Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

Red Neck64 · 10-05-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

ROTF

Wonder how many here have done that...Or even heard of it for that matter.

Turn birdshot into a slug with yer EDC...Dont think I'd use it in my good shotties!

Crpdeth

OK,Can you Texas boys tell me what is EDC?

Crpdeth · 10-05-2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Neck64

OK,Can you Texas boys tell me what is EDC?

Nuh uh

Red Neck64 · 10-06-2006, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Nuh uh

Crpdeth,EDC you posted it.What does Nuh uh stand for ain't in my Yankee Dictionary??

Enzo_Guy · 10-06-2006, 03:27 PM

Best idea I've heard for a 5-shot 12-gauge is have the first shot be rubber buckshot, this idea is good because the laws tend to be less strict on the homeowner if he hit the intruder with non-lethal ammo. The laws are also less strict if you hi him with non-lethal first but instead he keeps coming, so then #8 or above is good. The other three should be slugs so in case there were a firefight (the intruder having his owwn gun) and he ran, a slug is a good way to make that running criminal know that you mean business.

billt · 10-06-2006, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo_Guy

Best idea I've heard for a 5-shot 12-gauge is have the first shot be rubber buckshot, this idea is good because the laws tend to be less strict on the homeowner if he hit the intruder with non-lethal ammo. The laws are also less strict if you hi him with non-lethal first but instead he keeps coming, so then #8 or above is good.

You make a very valid point, and suggest a very good idea. On the opposite end of things I would add that a homeowner should stay away from these "specialty rounds" like flechettes, and the like simply because they really aren't proven in self defense situations and because an over zealous prosecutor could have a field day in court if you used them instead of conventional ammunition. In using firearms in self defense one must remember there are 2 "battlefields". One in the home at the presence of an intruder, the other in the courtroom settling the aftermath. It's wise to be prepared to win in both venues. Bill T.

Crpdeth · 10-08-2006, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Neck64

Crpdeth,EDC you posted it.What does Nuh uh stand for ain't in my Yankee Dictionary??

Nuh uh = Naw!

Alright, Alright...EDC = Every Day Carry...In this instance meaning a knife.

Crpdeth

LIKTOSHOOT · 10-08-2006, 07:59 PM

You shoot to shop a threat when it goes that far, to do otherwise is to cheapen your life and your families!!!!!!

Rubber bullets....SHAME ON YOU!!

LTS

delta13soultaker · 10-09-2006, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo_Guy

Best idea I've heard for a 5-shot 12-gauge is have the first shot be rubber buckshot, this idea is good because the laws tend to be less strict on the homeowner if he hit the intruder with non-lethal ammo. The laws are also less strict if you hi him with non-lethal first but instead he keeps coming, so then #8 or above is good. The other three should be slugs so in case there were a firefight (the intruder having his owwn gun) and he ran, a slug is a good way to make that running criminal know that you mean business.

First off, "rubber buckshot" and "non-lethal munitions" ARE potentially lethal in close quarters. Any lawyer can easily argue, correctly too, that you were using deadly force. If your "non-lethal" shotshell turns out to be lethal what are you going to say? OOPS I didn't think it would do that!!?? One jury will decide how long you will serve for second degree murder, another will decide how much you owe his family dollar-wise. Any explanation you offer the jury will make you look worse. Also if you don't kill them, you can count on at a minimum some pretty nasty trauma and very likely maiming for life...especially if fired in tight quarters. When the prosecution is running the slideshow of giant welps, bruises and disfigured facial features to the civil suit jury you can go ahead and accept paying that s.o.b. the rest of your life. It will get turned around on you 10 different ways so just some advice from a guy who has used the non-lethal munitions in a few places...leave it for riot control where it belongs and use OC pepper spray if you insist on using non-lethal force first.

Second, if the threat is running away when you shoot him...the jury has every right to decide he was no longer a threat and your deadly force at that point was no longer justified. It may not matter what happened up until they ran. Once they flee then you are no longer in danger of loss of your life. The wording of the law in your local area and state may make what you described second degree murder and by law the jury could have little or no choice in naming you guilty.

rick's red dawg · 10-12-2006, 06:05 PM

i have seen a man shot with a 12 gauge at about 8 feet with a load of #6s and it was not in the chest but the right front pocket of his levis no it did not body slam him but he did hit the ground with a broken leg and a femorial [spelling] artery that was blown to pieces and if it wouldnt have been for the belt we tied around his leg he would have been dead our home defense guns are 12 gauge with what ever game load i bought usually 71/2s and a 22 magnum with hollow points and one mean black mouth cur dog

flopshot · 10-12-2006, 08:19 PM

home defense, in my five round tube.
#6 heavy, #4 heavy, two # 1 buckshot, and one slug.
in the short barell side by side that's kept handy, #4 heavy game 2 3/4"

Red Neck64 · 10-13-2006, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Nuh uh = Naw!

Alright, Alright...EDC = Every Day Carry...In this instance meaning a knife.

Crpdeth

Yepper,EDC Now I know.I was thinking it was something like poring hot wax into bird shot,and creating a slug I did that works good,but "J-B Weld" is much better I've shot Deer with it in desperate times past.PS, Nuh uh=Naw I went to look up Naw for meaning but cant find it?

Crpdeth · 10-13-2006, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Neck64

PS, Nuh uh=Naw I went to look up Naw for meaning but cant find it?

You have GOT to be yanking my chain....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Neck64

but "J-B Weld" is much better I've shot Deer with it in desperate times past.

Learn something new every day...Very interesting.

Crpdeth

Red Neck64 · 10-14-2006, 09:04 AM

Crpdeth,Naw not me!

LIKTOSHOOT · 10-14-2006, 09:44 AM

Don`t bother with JB Weld..........just pick up those wet duck shells in the bottom of the boat, thats a for sure steel slug. Watched someone shoot these all day and never hit a duck......for the life of me I could not figure out what I was seeing when he fired that shotgun, looked like a GIANT BB sailing towards a duck.................LMAO

Good story, maybe I`ll tell it............
......that and the, "I never fired a shot, but filled my daily limit"

Both stories will have you in tears............

LTS

Red Neck64 · 10-14-2006, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIKTOSHOOT

Don`t bother with JB Weld..........just pick up those wet duck shells in the bottom of the boat, thats a for sure steel slug. Watched someone shoot these all day and never hit a duck......for the life of me I could not figure out what I was seeing when he fired that shotgun, looked like a GIANT BB sailing towards a duck.................LMAO

Good story, maybe I`ll tell it............
......that and the, "I never fired a shot, but filled my daily limit"

Both stories will have you in tears............

LTS

That's a shot that went over my head I don't see the correlation.Must just be me?

Enzo_Guy · 10-15-2006, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flopshot

home defense, in my five round tube.
#6 heavy, #4 heavy, two # 1 buckshot, and one slug.
in the short barell side by side that's kept handy, #4 heavy game 2 3/4"

Have you considered the Remington #4x6 turkey load? I've learned recently that this is the round used the special forces urban assault units, most notably Delta Force.

Red Neck64 · 10-15-2006, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo_Guy

Have you considered the Remington #4x6 turkey load? I've learned recently that this is the round used the special forces urban assault units, most notably Delta Force.

It don't take a much lead or power to kill a man.

Enzo_Guy · 10-15-2006, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Neck64

It don't take a much lead or power to kill a man.

True, but the 4x6 is a mixture of #4 and #6 shot rolled into a single shell, capable of large amounts of damage I hear. It has the power of #4 with a larger spread of #6, sounds nice enough to me!

Red Neck64 · 10-16-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enzo_Guy

True, but the 4x6 is a mixture of #4 and #6 shot rolled into a single shell, capable of large amounts of damage I hear. It has the power of #4 with a larger spread of #6, sounds nice enough to me!

Mixed shot size I like it and will try it out,just might be a good running rabbit load also.

delta13soultaker · 10-17-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIKTOSHOOT

Don`t bother with JB Weld..........just pick up those wet duck shells in the bottom of the boat, thats a for sure steel slug. Watched someone shoot these all day and never hit a duck......for the life of me I could not figure out what I was seeing when he fired that shotgun, looked like a GIANT BB sailing towards a duck.................LMAO

Good story, maybe I`ll tell it............
......that and the, "I never fired a shot, but filled my daily limit"

Both stories will have you in tears............

LTS

Well I needed an excuse for missing ducks. "Yep these shells been in the bottom of the boat almost all season."

rick's red dawg · 10-18-2006, 03:52 AM

lots of folks use the 4x6 loads on turkey but i am pretty sure a man wouldnt know the difference between them and just plain ole 4s or 6s

Red Neck64 · 10-18-2006, 06:24 PM

[QUOTE=rick's red dawg;213340]lots of folks use the 4x6 loads on turkey but i am pretty sure a man wouldnt know the difference between them and just plain ole 4s or 6s[/QUOTE}

I'm more interested in the pattern of the load,looking for a dense center of 4s and a spread of 6s,I will see.

Enzo_Guy · 10-21-2006, 10:06 AM

Something I read not long ago was about penetration. We talk about these larger loads, but in reality some of them would go clean through the walls. At the typical home-engagment distance (less than 15 feet) birdshot is the best to use. There isn't quite enough room for it to spread so it makes quite a big hole in whoever, but it has the least wall penetration of any shotgun rounds (save for rock salt and rubber).

LIKTOSHOOT · 10-21-2006, 12:24 PM

Duplex shotgun loads are hardly anything new, and while some of the most remembered were used in the pacific theater...buckshot with smaller filler shot in the voids, and I guess it worked on paper. You don`t know what you`ve been shot with until you look, so down you go. I imagine as far back a s black powder duplex loads have been in use in private and some are even loaded today and mass produced. Of all designs of firearms, the shotgun remains the king of delivery systems.

LTS

45Smashemflat · 10-22-2006, 12:17 PM

Saw a good article on the "old wet steel" load situation where the author DID hit the ducks and was puzzled by the 1.5" hole straight through them....

JB Weld? Seems to me that would work, but 1 oz slugs are pretty cheap too...

Back in the ol' Turkey Shoot days, it was common to lick the targets to check for molassass.....

10-06-2006, 03:27 PM	#54
Enzo_Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Harwood, MD Posts: 160	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Best idea I've heard for a 5-shot 12-gauge is have the first shot be rubber buckshot, this idea is good because the laws tend to be less strict on the homeowner if he hit the intruder with non-lethal ammo. The laws are also less strict if you hi him with non-lethal first but instead he keeps coming, so then #8 or above is good. The other three should be slugs so in case there were a firefight (the intruder having his owwn gun) and he ran, a slug is a good way to make that running criminal know that you mean business.

10-08-2006, 07:59 PM	#57
LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,367	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again You shoot to shop a threat when it goes that far, to do otherwise is to cheapen your life and your families!!!!!! Rubber bullets....SHAME ON YOU!! LTS

10-12-2006, 06:05 PM	#59
rick's red dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 31	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again i have seen a man shot with a 12 gauge at about 8 feet with a load of #6s and it was not in the chest but the right front pocket of his levis no it did not body slam him but he did hit the ground with a broken leg and a femorial [spelling] artery that was blown to pieces and if it wouldnt have been for the belt we tied around his leg he would have been dead our home defense guns are 12 gauge with what ever game load i bought usually 71/2s and a 22 magnum with hollow points and one mean black mouth cur dog

10-12-2006, 08:19 PM	#60
flopshot V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: North Carolina Posts: 294	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again home defense, in my five round tube. #6 heavy, #4 heavy, two # 1 buckshot, and one slug. in the short barell side by side that's kept handy, #4 heavy game 2 3/4" __________________ take a kid shooting... they are the next vote

10-14-2006, 09:04 AM	#63
Red Neck64 Former Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North N.Y.STATE Posts: 330	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Crpdeth,Naw not me!

10-14-2006, 09:44 AM	#64
LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,367	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Don`t bother with JB Weld..........just pick up those wet duck shells in the bottom of the boat, thats a for sure steel slug. Watched someone shoot these all day and never hit a duck......for the life of me I could not figure out what I was seeing when he fired that shotgun, looked like a GIANT BB sailing towards a duck.................LMAO Good story, maybe I`ll tell it............ ......that and the, "I never fired a shot, but filled my daily limit" Both stories will have you in tears............ LTS

10-18-2006, 03:52 AM	#71
rick's red dawg Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 31	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again lots of folks use the 4x6 loads on turkey but i am pretty sure a man wouldnt know the difference between them and just plain ole 4s or 6s

10-18-2006, 06:24 PM	#72
Red Neck64 Former Guest Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: North N.Y.STATE Posts: 330	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again [QUOTE=rick's red dawg;213340]lots of folks use the 4x6 loads on turkey but i am pretty sure a man wouldnt know the difference between them and just plain ole 4s or 6s[/QUOTE} I'm more interested in the pattern of the load,looking for a dense center of 4s and a spread of 6s,I will see.

10-21-2006, 10:06 AM	#73
Enzo_Guy V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Harwood, MD Posts: 160	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Something I read not long ago was about penetration. We talk about these larger loads, but in reality some of them would go clean through the walls. At the typical home-engagment distance (less than 15 feet) birdshot is the best to use. There isn't quite enough room for it to spread so it makes quite a big hole in whoever, but it has the least wall penetration of any shotgun rounds (save for rock salt and rubber).

10-21-2006, 12:24 PM	#74
LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,367	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Duplex shotgun loads are hardly anything new, and while some of the most remembered were used in the pacific theater...buckshot with smaller filler shot in the voids, and I guess it worked on paper. You don`t know what you`ve been shot with until you look, so down you go. I imagine as far back a s black powder duplex loads have been in use in private and some are even loaded today and mass produced. Of all designs of firearms, the shotgun remains the king of delivery systems. LTS

10-22-2006, 12:17 PM	#75
45Smashemflat Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 1,494	Re: Let's talk about home defense 12-ga loads again Saw a good article on the "old wet steel" load situation where the author DID hit the ducks and was puzzled by the 1.5" hole straight through them.... JB Weld? Seems to me that would work, but 1 oz slugs are pretty cheap too... Back in the ol' Turkey Shoot days, it was common to lick the targets to check for molassass.....