with or without one on the chamber???? - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

travihanson · 07-24-2007, 08:35 AM

I like to carry an astra cub .22 short

No safety that I use. I put it in my pocket...I have carried 1911's and when I have it has always been one in the chamber hammer down. I have no trust for safety's...

Ursus · 07-25-2007, 06:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obxned

If the need arises, do you really think you can afford the time required to chamber a round?

Try it while driving a manual transmission car! One in the pipe is the way to go.

polishshooter · 07-25-2007, 10:13 AM

Now, I hope everybody will forgive me for a contrary view, GOD knows I rarely ever do THAT....

I know all about cocked and locked in a 1911, I competed with it for years, and it is as safe as any other internal striker weapon with a loaded chamber and the hammer back and safety on.

And with practice, which is what we all need ANYWAY, that safety is swept off in the draw without any consciuos thought, and even "C" classes can draw and engage multiple targets with 6 shots from a draw cocked and locked in less than three seconds...most times the first shot in less than a second...

BUT having said that, when I CARRIED the 1911, it was condition 3, chamber empty, hammer down.

Now maybe with a strap retainer, I would feel safer, but I HAVE had pistols fall out of holsters before...you CANNOT always dictate what position you will be in, in normal day to day activities...on a ladder, under a car, bending over in strange positions, even falling and taking a nasty tumble on ice....

Again, WITH PRACTICE, racking the slide is NOT that slow to bring into action, and especially with the 1911, ONE HANDED racking is pretty simple to master, as WELL as fast, so the "what happens if one hand is tied up" argument doeswn't hold up...it IS easy once you try it and practice.

As far as "what if the round hangs up on chambering," well, SORRY, you are carrying the wrong weapon if you don't KNOW it will feed empty cases!

Now with the Makarov, I will carry it with the chamber loaded, and the hammer down and the safety ON. Why NOT use it? I realize it's no different than a DA revolver with NO safety, BUT again, it costs no time, sweeping it off is second nature, so why NOT use it?

I have a REAL problem with people NOT using safeties when they are available for use....if you don't leave it ON normally, can I really count on you to ENGAGE it when you SHOULD? Probably not, so I'm not sure I want to be NEXT to you on a range, much LESS when the SHTF....I've hunted with lots of guys ONCE who leave the safety off their shotguns or rifles to "not waste any time" when they need to shoot.

I never hunted with ANY of them a second time...

That simply tells me they really DON'T understand firearms or firearms safety.

Like I KNOW my '97 shotgun is "unsafe" with a round in the chamber, even at "half-cock," JMB INTENDED it to be "racked" just before firing...and that IS the way I carry it when I hunt small game, and usually when I have it slung upside down over my back.....

BUT for deer, I have to have a slug up the spout...so it took TIME and PRACTICE to come up with the way I hold it and carry it that way, with the web of my hand pressing up against the hammer...again, it is NOW second nature in the field, but it took time AND practice....

It's really simple, KNOW YOUR WEAPON, through practice, and USE the safety if it HAS one....and ALWAYS keep your finger out of the trigger guard whether it HAS one or not until it's time to shoot.

As for chamber empty, know the advantages and disadvantages of each method, PRACTICE both, with YOUR pistol and make your OWN call what is best for you....

ampress01 · 07-30-2007, 04:12 AM

Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.

ampress01 · 07-30-2007, 04:20 AM

Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.

Tom Militano · 08-05-2007, 12:25 PM

I carry a Springfield XD .40 S&W subcompact with one in the chamber.

boni · 08-11-2007, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunlearner

hello again
i have worked for the past 5 years with USAF and some friends i had were as much gun freaks as i am so i tried to get as much knowlege from this gun gurus.
one of the topics that brings more conflict in meeting with friend from ecuador is the topic which is the title of this thread.

i carry like i said in another topic my pt99 with one on chamber half cocked and no safety (maybe because i thing is safe enough).

most people tell me am crazy to carry it like that

what do you people think about this???

(if i had a glock maybe i would not do it but i have not had one yet)

VR

gunlearner

when we were under threat before i would always carry my firearms cock n lock. always loaded. would you carry the same if you were actual threat to you and your family?

07-24-2007, 08:35 AM	#26
travihanson Senior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Milo, ME Posts: 582	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I like to carry an astra cub .22 short No safety that I use. I put it in my pocket...I have carried 1911's and when I have it has always been one in the chamber hammer down. I have no trust for safety's... __________________ The two loudest sounds in the world are a click when you expect a bang, and a bang when you expect a click.

07-25-2007, 10:13 AM	#28
polishshooter Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 7,859	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Now, I hope everybody will forgive me for a contrary view, GOD knows I rarely ever do THAT.... I know all about cocked and locked in a 1911, I competed with it for years, and it is as safe as any other internal striker weapon with a loaded chamber and the hammer back and safety on. And with practice, which is what we all need ANYWAY, that safety is swept off in the draw without any consciuos thought, and even "C" classes can draw and engage multiple targets with 6 shots from a draw cocked and locked in less than three seconds...most times the first shot in less than a second... BUT having said that, when I CARRIED the 1911, it was condition 3, chamber empty, hammer down. Now maybe with a strap retainer, I would feel safer, but I HAVE had pistols fall out of holsters before...you CANNOT always dictate what position you will be in, in normal day to day activities...on a ladder, under a car, bending over in strange positions, even falling and taking a nasty tumble on ice.... Again, WITH PRACTICE, racking the slide is NOT that slow to bring into action, and especially with the 1911, ONE HANDED racking is pretty simple to master, as WELL as fast, so the "what happens if one hand is tied up" argument doeswn't hold up...it IS easy once you try it and practice. As far as "what if the round hangs up on chambering," well, SORRY, you are carrying the wrong weapon if you don't KNOW it will feed empty cases! Now with the Makarov, I will carry it with the chamber loaded, and the hammer down and the safety ON. Why NOT use it? I realize it's no different than a DA revolver with NO safety, BUT again, it costs no time, sweeping it off is second nature, so why NOT use it? I have a REAL problem with people NOT using safeties when they are available for use....if you don't leave it ON normally, can I really count on you to ENGAGE it when you SHOULD? Probably not, so I'm not sure I want to be NEXT to you on a range, much LESS when the SHTF....I've hunted with lots of guys ONCE who leave the safety off their shotguns or rifles to "not waste any time" when they need to shoot. I never hunted with ANY of them a second time... That simply tells me they really DON'T understand firearms or firearms safety. Like I KNOW my '97 shotgun is "unsafe" with a round in the chamber, even at "half-cock," JMB INTENDED it to be "racked" just before firing...and that IS the way I carry it when I hunt small game, and usually when I have it slung upside down over my back..... BUT for deer, I have to have a slug up the spout...so it took TIME and PRACTICE to come up with the way I hold it and carry it that way, with the web of my hand pressing up against the hammer...again, it is NOW second nature in the field, but it took time AND practice.... It's really simple, KNOW YOUR WEAPON, through practice, and USE the safety if it HAS one....and ALWAYS keep your finger out of the trigger guard whether it HAS one or not until it's time to shoot. As for chamber empty, know the advantages and disadvantages of each method, PRACTICE both, with YOUR pistol and make your OWN call what is best for you.... __________________ The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living.

07-30-2007, 04:12 AM	#29
ampress01 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.

07-30-2007, 04:20 AM	#30
ampress01 Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 15	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? Having a round in the chamber, no safety, is like having a revolver. There is no time to chamber a round when being attacked. The 21 foot rule prooved that. For those who don't know what the 21 foot rule is, it has been pooven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you cannot draw and fire your weapon faster than an attacker running at you within 21 feet and stabbing you. That is unless your Doc Holiday, and maybe some of you are, but the average cop/citizen is not. Having said that , I would not keep my hammer back without a safety to hold it back. In an armed conflict at close range it's highly likely to go off unintended. Also if your in a shootout , you don't want some liberal prosecutor twisting the facts and saying that you were some cowboy gunslinger, who was reckless and blood thirsty, or maybe having an accident and having the same prosecutor charging you with negligent homicide, or at best a civil court taking your house and savings, because your finger slipped as you tripped on an icey floor. Murphy is like the devil, just waiting to help you trip up, because your out there trying to do the right thing, and no good deed goes unpunished. So hey, lets be carefull out there.

08-05-2007, 12:25 PM	#31
Tom Militano Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Jacksonville, AL Posts: 1,255	Re: with or without one on the chamber???? I carry a Springfield XD .40 S&W subcompact with one in the chamber.