problem with k98k

[curyusgrg]

I'm new to the forum and am hoping for some wisdom. I have a sporterized mauser 8mm and when I run the bolt out, it won't go back in. The magazine follower pops up in the way of the bolt. Is the bolt going back too far or is the follower coming up too far? Any help would be appreciated.

[mark_baron]

That's the way mine is. You have to push the follower down with your finger to close the bolt. I'll bet it works fine with cartriges in it. If not then there may be something wrong.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by curyusgrg

I'm new to the forum and am hoping for some wisdom. I have a sporterized mauser 8mm and when I run the bolt out, it won't go back in. The magazine follower pops up in the way of the bolt. Is the bolt going back too far or is the follower coming up too far? Any help would be appreciated.

Cury, the '98, along with most military bolt-action rifles, is built to do precisely that. The reason for it is to tell the soldier that he's out of ammo and needs to insert another stripper clip into the magazine. In the heat of battle failing to realize how many rounds a soldier has fired is a very common problem. To close the bolt without ammo in the magazine, you merely need to push the follower down with your thumb or finger far enough that the bolt will slide over the follower.

[CCubed]

Does the 98k's action do this??? My M48 doesn't, but my FR7 with the 93 Mauser action does. I'm just curious whether or not this is common in 98k rifles, or 98 actions, for that matter, 'cause I know my M48's 98 action doesn't do this.

[bunnyhunter12]

The solution to this problem is to take your rifle to your local gunsmith/gunshop. There you will find qualified personnel to sell your rifle on consignment and then you can buy an Enfield. This will solve any and ALL problems common to the Mausers.

I think you'll be pleased with the results.

[curyusgrg]

Thanks everyone. I wondered if that was the case. I discovered my father in law has a czech 8mm and the corner of the follower is ground into a slope to allow it to ride over. I wonder if that was done later to make it easier to use. I'll have to look into an enfield. . . . . unless I want to keep this beautiful rifle. Hmmmm.

[LDBennett]

The bolt locking back when the magazine is empty is part of the Mauser K98 design for the reason stated above. If yours does that, it is correct. Both mine do it and by inspection I can see that is correct and part of the design.

LDBennett

[polishshooter]

Yeah Curious, it's working as designed. All Mauser and Mauser derivatives like the Springfield and Arisakas etc. do that too.

As for the M48 NOT doing that, I suspect that it SHOULD, and if it doesn't perhaps the follower isn't going up high enough, it is worn, or the follower was modified at some time.


Most Mannlicher designs, as well as Mosin Nagants, and Enfields don't have this "bolt hold open after the last shot" feature, and I wonder if it just might have something to do with the fact each of those fire rimmed cartridges, while the mausers, Springfields, etc. fire rimless or semi-rimmed cartridges....although I can't figure out WHY....

I DO know that I prefer the ones that DON'T hold them open, even if the only advantage I can see is it makes "dry fire" practice a LOT easier....

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Most Mannlicher designs, as well as Mosin Nagants, and Enfields don't have this "bolt hold open after the last shot" feature, and I wonder if it just might have something to do with the fact each of those fire rimmed cartridges, while the mausers, Springfields, etc. fire rimless or semi-rimmed cartridges....although I can't figure out WHY....

Polish, the reason is quite obvious: The Russians and the British were both a few electrons short of amperage. Besides, who needs to reload when you can give them "cold steel?"

[polishshooter]

Well, you are PARTLY true, and the fact the Russians were LUCKY to issue a Mosin with MORE than 5 rounds, at least early in the war...


But in the case of the Enfields, when you are loading 10 to start with, it isn't easy to "run dry," the cowardly Boche will be running long before you get to around 7 or 8 accurate shots rapid fire...then you can "top it off" with a 5 round stripper at your leisure and STILL have more rounds available than any junky inaccurate Mauser has when it's FULL....

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

But in the case of the Enfields, when you are loading 10 to start with, it isn't easy to "run dry," the cowardly Boche will be running long before you get to around 7 or 8 accurate shots rapid fire...then you can "top it off" with a 5 round stripper at your leisure and STILL have more rounds available than any junky inaccurate Mauser has when it's FULL....

Well Polish, I suppose those Limys did need ten rounds to have a chance of hitting anything. The Germans, however, generally taught their recruits to shoot accurately, and with the flawlessly designed and manufactured Mauser '98, accuracy was assured. After all, as I'm sure you will remember, it wasn't the Mauser that went through umpty ump "Marks" trying to get it right.

[bunnyhunter12]

That just shows that the Enfield was good enough to be tailored to specific jobs, as the trends of the time detailed, Pistol. Even the Germans knew that the 98 was a lost cause and apart from shortening and litening it so the troops wouldn't have to complain about carrying such a large piece of junk, they just gave up on trying to fix it and soldiered on into oblivion. Maybe they should have left it as a full-sized rifle instead or shortening to Karabiner length. Extra length would have meant extra reach for "pig-sticking" when your five rounds were all used up and the 10rds and rapid fire of the Enfield never gave you a chance to reload.

[polishshooter]

Now PS, I seem to recall there was an 1888 Mauser, a 7mm 1895 Mauser (that MAY have been the only decent one), the Model 96, the Gewehr 98 "Long Rifle", then a couple attempts and versions until the KAR 98, and even THEN it changed a lot at the M38 and M48 et al, until they FINALLY got it "perfected" as the Model 70 Winchester SPORTING rifle....



And of course the fact that not only did countries that CARRIED Enfields and Mosins in battle manage to WIN a few wars along the way, while nobody who carried a MAUSER can be accused of winning even ONE war, unless the OPPOSITION was also armed with them ....

....Mosins and Enfields were still issued and in military service long AFTER any "battle" Mausers were chopped into sporters or sold as scrap and/or surplus to collectors....

[LDBennett]

Why does a Mauser K98 hold the bolt open on the last shot?

Take a look at the design of the follower. It is so designed that the bolt will open, dragging on the top of the follower but the bolt will not close after the bolt passes completely over the follower. The follower pops up after the bolt passes the follower and by design the back edge of the follower blocks the bolt from going forward. Just push the follower down with a finger so the bolt will clear the follower's back edge and the bolt will be able to travel forward without stopping.

Most all the bolt action rifles (old and new designs) that I have seen and inspected use this same design for holding the bolt from closing after the last shot from the magazine. Simple!

LDBennett

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

....Mosins and Enfields were still issued and in military service long AFTER any "battle" Mausers were chopped into sporters or sold as scrap and/or surplus to collectors....

On the contrary, Polish, the Mauser soldiered on for many years after World War II all over Europe, but particularly in Eastern Europe. Indeed, the later pattern Mausers, like the 48, as well as rearsenaled 98ks, served throughout the 1950s and 1960s with many nations. It is also interesting to note that the Russians dumped the Mosins for the SKS as quickly as they could after the war and shipped a great many of them off to their "fraternal socialist allies," which explains why so many of them are still available today.

[polishshooter]

Au contraire back AT ya PS!

The Russians NEVER "dumped" the Mosin Nagant, any more than WE dumped the Springfield for the Garand, or the M14 for the M16!! And they still ISSUE it as a sniper rifle, and civil guards and internal security units still carry them....as well as all over former the eastern bloc....

The Mosin Nagant was an ISSUE weapon into the 1990s in Finland, Romania, and several other Eastern Bloc nations....The Romanian M44s that were sold in the US in the past 5 or 6 years or so were taken DIRECTLY from in service (granted, RESERVE, but still in service units!) I have several well used leather Romanian M44 ammo pouches that were stuffed with Romanian quartermaster papers for shipment, that were dated 2000! And one pouch still had a cigarette pack complete with one broken cigarette and matches from a contemporary cigarette company ("Carpat") in Bucharest!


And the famous AP picture of the "assault rifles" being removed by the armload from the embassy in Kosovo immediately prior to our Abrams and Bradleys showing up (in the MID 1990s) were M44s....

The ISSUE Russian Army, as well as all other former Eastern Bloc armies, true "sniper" rifle (not "designated marksman" rifle which is the Dragunov, intended for OTHER tactical purposes.....) still is a Mosin Nagant...I would not be surprised if the Polish forces in Iraq today may not have one or two "snayperskayas" along with them....

And the LAST time the USMC rifle team was humbled in international competition was by the Soviet rifle team, in the 80s, and they were shooting, (you guessed it! ) Mosin Nagants....




And don't EVEN get into "contemporary service" of the Enfields, or Bunny will show up foaming at the mouth TOO!

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Polishshooter

The Mosin Nagant was an ISSUE weapon into the 1990s in Finland, Romania, and several other Eastern Bloc nations....The Romanian M44s that were sold in the US in the past 5 or 6 years or so were taken DIRECTLY from in service (granted, RESERVE, but still in service units!) I have several well used leather Romanian M44 ammo pouches that were stuffed with Romanian quartermaster papers for shipment, that were dated 2000! And one pouch still had a cigarette pack complete with one broken cigarette and matches from a contemporary cigarette company ("Carpat") in Bucharest!

Polish, are you seriously suggesting that the Eastern Bloc nations under the Soviet thumb issued obsolete Mosins because they chose to? Balderdash! In the soviet system, the Russian troops got the gold mine, and their "fraternal socialist allies" generally ended up with the shaft, which, by the way, is a good description of the 91/30, come to think of it.

[polishshooter]

Your point is well taken about the Eastern Bloc nations "under the Soviet thumb" as you say it, they were USUALLY kept one step behind the latest Soviet stuff...but the fact remains the SOVIETS still use the Mosin Nagant themselves as SNIPER weapons!


AND why do you THINK the Soviets wasted so much time and effort and money REARSENALLING all those MNs that were then wrapped in cosmoline and stored in the salt mines....to issue them AGAIN to the NEW "Peoples Partisan Army" when the West invaded them AGAIN! (Like we and the British did in 1919, and the Germans and Austrians did in '14 and '41, in just the LAST century...)

And you DON'T take into account the Finns...who COULD have had ANY weapon as THEIR sniper and reserve issue rifle. And it would have been EASIER to have any other as well, one of the conditions of the Armistice with the Soviets at the end of the "Continuation War" in 45 was that they could NOT make any MORE Mosin Nagant rifles....so they made the famous M39 "Sneaks" in the 1960s and 1970s, which MAY have been the best and most accurate ones EVER made.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

Your point is well taken about the Eastern Bloc nations "under the Soviet thumb" as you say it, they were USUALLY kept one step behind the latest Soviet stuff...but the fact remains the SOVIETS still use the Mosin Nagant themselves as SNIPER weapons

Of course they do, Polish. No argument there. We still used the M-14 for that purpose (and still do to some extent, I think) after the M-16 was adopted. Sniper use alone proves nothing, otherwise we'd have to include the Winchester Mod 70 (a Mauser based design, I might add! ) in the category of general battlefield arms. That's the rifle most of the snipers in Vietnam used, including Carlos Hathcock. Specialized use does not make a weapon a viable battlefield rifle.

[polishshooter]

True enough, but you have to remember it is ACTUAL Model 91/30 Mosin Nagants, most made PRIOR to 1944, that we are considering as the current sniper weapons, which is quite a bit different than the 1960s or later highly modified "specialized" Model 70s or Remington 700s only vaguely resembling the 98 Mauser.


And of course there is the little fact that the actual 98 Mauser even failed at GENERAL use as a "Battle rifle..." when it faced Mosins as well as Enfields, and of course, US Enfields, Springfields and Garands.