Practice clearing a stoppage - The Firearms Forum

TranterUK · 07-13-2008, 11:21 AM

Here's something I do that may be of use to others,

When on the firing range and you get a stoppage, or Jam as some call them, dont do what I have seen lot's do and look at the weapon trying to figure out why it stopped working.

Jump too it and clear it quickly, as you would in a fire fight. Its good practice and a good practice, if that makes sense.

So be it a stovepipe, miss feed or whatever, give it a smart tap, rack, bang and so on, or whatever drills you have been taught. Its like a free training opportunity. But do it immediately!

delta13soultaker · 07-13-2008, 12:20 PM

Good advice, Tranter.

Lot's of people practice with handguns that rarely if ever have a stoppage. To enforce immediate action into a habit they must perform drills.

This is the method I recommend for training:

First, practice immediate action drills on a dry weapon to instill the necessary muscle movements to perform the task. Correct form takes priority over speed. Focus should be on keeping weapon up and pointed downrange, keeping eyes on threat except to observe ejection port when slide is racked, and not breaking from cover or failing to use cover during the drill (if you're training with cover).

Second, during live fire, have random magazines loaded with a randomly placed "dummy round" or empty cartridge. The results will not lie.

An advanced drill I learned at work:

We used to place 5 ten round mags and our sidearm in front of the targets beside a track. Some of the mags had a dummy round inside.

Run a lap around the track carrying a heavy block in each hand. (This increases heart rate by running. Holding the block swells the forearms/tightens tendons and helps replicate the loss of precision motor skill in the hands.)

After each lap completed, load and fire a mag, unload and drop sidearm to hit next lap with your blocks.

During live fire it's a struggle to keep rounds in the A-zone. Clearing a failure to fire is pretty hard too. Count your score, subtract from your time, the numbers don't lie.

This drill makes you all around a stronger shooter.

TranterUK · 07-13-2008, 12:37 PM

Good advice again Delta, I especially like the dummy round system. It was used on me when training and I have used it a good deal when an instructor. To see those sights dip right in front of the students eyes is priceless in helping them learn the art.

I would also like to second practice of clearance drills off range with no live ammunition. very valuable, as long as duplicated on the range and under the eye of a proper instructor, not much point practising the wrong moves!

As for running around with blocks, maybe a few years ago. I would need a pretty scary drill instructor after me to do it today!

Pistolenschutze · 07-13-2008, 05:32 PM

Simplest solution to stoppages: Carry a revolver.

Seriously . . . I agree with both of you. Stoppages, just like constipation, will happen sometimes, despite the efforts all knowledgeable shooters take to prevent them. Practice clearing stoppages should always be part of the practice drill; it's darn near as important as being able to hit the target. A pistol with a jammed cartridge suddenly becomes little but a rather awkward club unless the stoppage can be cleared quickly. I too use the dummy cartridge routine to practice.

delta13soultaker · 07-13-2008, 06:06 PM

Tranter, very true on the instructor. A person really needs a coach to show them what right looks like and stay on their a$$ if they get sloppy. I suppose a person with much discipline may self-teach themself, but with a coach you get more results in less time with far less risk of bad habits. Just as important though....an instructor passes along information and techniques...what works and what to avoid.

Pistol, yes sir. Even if a person has a perfect sidearm that absolutely never fails....ammo sometimes does. Down at a local range they used to have some premium factory ammo on display that failed to fire...after pulling the primers they found that about 10% of the cartridges in that case had no primer flash hole in the brass!

sabashimon · 07-13-2008, 06:25 PM

Delta, thanks for the heads up on what sounds like a very useful drill.
I already employ dummy rounds in my training, but I look forward to trying out your drill. I can just about already feel the ham-handed result of running with that block, and then attempting fine motor skill movements.

Pistolenschutze · 07-13-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Pistol, yes sir. Even if a person has a perfect sidearm that absolutely never fails....

Like a Glock, for example.

Quote:

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

. . . ammo sometimes does. Down at a local range they used to have some premium factory ammo on display that failed to fire...after pulling the primers they found that about 10% of the cartridges in that case had no primer flash hole in the brass!

I've seen it myself, Delta. So-called "premium" ammo, Federal, Winnie, Speer, you name it, that the firing pin strikes properly and hard, but it fails to discharge. Granted, that doesn't happen very often (fortunately!), but it does happen. With military-issue ammo, I've seen a lot more failures than with modern premium ammo, though even those were relatively uncommon. I don't think there is a more frightening sound in the world than the sound of a firing pin clicking on a dead round when there is something more important to shoot at than a Q target!

mrkirker · 07-14-2008, 02:43 PM

Couldn't agree with you more RE: Practice clearing.
One of my 'students' caught a 'stove-pipe' during her CWP test. She didn't hesitate to clear and continue the firing sequence. The instructor's comment stopped in mid-word, to an "Atta GIRL!!"

delta13soultaker · 07-15-2008, 11:09 AM

Sabashimon, glad ya like that drill and hope ya have fun with it. By about the 3rd lap you'll be cussing me...and the last couple mags you'll be cussing me more trying to just keep rounds on the black. But over time if you keep using it, you will see your overall ability during other drills get better. Stationary fire is a breeze when you're conditioned to shooting under fatigue.

Pistol, military ammo does fail, but I can't say the stuff we shoot now is more or less prone than civilian ammo. Maybe in the past it was. Unlike civilian ammo, we actually have things in place to ensure our standards are enforced.

A day of training for us may see a ammo drop of 25,000 rifle rounds that we'll shoot before sunset. I've never seen more than 3 or 4 failed cartridges...sometimes I've seen 0....I think tolerances vary by lot.

Civilian ammo is similar. We were comparing brands of handgun ammo several years ago for the smallest muzzleflash against our M882 ball. (I think we decided Federal had the least followed by Win) Wondering why there were differences in the same brands, we realized that different lots of the exact same premium defense loads had different powders! Only the projectiles remained the same.

And yeah...the loudest sound a weapon makes is "click".

Smoky14 · 07-17-2008, 12:00 PM

Always carry a BUG, much faster than clearing a malfunction

TranterUK · 07-17-2008, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky14

Always carry a BUG, much faster than clearing a malfunction

If you mean what I think you mean, yes, there's not much faster than a second gun!

Though I may have misunderstood?

Smoky14 · 07-21-2008, 12:36 PM

Yep BUG= Back Up Gun

TranterUK · 07-21-2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoky14

Yep BUG= Back Up Gun

Hey, got it right. For the wrong reason though. I thought 'bug out bag' ie. last ditch.

Pistolenschutze · 07-21-2008, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranterUK

If you mean what I think you mean, yes, there's not much faster than a second gun!

Though I may have misunderstood?

Of course, if one is using a Glock as a primary weapon, there is no need for a BUG since Glocks never fail to function.

Just kidding, Tranter, just kidding!!!!!

TranterUK · 07-21-2008, 03:36 PM

Even a Glock can run out of cartridges, even a Glock can be snatched away from the owner, even a Glock can be dropped at the wrong moment, even a Glock can suffer a misfired cartridge and lastly even a Glock owner can use a back up once in a while.

Pistolenschutze · 07-21-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Even a Glock can run out of cartridges, even a Glock can be snatched away from the owner, even a Glock can be dropped at the wrong moment, even a Glock can suffer a misfired cartridge and lastly even a Glock owner can use a back up once in a while.

Well, if you put it that way . . . I suppose a BUG wouldn't hurt.

My choice has always been a Mod 36 Smith.

07-13-2008, 11:21 AM	#1
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Practice clearing a stoppage Here's something I do that may be of use to others, When on the firing range and you get a stoppage, or Jam as some call them, dont do what I have seen lot's do and look at the weapon trying to figure out why it stopped working. Jump too it and clear it quickly, as you would in a fire fight. Its good practice and a good practice, if that makes sense. So be it a stovepipe, miss feed or whatever, give it a smart tap, rack, bang and so on, or whatever drills you have been taught. Its like a free training opportunity. But do it immediately! __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way! --> Last edited by TranterUK; 07-13-2008 at 11:36 AM..

07-13-2008, 12:20 PM	#2
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Good advice, Tranter. Lot's of people practice with handguns that rarely if ever have a stoppage. To enforce immediate action into a habit they must perform drills. This is the method I recommend for training: First, practice immediate action drills on a dry weapon to instill the necessary muscle movements to perform the task. Correct form takes priority over speed. Focus should be on keeping weapon up and pointed downrange, keeping eyes on threat except to observe ejection port when slide is racked, and not breaking from cover or failing to use cover during the drill (if you're training with cover). Second, during live fire, have random magazines loaded with a randomly placed "dummy round" or empty cartridge. The results will not lie. An advanced drill I learned at work: We used to place 5 ten round mags and our sidearm in front of the targets beside a track. Some of the mags had a dummy round inside. Run a lap around the track carrying a heavy block in each hand. (This increases heart rate by running. Holding the block swells the forearms/tightens tendons and helps replicate the loss of precision motor skill in the hands.) After each lap completed, load and fire a mag, unload and drop sidearm to hit next lap with your blocks. During live fire it's a struggle to keep rounds in the A-zone. Clearing a failure to fire is pretty hard too. Count your score, subtract from your time, the numbers don't lie. This drill makes you all around a stronger shooter. __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

07-13-2008, 12:37 PM	#3
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Good advice again Delta, I especially like the dummy round system. It was used on me when training and I have used it a good deal when an instructor. To see those sights dip right in front of the students eyes is priceless in helping them learn the art. I would also like to second practice of clearance drills off range with no live ammunition. very valuable, as long as duplicated on the range and under the eye of a proper instructor, not much point practising the wrong moves! As for running around with blocks, maybe a few years ago. I would need a pretty scary drill instructor after me to do it today! __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way!

07-13-2008, 05:32 PM	#4
Pistolenschutze Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Colorado Posts: 13,094	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Simplest solution to stoppages: Carry a revolver. Seriously . . . I agree with both of you. Stoppages, just like constipation, will happen sometimes, despite the efforts all knowledgeable shooters take to prevent them. Practice clearing stoppages should always be part of the practice drill; it's darn near as important as being able to hit the target. A pistol with a jammed cartridge suddenly becomes little but a rather awkward club unless the stoppage can be cleared quickly. I too use the dummy cartridge routine to practice. __________________ --Pistolenschutze (Pistol Shooter)

07-13-2008, 06:06 PM	#5
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Tranter, very true on the instructor. A person really needs a coach to show them what right looks like and stay on their a$$ if they get sloppy. I suppose a person with much discipline may self-teach themself, but with a coach you get more results in less time with far less risk of bad habits. Just as important though....an instructor passes along information and techniques...what works and what to avoid. Pistol, yes sir. Even if a person has a perfect sidearm that absolutely never fails....ammo sometimes does. Down at a local range they used to have some premium factory ammo on display that failed to fire...after pulling the primers they found that about 10% of the cartridges in that case had no primer flash hole in the brass! __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

07-13-2008, 06:25 PM	#6
sabashimon Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: PNW/Israel Posts: 672	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Delta, thanks for the heads up on what sounds like a very useful drill. I already employ dummy rounds in my training, but I look forward to trying out your drill. I can just about already feel the ham-handed result of running with that block, and then attempting fine motor skill movements. __________________ "We sleep safely in ours beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm." George Orwell "If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace." Thomas Paine

07-14-2008, 02:43 PM	#8
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Couldn't agree with you more RE: Practice clearing. One of my 'students' caught a 'stove-pipe' during her CWP test. She didn't hesitate to clear and continue the firing sequence. The instructor's comment stopped in mid-word, to an "Atta GIRL!!"

07-15-2008, 11:09 AM	#9
delta13soultaker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Depends on Uncle Sam's whim every 3 yrs. Posts: 2,948	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Sabashimon, glad ya like that drill and hope ya have fun with it. By about the 3rd lap you'll be cussing me...and the last couple mags you'll be cussing me more trying to just keep rounds on the black. But over time if you keep using it, you will see your overall ability during other drills get better. Stationary fire is a breeze when you're conditioned to shooting under fatigue. Pistol, military ammo does fail, but I can't say the stuff we shoot now is more or less prone than civilian ammo. Maybe in the past it was. Unlike civilian ammo, we actually have things in place to ensure our standards are enforced. A day of training for us may see a ammo drop of 25,000 rifle rounds that we'll shoot before sunset. I've never seen more than 3 or 4 failed cartridges...sometimes I've seen 0....I think tolerances vary by lot. Civilian ammo is similar. We were comparing brands of handgun ammo several years ago for the smallest muzzleflash against our M882 ball. (I think we decided Federal had the least followed by Win) Wondering why there were differences in the same brands, we realized that different lots of the exact same premium defense loads had different powders! Only the projectiles remained the same. And yeah...the loudest sound a weapon makes is "click". __________________ Never say die! "A nation who forgets its defenders is soon forgotten itself." "A good shot must necessarily be a good man since the essence of good marksmanship is self-control and self-control is the essential quality of a good man." – Theodore Roosevelt

07-17-2008, 12:00 PM	#10
Smoky14 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Nowhere NM Posts: 656	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Always carry a BUG, much faster than clearing a malfunction

07-21-2008, 12:36 PM	#12
Smoky14 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Nowhere NM Posts: 656	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Yep BUG= Back Up Gun

07-21-2008, 03:36 PM	#15
TranterUK Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 5,103	Re: Practice clearing a stoppage Even a Glock can run out of cartridges, even a Glock can be snatched away from the owner, even a Glock can be dropped at the wrong moment, even a Glock can suffer a misfired cartridge and lastly even a Glock owner can use a back up once in a while. __________________ DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed. The light at the end of the recession tunnel IS a train coming the other way! Last edited by TranterUK; 07-21-2008 at 03:37 PM..