Bound book in & outs - The Firearms Forum

22WRF · 11-30-2006, 09:49 PM

Heres food for thought.
I can't find the answer to this anywhere.
You buy a C&R and log it.
Later on you give it a sporter job just using the action.
Do you log it out to "Personal Collection" or just leave it logged in as C&R ??????
I know if you sell it it's no longer C&R

mrmeval · 12-08-2006, 02:27 AM

If it's older than 50 years it is a relic and it doesn't matter what you do it.

If it's a curio that's under 50 years old it has a special dispensation to be a curio so you cannot modify it. I'm sure there are exceptions to this for improper grips or missing minor parts.

Cork · 12-08-2006, 07:11 AM

I agree with mrmeval. If I am confident the purchase is going to used a sporter platform I buy it without using my C&R but that is my decision. Sporter changes involve everything from being able to restore to new calibers etc. It seems like everything else the Feds are vague, which can go against the little guy. I had have good intentioned collectors tell me to log C&R's purchased via the yellow sheet, inheirted or face to face sales in my Bound Book. I do not do that.

polishshooter · 12-08-2006, 09:53 AM

Yeah, Cork, that last is the most vague...like what about CRs you owned BEFORE you got the CRFFL, or the one I bought via yellow sheet from a store AFTER my CRFFL expired but before I got my new one, that went through NICS and everything?

I thought I read somewhere a specific line in the regs that said something like you "must log any firearms purchased through the use of your license," but I'll be darned if I can find it now

Now as for the modifying, I have SEVERAL HIGHLY modified CRs that are nothing like the ones I bought and first logged, but they are still logged like they were originally....

How could they sell "Parts guns," or in some cases just "rebuildable" barrelled ACTIONS as CR if it was illegal?

Now on the OTHER hand, many years ago I had an East German Makarov that I was using as a "carry gun" stolen, and when I dutifully reported it to the ATF as required, I DID get the "20 Questions" on the call back (after of course I managed to convince them it was a PISTOL and not an "MAK assault rifle'" which is what they THOUGHT it was...

She had NO clue, and that's probably why I got the call....) about why I was "using it" that way, and if I properly logged it in and out EACH day I took it out of my house for "that purpose," and I hammered back at her "Are you saying if I take any of mine to the RANGE to shoot I have to log them back in and out EVERY TIME????" and she kind of stammered, well, no....and then asked if I at least had it notated in my log that it was my "carry gun?"

I of COURSE said "Yes."

1952Sniper · 12-08-2006, 03:07 PM

Quote:

I thought I read somewhere a specific line in the regs that said something like you "must log any firearms purchased through the use of your license," but I'll be darned if I can find it now

This is a source of confusion that keeps rearing its head among collectors. And quite frankly, I think it's only a matter of time before the BATF scraps the entire C&R program because people cannot get this through their heads.

ALL C&R acquisitions must be logged. While your license is active, you must log EVERY C&R firearm that comes into or out of your collection, regardless of whether you "used" your license to get it or not. What matters is that you are licensed, not how you use your license. While licensed, all C&R transactions must be logged. This has been verified by letters from the BATF, as well as to me personally last time I met with my BATF field agent who covers C&R licensees in my area.

As to the original question, I have never seen the BATF sufficiently answer the question of how you handle the log requirements when you modify a C&R out of eligible configuration. Of course, if it's over 50 years old, it's C&R regardless.

11-30-2006, 09:49 PM	#1
22WRF Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pea Ridge, FL Contributor Posts: 4,251	Bound book in & outs Heres food for thought. I can't find the answer to this anywhere. You buy a C&R and log it. Later on you give it a sporter job just using the action. Do you log it out to "Personal Collection" or just leave it logged in as C&R ?????? I know if you sell it it's no longer C&R __________________ NRA GOA CCRKBA Happiness is a warm barrel -->

12-08-2006, 02:27 AM	#2
mrmeval Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 25	Re: Bound book in & outs If it's older than 50 years it is a relic and it doesn't matter what you do it. If it's a curio that's under 50 years old it has a special dispensation to be a curio so you cannot modify it. I'm sure there are exceptions to this for improper grips or missing minor parts.

12-08-2006, 07:11 AM	#3
Cork Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Mississippi Posts: 13	Re: Bound book in & outs I agree with mrmeval. If I am confident the purchase is going to used a sporter platform I buy it without using my C&R but that is my decision. Sporter changes involve everything from being able to restore to new calibers etc. It seems like everything else the Feds are vague, which can go against the little guy. I had have good intentioned collectors tell me to log C&R's purchased via the yellow sheet, inheirted or face to face sales in my Bound Book. I do not do that. __________________ ....the Soviets could not make socialism work, neither could the Chinese who have a free market economy...why does Barack Obama think it will work in the USA?

12-08-2006, 09:53 AM	#4
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,860	Re: Bound book in & outs Yeah, Cork, that last is the most vague...like what about CRs you owned BEFORE you got the CRFFL, or the one I bought via yellow sheet from a store AFTER my CRFFL expired but before I got my new one, that went through NICS and everything? I thought I read somewhere a specific line in the regs that said something like you "must log any firearms purchased through the use of your license," but I'll be darned if I can find it now Now as for the modifying, I have SEVERAL HIGHLY modified CRs that are nothing like the ones I bought and first logged, but they are still logged like they were originally.... How could they sell "Parts guns," or in some cases just "rebuildable" barrelled ACTIONS as CR if it was illegal? Now on the OTHER hand, many years ago I had an East German Makarov that I was using as a "carry gun" stolen, and when I dutifully reported it to the ATF as required, I DID get the "20 Questions" on the call back (after of course I managed to convince them it was a PISTOL and not an "MAK assault rifle'" which is what they THOUGHT it was... She had NO clue, and that's probably why I got the call....) about why I was "using it" that way, and if I properly logged it in and out EACH day I took it out of my house for "that purpose," and I hammered back at her "Are you saying if I take any of mine to the RANGE to shoot I have to log them back in and out EVERY TIME????" and she kind of stammered, well, no....and then asked if I at least had it notated in my log that it was my "carry gun?" I of COURSE said "Yes." __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living. Last edited by polishshooter; 12-08-2006 at 09:57 AM..