derringer 45/410

[Mjolnir]

The thought came into my head that in summer when i won't be wearing as heavy of clothing I might need a smaller gun for carry. I recently saw an add for a derringer chambered for 45/410 rounds. I was wondering if anyone has shot one of these, and how controlable they are?

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

The thought came into my head that in summer when i won't be wearing as heavy of clothing I might need a smaller gun for carry. I recently saw an add for a derringer chambered for 45/410 rounds. I was wondering if anyone has shot one of these, and how controlable they are?

Mj, if you're talking about a traditional Derringer, i.e., the tip-up, two barrel kind, they are not very controllable at all. I have one of those in 9mm (uses a special plate to seat the cartridges) and I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it on a good day. What is worse, the durn thing really hurts the hand to shoot. I can only imagine what a .45/.410 combination would be like, but it certainly wouldn't be pleasant.

[Mjolnir]

That's kinda what I figured it would be like. Thanks for the info.

[delta13soultaker]

Check out one by Bond Arms....for a derringer they are pretty beefy.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Check out one by Bond Arms....for a derringer they are pretty beefy.

I've seen those Delta, and you're right, they are pretty beefy and thus easier to control. The only problem is, they are so bulky and heavy that they defeat the concealability purpose of a Derringer in my opinion. You'd be much better off, I think, with a small auto in .380 or a J-frame revolver in .38 special.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

I've seen those Delta, and you're right, they are pretty beefy and thus easier to control. The only problem is, they are so bulky and heavy that they defeat the concealability purpose of a Derringer in my opinion. You'd be much better off, I think, with a small auto in .380 or a J-frame revolver in .38 special.

Yes, sir. Exactly about the bulky size.

The gunshop downtown had one of the 3.5" .45 Colt/.410 models and it caught my interest hard. BUT when I pulled out my PPK/S to compare, and laid it on top of it/beside it...well they are for practical purposes the same size.

But if you are determined to have a derringer it is the most serious roscoe of that breed I've seen.

For someone who is a hardcore .45 Colt fan...it may make a good BUG to backup a .45 belt gun. Bond has some nice holsters for them. Could make a nice hideaway in a pack or saddlebag too.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

The gunshop downtown had one of the 3.5" .45 Colt/.410 models and it caught my interest hard. BUT when I pulled out my PPK/S to compare, and laid it on top of it/beside it...well they are for practical purposes the same size.

I must admit, I like that little blue-steel Walther of yours, Delta, almost as much as my Sig P-230. Of course, when Shellie poses with the Walther, that does tend to enhance its appeal a bit.

Seriously, I agree, you're far better off with the Walther with eight .380s under the hammer, than two .45s with the Bond. The Walther is far more controlable as well. As you know, the only rounds that count are the ones that impact the target. A .380 Hydra Shok will usually get the job done quite effectively, and there's always seven more in the mag if it doesn't.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Pistolenschutze

I must admit, I like that little blue-steel Walther of yours, Delta, almost as much as my Sig P-230. Of course, when Shellie poses with the Walther, that does tend to enhance its appeal a bit.

Seriously, I agree, you're far better off with the Walther with eight .380s under the hammer, than two .45s with the Bond. The Walther is far more controlable as well. As you know, the only rounds that count are the ones that impact the target. A .380 Hydra Shok will usually get the job done quite effectively, and there's always seven more in the mag if it doesn't.

Thanks, man. I was close to getting a P230...just a matter of taste won for the PPK/S. If you want...PM me and I'll send you a poster/page that was made of Shellie holding the Walther for a magazine or something.

I got a funny story about the PPK/S from back in April. I don't usually show off on a range...learned way before that activity is most likely to cause myself being humbled etc...but a loudmouth got under my skin.

This CCW instructor had a small group and they were at the end of their day wrapping up...one of the students was expending his last ammo at his target on the far wall...maybe 40 yards. The instructor yells, "You know? What you'd be better of doing with that three-eighty that far away Greg??!" The student shrugged. Instructor says, "Throw the whole gun! Be more dangerous! Harharhar". Now that rubbed me wrong because the guru was implying before the novices that basically a handgun is not deadly a mere fieldgoal kick away! Kinda negligent I think.

Then the instructor went into his speech about James Bond snap shooting BGs with a silenced PPK/S at 50 feet and how it doesn't work that way. He really had my attention then. His story still going he says he owned a couple PPK/S's that were jamming junk...kinda to back up his point...I guess he was headed toward the this ain't Hollywood speech. That was when I stepped back out of my cubbicle with my PPK/S and said "Was it one like this?" All I got was smiles and who is that guy.

So I hit the button and sent my target out to the 15 yard light and put 7 rounds through the forehead and brought it back to the 5 yard to continue on. The older lady in the group though said, with very Southern matter of factness, "Well he popped that one in the head." Pure ego but that's what I did.

[jacksonco]

I happen to have a Bonds Arms "Texas Defender" model in a 3' bbl chambered for 45 colt and 410 bore shot shells. Recoil is worse with Buck Shot than the 45's but I load my own 45's and they are mild loads. The gun is high quality but is pretty much regulated to ""belly gun"" type groups. I keep mine near the front door for when I have to answer the door after dark and keep it loaded with 2 1/2" OOO buck. I keep the Sig GSR loaded up in the bedroom and it and my glocks share carry time.

[Mjolnir]

Thanks for the input all. I didn't have my heart set on a derringer by any means and with my dads mentioning that he is considering one I think I'll leave it to him if he decides to get one given he has more money. Just took my xd sub-compact 9 to the range today and am very happy with the gun, like it better than my glock. Nice accuracy for a 3 inch barrel, fits my hand like a glove, and easy to conceal.

[AL MOUNT]

I had a Derringer in 45LC that I shot in SASS competition.

At Cowboy shoots the paper targets are about 36" away.....get my drift...

I have large hands, I sold the durn thing before I shot the end off one of my fingers....

45LC is a hella of a hunk of lead, I'll grant ya.....

But for hot weather CCW, I'd go with a small frame auto

and a pocket holster to hide the outline.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by AL MOUNT

45LC is a hella of a hunk of lead, I'll grant ya.....

I gotta say one thing you don't got to worry about with .45 Colt is expansion. It's already gonna make a terrible hole.

With a lot of short barrel smaller calibers...most of the JHP ammo never gets out going fast enough to work as designed. May as well be FMJ if it's not a defense round made with a 3" barrel in mind.

Not .45 though...it's already as big as a 9mm HP can hope to get.

[Mjolnir]

From the sound of it if I were really interested in a 45 for carry i might as well just get a compact 1911 with as big as the derringer is, and the fact that it'd probably be more comfortable to shoot as well.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

From the sound of it if I were really interested in a 45 for carry i might as well just get a compact 1911 with as big as the derringer is, and the fact that it'd probably be more comfortable to shoot as well.

Depending on your hand size...yeah a compact 1911 might be the ideal weapon.

http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?version=6

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

From the sound of it if I were really interested in a 45 for carry i might as well just get a compact 1911 with as big as the derringer is, and the fact that it'd probably be more comfortable to shoot as well.

You aren't going to find a .45 ACP (I don't think) in a small enough frame to do pocket carry. Even the Kahr in .45 is not small enough for pocket carry in my opinion. If you want to do an in-waist-band holster, then you can do .45 ACP for hot weather carry. For me, that's unacceptable. For ALL of the IWB holsters I've found, you really need your shirt un-tucked to be fully concealed. Even the ones that have hidden clips that barely show still say that you have something under concealment. For me, given the fact that I don't change clothes when I get home from work, and the fact that my work wardrobe doesn't yield any opportunity for un-tucked shirts, IWB is unacceptable...

[Mjolnir]

Ponycar, may I ask what you carry for warmer weather?

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

Ponycar, may I ask what you carry for warmer weather?

Keltec P3AT pretty much exclusively... It goes in the pocket, and in a pocket holster it cannot be easily seen by way of printing. Some would call this a compromise, and I agree that it is, but in hot weather it's necessary for me.

[Mjolnir]

My dad carries a Keltec, but for some reason I'm leary about them, and I can't find a good reason why. Maybe it's the low cost, and the smaller size of it that I'm uncomfortable with but a lot of people seem to like them.

[delta13soultaker]

Pony I think I missed the part where he said it had to be a pocket gun. If so, yeah that would rule out a micro 1911 for about 95% of people.

A lot of times I just drop my PPK/s in my front pocket and put an extra mag in my leatherman sheath on my belt. Works fine with jeans or cargo kahkis. If I think I might be under strutiny I use an IWB...which on me even my 5" 1911 is invisible (Except on motorcycle).

Mjolnir...if you're that comfortable with that baby XD I'd say save the derringer money and go buy some 9mm to practice with. Also, you may of heard this before, but a rule of thumb with 3" barrels...avoid heavy bullets, especially 147 grain...go with more lightweight bullets, the higher velocity equals more reliable expansion.

[Mjolnir]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Also, you may of heard this before, but a rule of thumb with 3" barrels...avoid heavy bullets, especially 147 grain...go with more lightweight bullets, the higher velocity equals more reliable expansion.

Hadn't heard that, thanks for the info.

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Pony I think I missed the part where he said it had to be a pocket gun. If so, yeah that would rule out a micro 1911 for about 95% of people.

You're right that he didn't give that as a requirement, but for me, IWB is not invisible if you have to tuck your shirt. Maybe I'm missing something?...

I consider warm-weather carry with tucked shirt a pocket carry only situation... I may be just too conservative on the issue, but for me it works...

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by ponycar17

You're right that he didn't give that as a requirement, but for me, IWB is not invisible if you have to tuck your shirt. Maybe I'm missing something?...

I consider warm-weather carry with tucked shirt a pocket carry only situation... I may be just too conservative on the issue, but for me it works...

I have seen it done....the tucking a shirt over an IWB and belly band rig but I never had the urge to do that. If I have to tuck in a shirt....to wear a tie...I put my pistol in my jacket or shoulder holster.