PM

It was the Savage, the Luger was only one of the other 5, and only TWO in .45 were supposedly made for the test, even though there is only ONE known to be in existence today, and is worth at LEAT $1M....I look CLOSELY at EVERY yard sale I'm at to see if i can find the second one....

The Savage supposedly did fine in the trials too, some troopers liked it BETTER than the Colt...I think it broke down more often in service though...but I'm kind of wondering why it wasn't made commercially in any big numbers...

Xracer · 09-19-2006, 08:22 AM

Well, the Savage didn't do all that well at the various trials. It had a number of parts failures in the early trials, and when the Gov't called for design changes for subsequent trials, Savage, being a small (and rather underfinanced) company had a difficult time meeting the deadlines for further trials tests. In fact, a number of the subsequent trials had to be delayed until Savage could incorporate the necessary changes in their design.

Colt, on the other hand, was a large company, with a healthy bank account, and a large R&D tool room and J.M. Browning was staying at Colt during the various trials, and was able to make engineering changes quickly.

Savage made 200 (plus maybe a few more) .45s for the field trials in 1907. These were issued to various U.S. Calvary troops for testing. After the trials were over, these pistols were eventually returned to Savage who refurbished them and they were sold thru F. Bannerman Arms in New York.

So......there are still some Savage .45s out there, and they come up for sale every now and then, but for really BIG BUCK$.

As for the 2 (maybe) Luger .45s, nobody really knows what happened to them.....and as for finding one at a yard sale, Polish.....Good Luck!

FYI.....A good source of info on the .45 trials is found in the book, "Handguns Of The World" by Edward C. Ezell.

Ursus · 09-19-2006, 03:22 PM

My heart pounded a year ago when a friend of mine told me that he had a Luger 45. Feeling all that money coming to me I rushed faster than Superman would, only to discover... What else but a 9mm Luger, with 45 stamped on it? Of course that should had been DOM. My friend was lucky the dammned thing wasn't load or I could...
It was in bad condition and had been refinished in nickel. (Altough it was mostly a rusty finish what it had)

polishshooter · 09-19-2006, 09:05 PM

Thanks, X!

But then again some Gyrenes preferred the JOHNSON to the Garand too...

And I BETCHA you just might find at least ONE Marine who just might say "I kinda liked the Reising too...."

Pistolenschutze · 09-20-2006, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xracer

As for the 2 (maybe) Luger .45s, nobody really knows what happened to them.....and as for finding one at a yard sale, Polish.....Good Luck!

I read about those, X, and they've always intrigued me. It's known that Luger built a couple, but no one knows what happened to them. Actually, I should think they would have been pretty neat pistols. The .45 ACP coupled with fine German technology . . .

Ursus · 09-20-2006, 05:21 PM

In 1994, I read the story about one of the two only .45 Lugers ever produced. This story was in Guns and Ammo June, July or August issue. (I have this magazine stashed somewhere around), The owner of the pistol at that time was one Michael Zomber, a SAN FRANCISCO gun collector. Estimated value of the .45 Luger at that time was 1 million US$, so I hope Mr. Zomber had moved away from SF, to protect his investment. No one knows the whereabout of the other .45 Luger. It's supposed that the lost one was the actually used in the 1907 Army Trial. Mr. Zomber's was the backup gun.

polishshooter · 09-20-2006, 08:57 PM

Yeah, Ursus, I read the same article, which is why I posted about the SECOND....it's out there SOMEWHERE, unless the darn Germans tookl it BACK and converted it to 9mm or something stupid...

southernshooter · 09-20-2006, 09:10 PM

Unfortunetly that old of a gun could have been lost in a fire or theft.
What a shame it is in San Fran

Pistolenschutze · 09-21-2006, 12:37 AM

Hey Polish, maybe they should look at a Luger in .45 ACP as a replacement for that POS Beretta!

Since it is a German design it would work perfectly (that is axiomatic), and in a .45 ACP chambering it might actually hit hard enough to do mor than "make a little man sick and a big man mad."

View Poll Results: Wich was the forerruner in the 1907 U.S. Army trials?
Knoble	0	0%
Bergmann	0	0%
Luger	1	14.29%
Savage	6	85.71%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

09-18-2006, 06:16 AM	#1
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	1907 Army trials. In 1907, the U.S. Army called for entris in a series of trials that would culminate in the adoption of a semiauto, as their official sidearm. Five pistols, all in .45 ACP were submitted. Only two were recommended for Service Test and two hundred of each were ordered an issued to cavalry troops for a trial period of at least one year. One of these, was the Colt wich eventually become the 1911. Wich was the other? __________________ SI VIS PACEM, PARABELLUM. -->

09-18-2006, 07:47 AM	#2
Deputy Dawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Central Texas Gulf Coast Posts: 2,234	Re: 1907 Army trials. It was the Savage.I wished I had one of the few made because they would be woth a fortune.I have a Savage 1907 in 32ACP.Personally I think the millitary made the right choise going with the John Browning gun that is known today as the 1911. __________________ LOCK and LOAD................................... GOD, GUNS,GUTS the three that keep us FREE!!!!

09-18-2006, 11:18 PM	#3
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: 1907 Army trials. It was the Savage, the Luger was only one of the other 5, and only TWO in .45 were supposedly made for the test, even though there is only ONE known to be in existence today, and is worth at LEAT $1M....I look CLOSELY at EVERY yard sale I'm at to see if i can find the second one.... The Savage supposedly did fine in the trials too, some troopers liked it BETTER than the Colt...I think it broke down more often in service though...but I'm kind of wondering why it wasn't made commercially in any big numbers... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-19-2006, 08:22 AM	#4
Xracer TFF Admin Staff Mediator Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Minn-eeee-sota, ya, sure, you bet! Posts: 9,144	Re: 1907 Army trials. Well, the Savage didn't do all that well at the various trials. It had a number of parts failures in the early trials, and when the Gov't called for design changes for subsequent trials, Savage, being a small (and rather underfinanced) company had a difficult time meeting the deadlines for further trials tests. In fact, a number of the subsequent trials had to be delayed until Savage could incorporate the necessary changes in their design. Colt, on the other hand, was a large company, with a healthy bank account, and a large R&D tool room and J.M. Browning was staying at Colt during the various trials, and was able to make engineering changes quickly. Savage made 200 (plus maybe a few more) .45s for the field trials in 1907. These were issued to various U.S. Calvary troops for testing. After the trials were over, these pistols were eventually returned to Savage who refurbished them and they were sold thru F. Bannerman Arms in New York. So......there are still some Savage .45s out there, and they come up for sale every now and then, but for really BIG BUCK$. As for the 2 (maybe) Luger .45s, nobody really knows what happened to them.....and as for finding one at a yard sale, Polish.....Good Luck! FYI.....A good source of info on the .45 trials is found in the book, "Handguns Of The World" by Edward C. Ezell.

09-19-2006, 03:22 PM	#5
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: 1907 Army trials. My heart pounded a year ago when a friend of mine told me that he had a Luger 45. Feeling all that money coming to me I rushed faster than Superman would, only to discover... What else but a 9mm Luger, with 45 stamped on it? Of course that should had been DOM. My friend was lucky the dammned thing wasn't load or I could... It was in bad condition and had been refinished in nickel. (Altough it was mostly a rusty finish what it had) __________________ SI VIS PACEM, PARABELLUM.

09-19-2006, 09:05 PM	#6
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: 1907 Army trials. Thanks, X! But then again some Gyrenes preferred the JOHNSON to the Garand too... And I BETCHA you just might find at least ONE Marine who just might say "I kinda liked the Reising too...." __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-20-2006, 05:21 PM	#8
Ursus Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: El Salvador, Central America. Posts: 1,030	Re: 1907 Army trials. In 1994, I read the story about one of the two only .45 Lugers ever produced. This story was in Guns and Ammo June, July or August issue. (I have this magazine stashed somewhere around), The owner of the pistol at that time was one Michael Zomber, a SAN FRANCISCO gun collector. Estimated value of the .45 Luger at that time was 1 million US$, so I hope Mr. Zomber had moved away from SF, to protect his investment. No one knows the whereabout of the other .45 Luger. It's supposed that the lost one was the actually used in the 1907 Army Trial. Mr. Zomber's was the backup gun. __________________ SI VIS PACEM, PARABELLUM.

09-20-2006, 08:57 PM	#9
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,879	Re: 1907 Army trials. Yeah, Ursus, I read the same article, which is why I posted about the SECOND....it's out there SOMEWHERE, unless the darn Germans tookl it BACK and converted it to 9mm or something stupid... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

09-20-2006, 09:10 PM	#10
southernshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Deep South Mississippi Posts: 5,943	Re: 1907 Army trials. Unfortunetly that old of a gun could have been lost in a fire or theft. What a shame it is in San Fran __________________ Only you can see this

09-21-2006, 12:37 AM	#11
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: 1907 Army trials. Hey Polish, maybe they should look at a Luger in .45 ACP as a replacement for that POS Beretta! Since it is a German design it would work perfectly (that is axiomatic), and in a .45 ACP chambering it might actually hit hard enough to do mor than "make a little man sick and a big man mad." __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)