Shooting test-handloads through my M44 conversions...

[polishshooter]

This week I helped my buddy with "CCTV work" again (translation, work like heck to get the work done quickly to free up an afternoon at his range! ) and I got to try my first batch of handloads through both the Pole M44 conventional conversion and the Russian 'Scout."

I had loaded up some "midrange" loads of 45.6 gr of 4064 behind some 150 grain .311 SPs, that I guess from the tables i was somewhere near 2500 fps. But I also loaded up some of the same with some 150 gr .308 Bronze points from my wife's grandpas loading box, hoping I'd get lucky with one of them, maybe they'd be one of the "mythical" Mosins that liked .308 buddits...


Well, no such luck.

The Pole wasn't even ON PAPER with them at 100, so we even brought the target to 25 yds and it only put two of the three into the 12" target.

Switching to the .311s it grouped them into 2 inches at 100.

The Russian was a LITTLE better, it put them into about 6" at 100, but again, it shot 2" with the .311s....


SOooooo....mine don't like the .308s. Period. I guess in a pinch I could use them in the Scout if I had too I guess, but I'll stick to the .311s.

I couldn't get either of them to group less than 2", even letting them cool, but even when I tried the Prvi factory loads with the same bullets that grouped less than 1 1/2" through the Pole last time, I couldn't get less than 2" from either.

But then it was, as my eloquent English buddy said, "Hotter than the hinges on the gates of Hell" that afternoon, I had sweat pouring in my eyes and had trouble getting a good sight picture through either of the scopes...


Then we shot his "new" Marlin 95 .45-70 that he just mounted a 2x Leupold pistol scope on a "Scout" mount for it, and I got to appreciate the DIFFERENCE between a Leupold and my $15 used Bushnell, or my $80 NCStar scout scope! It was CLEAR.

I was also impressed that the .45-70 from a bench is a LOT less punishing than I thought it would be, NOTHING like a 12 guage slug.


But then he got out his model 70 Heavy barrel .223 with the 12 power Leupold and I was humbled...I was spotting for him to sight it at 25-50-100-150 and 200 so he could mark the clicks on the turret for the next time he goes after groundhogs...1/2" at 100 is PRETTY impressive...


And I think I need to upgrade my optics.


At least all my reloads went "boom", and there was no sign of excessive pressure, so I can try to kick them up a notch or two next time, maybe they'll do better....

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

The Pole wasn't even ON PAPER with them at 100, so we even brought the target to 25 yds and it only put two of the three into the 12" target.

So what's the problem, Polish? That's about average for all Mosin Nagants, isn't it? Now, had you been shooting a Mauser, it would have been a minute of arc no problem.

I hear you on the .45-70. The more I shoot that cartridge the better I like it. My H&R Buffalo Rifle, using handloads, was getting groups of less than two inches last time I was at the range. Big as it is, the .45-70 is an inherently accurate cartridge. I especially like handloading for it. It's easy to tailor the powder loads to the bullet you're using or the job at hand, and with a single shot you don't even have to crimp. The cases last almost forever.

[polishshooter]

OK, PS, you're on, a "Postal Match!"

Load up some 8mm cases with .308 bullets, and I'll load up my x54s with .308s, and we'll have a shootoff for group size! Mauser vs. Mosin, maybe even on pay-per-view!


I'll give you a hint, you'd better shoot at 25 and have at least 5 foot square targets....I however will be able to use only 2 foot square cardboard to contain mine...

[Pistolenschutze]

But Polish, why would I wish to load a cartridge intended for 7.92mm bullets with 7.62mm rounds . . . or a .311 cartridge with .308s for that matter? Sounds kinda counterproductive to me . . . unless, of course you like to hear the bullets rattle down the barrel.

[polishshooter]

That was my POINT PS... The fact that some Mosins SUPPOSEDLY group .308s well is why I tried it, as well as most all US loading data is for .308s...

You claimed the Mauser would do BETTER when I was talking about trying them, so I thought I would get some easy money out of you on the bet if I could get you to accept the terms without reading the SMALL print...

However, the idea of a postal match pitting a stock Mauser 98 against a stock Mosin 91/30, and then a scoped KAR98 against a scoped 44 or 38 and then posting the targets here is intriguing isn't it...Hhmmmmm...

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by polishshooter

However, the idea of a postal match pitting a stock Mauser 98 against a stock Mosin 91/30, and then a scoped KAR98 against a scoped 44 or 38 and then posting the targets here is intriguing isn't it...Hhmmmmm...

Not a bad idea actually, Polish, assuming there were some way to verify that the rifles were of comparable wear and tear. As you well know, there are both Mausers and Mosins out there that are simply worn out . . . the Mausers mostly from shooting Russians.

Originally Posted by polishshooter

That was my POINT PS... The fact that some Mosins SUPPOSEDLY group .308s well is why I tried it, as well as most all US loading data is for .308s...

So then, you admit at last that the Russians couldn't even get the bore properly sized on the Mosins?

[polishshooter]

I dunno, I seem to recall the 98 Mausers actually had TWO different bore sizes at one time...


But actually at least you can find .323 bullets to handload...Austria/Hungary bit the big one by upchambering the great Mannlicher M95 Steyr to their "proprietary" .329 8x56mm in 1934...or else I believe he just MIGHT have given Mauser a run for his money in sales...then AND now. But Mannlicher was a "homey" designer like just about everybody else at the time EXCEPT the huckster PT Barn....er, Paul von Mauser...

I REALLY like my two Steyr straight pulls, but reloading for it kind of sucks unless you cast...the ONLY rifles that ever shot .329 buddits is that one and the .318 Westley Richards....

[inplanotx]

Hey Polish, you ought to try these bullets in you MN. I use them in my Type 99 Arisaka. I used to use the .311, but I shrunk my group size way down going with the .312's.

https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_ses...5adad1e4c25279

[polishshooter]

Thanks, Imp, I just might. Plus if they DON'T work I can use them in my Long Branch I intend to load for too.

I also picked up last show some rather nice looking cast 200 gr RN with gas checks sized .312 for the Enfield, I just may try through the Mosin too....

[res45]

You probably want to slug that MN barrel before you run those .312 cast bullets through it if you bore doesn't measure out to around .310 at the widest point which is the grooves then hot gases are going to blow by the gas check and melt and cut that cast bullet and you will be scrubbing lead out for awhile my MN slugged out at .312 on the lands and .314 on the grooves meaning I needed a .316 dia cast bullet to work correctly .002 oversize is usually the rule of thumb. You can get by using a jacketed bullet that is undersized the .311 & .312 bullets shoot just fine in mine,jacketed bullets are not affected by blow by or gas cutting like lead cast bullets are. Also make sure you take one of your once fired cases and measure th outside of the case neck that will tell you the chamber neck diameter after you load one round with your preferred bullet measure the outside diameter of the case neck of the loaded round and subtract the difference between the two that will tell you how much of a release point you have simply how much room the case has to expand to release the bullet anything under .002 could cause pressure increases your mostly going to run into that problem shooting cast bullets but not always in old surplus rifles, With an over sized bores like mine is I cant shoot cast in mine as much as I would like to enjoy the cost savings.

[polishshooter]

Thanks, res, I haven't done any cast shooting through any of mine yet, just contemplating it....

My last reloads still got me only 2" at best through the Polish, so I am at an impasse until I try different bullets.

But this month I see SOG is listing the Prvi Partisan 150 gr SPs for like $9, they were the rounds that got me the little less than 1 1/2", so I think I will pick up a couple of boxes, try them one more time, if they duplicate the 1 1/2" I think I will buy around a case of it to put away, consider the test on the Pole finished, and "officially" declare it a "Deer Rifle."

Then I will start on the Russian Scout, I enjoy shooting IT better than the Pole, but for some reason 4-6" is about all it can do at this point. but I have been concentrating on the Pole, I haven't even free floated it yet, and I can see that ATI stock is as warped as the one on the Pole was....