XREP...

[SnakeByte]

One of the things that has always kept me from purchasing a firearm for self defense is the permanence of damage from shooting someone. From shooting the wrong person to killing someone in my home and having to deal with the repercussions were possibilities I would rather avoid if possible.

The other day, I stumbled on the XREP from taser.com.. Has anyone else seen this? it's a 12 gauge shotgun shell that you shoot at the perp and which contains a wireless taser. They're not out yet, but man, put a few of these in a shotgun and you've got a nice way to take out someone without permanent damage... (I suppose you could put a few rounds of regular shot in after the XREP in case it doesn't work).

http://www.taser.com/products/law/Pages/XREP.aspx

[gunlearner]

my opinion really is that the answer you already know. i purchased my pistol because i felt the need to protect my family knowing that a firearm is the last resource you should use to defend your life.
i guess if someone is in my house their intension are not good, the question is how do you feel about it and if you feel that your life is in danger.
am from ecuador and we don't have those taser shells but sure sounds good
about taking the life of someone else god know i don't want to make that call but if it comes to the point of my family or them sure enough its going to be them. no way around that

[Smoky14]

SB: Welcome aboard. I think your view of self def is just a little off base, one man's opinion. If a shot gun is required to defend yourself you are already so deep into the swamp you need to "SHOOT TO STOP" not that your taser might not but at that point in time I don't want to hope that a "shocking experience" will stop an attack. Taking of a human life is not an easy decision, but it is made easier when you are defending your own life or that of an innocent.
As long as you have doubt about your ability to shoot, no KILL, I'd remain unarmed, as the BG may use your gun against you and yours.
This is a serious business, get prepaired.

Smoky

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by Smoky14

As long as you have doubt about your ability to shoot, no KILL, I'd remain unarmed, as the BG may use your gun against you and yours.
This is a serious business, get prepaired.

Smoky

But that's exactly my point with this taser shot. There is no issue to worry about, especially if it's my wife doing the shooting and not me. As I said before, load up the shotgun with some real shells in case the taser ones fail to do the job. Shotguns typically hold what, 8 shells? Blam, shock, nothing, blam, shock, nothing, blam with a real shell, dead.

It's really one of risk here... The chance of A, someone coming into the house that one would need to kill versus all the other possibilities where one wouldn't want any harm to come. Seriously... would you want to kill someone in your home and deal with the mess plus having to go through the legal system to prove that you were justified? What if your kid was watching. What if the BG has gang members or family who want to retaliate, etc...

I figure shock, hog-tie and gag and then wait for the cops is a much cleaner solution.

[Bill DeShivs]

Wake up.
It doesn't work that way.
Bill

[Smoky14]

Taking a human life is serious business, that being said you are dealing with an assumption that; 1 the first shot will do the job,2 there is only one BG 3 the trama of a BG dead will affect your child more than your death. I can fix my kid if I'm still around to do it. BG's on PCP etc have been known to ignore multiple shots from hand guns and yes shot gun with 00buck.
Shoot until the threat or threats are vanquished. Less than lethal rounds are for LE use where they have training and usually superior force.
Good luck
Smoky
PS: No I wouldn't want to go through the court system after a shooting BUT that is far preferable to going to a funeral.

[travihanson]

I have to agree with smokey on this one...Someone breaks into YOUR house armed.....or unarmed for that matter their intentions are not honorable. You shoot them, don't detain them. Think of the guy who crawls in the vents, slips, cuts himself, needs 100 stitches and sues the homeowner and wins. Uhhhhh no. Bang, dead, my word against his....Get the point? Oh, and "make sure" he is armed.

Good day

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by SnakeByte

One of the things that has always kept me from purchasing a firearm for self defense is
the permanence of damage from shooting someone.

I'll go out on a limb here and guess...you ain't a combat vet.....


My friend....that's kinda the idea behind pullin the trigger.....


Another guess......

A mop bucket, a mop and a jug of bleach....

would be cheaper than buying a casket for a family member.



Sorry to be so hard on you......it's just that our thought patterns are 180 degrees apart..


In your defense...they just passed the Castle Doctrine here in Missouri.

therefore I'm not as susceptible to the things you are concerned about

[durk]

Originally Posted by SnakeByte

But that's exactly my point with this taser shot. There is no issue to worry about, especially if it's my wife doing the shooting and not me. As I said before, load up the shotgun with some real shells in case the taser ones fail to do the job. Shotguns typically hold what, 8 shells? Blam, shock, nothing, blam, shock, nothing, blam with a real shell, dead.

No issue?? How about the shocking issue the perp tells his/her attorney when they say he was at your house to barrow a cup of sugar or to let you know of a prowler in your backyard? Your side of the story is all that needs be told!

[travihanson]

No offense bro....but are you a democrat? I think only that type of person would say the things you said in a /firearms forum..../

[delta13soultaker]

I don't care what the advertisement for those taser shells implies....

The facts are (1) Any projectile from a shotgun in close quarters could be deadly.
(2) If you say you had no intention of killing, they will use your own words to prove you had no justification to use deadly force.
(3) A prosecuter can bring in expert witnesses to say you used deadly force...remember this when you said on the stand you weren't trying to kill...lol
(4) Only a fool would not try to sue you if you shot him with those. (I'm sure the medical photos will be pretty graphic to the jury!!!)
(5) Self-defense is fighting...and there are NO clean/pretty/safe alternatives to killing bad men to preserve peace.

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

Wake up.
It doesn't work that way.
Bill

That's constructive. Tell me then, how does it work?

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by Smoky14

Taking a human life is serious business, that being said you are dealing with an assumption that; 1 the first shot will do the job,2 there is only one BG 3 the trama of a BG dead will affect your child more than your death. I can fix my kid if I'm still around to do it. BG's on PCP etc have been known to ignore multiple shots from hand guns and yes shot gun with 00buck.
Shoot until the threat or threats are vanquished. Less than lethal rounds are for LE use where they have training and usually superior force.
Good luck
Smoky
PS: No I wouldn't want to go through the court system after a shooting BUT that is far preferable to going to a funeral.

Well, my assumption is that the first 3 shots will do the job, and then the fourth and on would be real shot and should also do the job.

Good point about me vs bg's death making an impact on my son's mental health though.

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by travihanson

I have to agree with smokey on this one...Someone breaks into YOUR house armed.....or unarmed for that matter their intentions are not honorable. You shoot them, don't detain them. Think of the guy who crawls in the vents, slips, cuts himself, needs 100 stitches and sues the homeowner and wins. Uhhhhh no. Bang, dead, my word against his....Get the point? Oh, and "make sure" he is armed.

Good day

Yes, their intentions are not honorable. There's a difference between not honorable and intent to cause harm though. What are the statistics of break-ins to steal vs break-ins to cause harm? I would think most are to steal... Something our justice system concluded doesn't warrant a death sentence, nor would a jury find very favorable when looking at the case (At least in California where I live)

Here are the harm vs property crime #'s for my city:
http://www.cityrating.com/citycrime....Bruno&state=CA

You can see that most breakings are not the violent type, at least here where I live. I'd be curious to see what the numbers are in your cities too.

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by durk

No issue?? How about the shocking issue the perp tells his/her attorney when they say he was at your house to barrow a cup of sugar or to let you know of a prowler in your backyard? Your side of the story is all that needs be told!

Point taken. Forensics can tell a bit on the other side of the story, even if the BG is shot dead too though.

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by travihanson

No offense bro....but are you a democrat? I think only that type of person would say the things you said in a /firearms forum..../

Sadly, it's a republican that normally says statements like that. Btw, I'm a republican, although I try to keep an open mind (Thus the post in this forum).

I was simply asking if this was a good idea and wanted to bounce some ideas off of those with more knowledge than I when it comes to firearms. You know.. what a forum is for?

Lets try to keep the personal attacks out of this and focus on the topic, okay?

[SnakeByte]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

I don't care what the advertisement for those taser shells implies....

The facts are (1) Any projectile from a shotgun in close quarters could be deadly.
(2) If you say you had no intention of killing, they will use your own words to prove you had no justification to use deadly force.
(3) A prosecuter can bring in expert witnesses to say you used deadly force...remember this when you said on the stand you weren't trying to kill...lol
(4) Only a fool would not try to sue you if you shot him with those. (I'm sure the medical photos will be pretty graphic to the jury!!!)
(5) Self-defense is fighting...and there are NO clean/pretty/safe alternatives to killing bad men to preserve peace.

Okay, so I guess there's a difference here that I'm becoming aware of. Self-defense vs what to do when someone has broken into your house yet takes off running when you come around the corner.

With the taser shot, you'd could still shoot the perp, while with a regular load, you'd have to let them go.


Guys, I'm not sold on the taser idea here... I was just looking for educated opinions on the pros and cons.

From what I've read so far, the only thing anyone has said against the taser shot idea itself is that there's a chance it might not work and leave one vulnerable. Loading up a weapon with more than one shot should take care of that risk, especially if you fill up the rest of the firearm with regular shot.

If cops use tasers, then certainly there are circumstances where the public should too, right?

I should probably be asking a legal forum or a police officers forum instead since I'm sure the people who have responded so far are neither, or have never actually shot and killed someone in their home.

[Tom Militano]

Let me explain how it is in Alabama. If somebody breaks into my house I will shoot them, period. Yes, I'm a combat vet.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by SnakeByte

Okay, so I guess there's a difference here that I'm becoming aware of. Self-defense vs what to do when someone has broken into your house yet takes off running when you come around the corner.

With the taser shot, you'd could still shoot the perp, while with a regular load, you'd have to let them go.


Guys, I'm not sold on the taser idea here... I was just looking for educated opinions on the pros and cons.

From what I've read so far, the only thing anyone has said against the taser shot idea itself is that there's a chance it might not work and leave one vulnerable. Loading up a weapon with more than one shot should take care of that risk, especially if you fill up the rest of the firearm with regular shot.

If cops use tasers, then certainly there are circumstances where the public should too, right?

I should probably be asking a legal forum or a police officers forum instead since I'm sure the people who have responded so far are neither, or have never actually shot and killed someone in their home.

Man, I mean this most respectfully....but listen to what you are saying.

From the start you are going down the wrong track. Startling an intruder as you "come around the corner"? Stay put and wait on the cops, guy.

Shooting a shotgun at a fleeing burglar is asking to get a civil suit/criminal charge. Ask a prosecutor about shooting anyone in the back! Especially in California. Taser ammo plus conventional loads...it would not be far fetched to paint you to a jury as a wacko-wannabe if it helps get a conviction.

Traumatizing your kid? I'm a dad too. How are you going to quietly blast taser shells into a burglar anyway? How are you going to keep the horde of cops and EMTs from inrerrupting bedtime routine? Kids will be scared no matter what.

Anyway, if you want to taser a burglar...get a dang taser. What you do in your home is your business. We did give our opinions on pros/cons.

[travihanson]

Originally Posted by SnakeByte

Well, my assumption is that the first 3 shots will do the job, and then the fourth and on would be real shot and should also do the job.

Good point about me vs bg's death making an impact on my son's mental health though.

I'm sorry about the "personal attack", I looked at it after and have the mind set "well it's said, oh well" hence why I did not delete it....

(next one that quote that touched home"- You shoot until the target is down...Especially in your house, with unhonorable intentions

And third, (some quote in there somewhere...there were a few) if someone breaks into your house, you have no idea why other then they are a punk, would you want them breaking into some other house after he gets off your court case? Come on....it happens, Drop em...wont happen again....

Again...sorry for the insult that i didn't look deeper into...

[travihanson]

And yes...I am core republican ;-)

[JohnK3]

SnakeByte, delta13soultaker is dead on the money, so to speak.

A prosecutor is going to go to town with any shooting in the back. He's also going to go to town with any "less-than-lethal" rounds mixed with lethal rounds.

If you come upon a bad guy and he runs, then sit tight and call the cops. First person to call usually wins, it seems. If you let the bad guy call, he's going to tell his load of manure and you'll be seen as a whacko with a gun, especially in California.

A recent article in Guns magazine (at least, I think that's where I read it) calls it "posting up." First thing you do when someone comes in your house is gather the family together in a defensible room and "post up." To "post up" is to get behind even partial cover, covering any entrances to the room and pick up your cell phone and dial 911. DON'T go hunting the bad guys unless you're trained to do so. Some of the members here, such as delta13, ARE trained to do so. They know best how to clear their own house. If you are not trained to clear a house, the best advice is to "post up" call the cops and inform the bad guy in a clear, loud voice that you have done so and are armed. *IF* the bad guy then chooses to enter a room that he has been informed contains an armed homeowner, then he has made a CHOICE to lose his life. Don't shoot to harm. Don't shoot to kill. Shoot to live. That means "stop the threat." Period. Keep firing until the threat is GONE. At most, your child has a small bit of a scare from someone breaking in and has heard some loud noises. He'll also remember that Daddy gave the BG a chance and Daddy defended his family, namely HIM.

[durk]

Possibilities? Scared son or dead family? Are you really going to rely on neighborhood crime stats to make a choice? Are killers not allowed in you neighborhood? So a bg breaks into your house and only steals things. Are you ok with that? As I am shooting the SOB, I will be telling him to get a job and buy his own stuff. A job that he will now not be able to perform because of his room-temperature status! I guess he could be a smelly doorstop or a biodegradable anchor. BTW I live 5 houses down from a cop in a pretty nice neighborhood and have all guns loaded with real bullets.