Colorado Boy Suspended for Nobama t-shirt

[artabr]

Originally Posted by Prizefighter

I could get on board with putting kids in uniforms, but it will not happen in this century. The schools don't have enough money to buy pencils and paper for the classrooms (at least not without cutting their precious two-bit sports programs, for some) so uniforms are right out for public schools.

It would have been wiser for the school to simply call the boy's family and try to respectfully make their case for putting him in a different shirt. The father probably would have still refused, but it would look much better for them if they could at least have shown an attempt to be... oh, what's that word we all like so much? Oh right, tolerant.

Most of the school systems down here have gone to school uniforms. The parents are the ones who provide the uniforms. Thankfully they haven't stuck the tax payer with that bill yet.

Art

[Deathbunny]

Originally Posted by Mjolnir

9 years of catholic school have convinced me of this as well.

Plus, those skirts are AWESOME.

[Deathbunny]

I realize this may not go over well, but... Does anybody else think this whole thing is blown WAY outta proportion? Kid wore an inflammatory shirt in an election year, got snotty with teachers, school over-reacts, and now what? Everybody's pis*ed off. Over this? Seems like an awful lotta flak over not much.
Hell, I once wore a shirt that said "Dip me in honey and feed me to the lesbians." To school. Did NOT go over well. With teachers, anyway. So I changed it, then put it on again after school. No biggie. So why all the fuss?
Oh, yeah. One other question: Do minors enjoy ALL the freedoms of adults? Voting? Keep and bear arms? Nope. So why flip out over a shirt?

[dcd_enterprises]

Originally Posted by mrkirker

I masqueraded as a teacher for a while, so, I'd like to express my .02$, if I may, though it might ruffle a feather or two.

I feel that a school system has to have the authority to monitor each situation in light of what ramifications might occur from the wearing of provocative clothing. In this instance, the statement on the shirt is plainly inflammatory, and could invite strong comments or actions that would interfere with an educational environment.

While the first amendment must be respected, the overall enviornment of the facility must be protected. Wearing this shirt during a tightly contested, emotionaly charged election is akin to shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater. Does one have the 'right' to express an opinion? Of course. However, one must have the common sense as to 'when' to express a dissenting opinion. When common sense fails, a commonly recognized greater authority must step in for the common good of those who must share the situation. Free speech, even in the issuance of dissent, must be exercised wisely.

As stated above, my opinion might have ruffled a feather or two.
"Snipers to the fore!"

I was in high school during the Clinton Administration. I made it a point to wear a T-Shirt once a week to school stating "Only in America can a Veteran sleep in a cardboard box while a Draft Dodger sleeps in the White House." Inflammatory? Assuredly. True? I say so. Right place to express dissenting opinion? Can you name anyplace better? The school system should be a place where a healthy debate on controversial and divergent points of view can be brought out. Math English, and, for the most part, Science, global-warming excluded, are for the most part cut and dry. History, especially political history opens up a whole new avenue, and can be taught in very different ways by very different professors, and result in very different educations. Mr. Kirker, you emphasized "Common Sense." I'm sorry, in more ways than one, but common sense left our public schools long, long ago, and any opinion that doesn't tow the politically-correct line-of-the-day is to be muted, not defeated in the arena of ideas. Debate is frowned upon unless the elite can open both sides of the argument, dumbing it down to the point of semantics between two liberal positions, because that is the only two possible positions.

I'm sorry, I must disagree, sir, but this young man exercised the same right as we're supposed to respect if someone chooses to burn a flag in protest, and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

His classmates, teachers, administration, etal. do not have a right to not be offended, and the sooner people learn that the better off they will be in life.

[45nut]

What DCD said

[mrkirker]

Dear DC, & Nut,

The school system should be a place where a healthy debate on controversial and divergent points of view can be brought out. Exactly! "DEBATE", Sir; "DEBATE"! Debates are held in carefully controlled circumstances, and argue a premise. The basis, of course, is to decide which team or individual offered the best arguments either ‘pro’ or ‘con’ towards the premise. During the course of a series of debates, one might find himself arguing in support of a premise that one might find morally repugnant, yet one must do so in order to present facts that will carry the debate for your team. Wearing offensive items is hardly a ‘debate’, although under the correct circumstances, arguing if one has the ‘right’ to do so, would (and is) fascinating material for a debate.

Does one have the 'right' to express an opinion? Of course. However, one must have the common sense as to 'when' to express a dissenting opinion. When common sense fails, a commonly recognized greater authority must step in for the common good of those who must share the situation. Free speech, even in the issuance of dissent, must be exercised wisely.
I guitly of a self-quote because it looks as though we'll have to agree to disagree!

If I am not mistaken, the 'rights' of minors are not legally the same level as those that are of age. (is there a legal eagle in the house?)

I don't know about your part of our country, sir, but someone attempting to burn the flag (US Flag) in my neck of the woods, would be an excellent example of someone being guilty of exercising poor 'common sense', as well as their first amendment rights.

do not have a right to not be offended

So, if I am reading your comments correctly, 'anything goes' because you consider 'anything' to be 'free speach'. Hmmmmm. . . If not, exactly WHERE do you draw the line? Or do you?

Deathbunny, yes AWESOME. I still remember Mary Katherine, Mary Ruth, Mary Alice, Mary Ann, Mary Jane . . . . .

[45nut]

mrkirker,

Don't misunderstand, I do not think that flag burning is anything other than a treasonous and highly inflammatory act. I personally would stop any flag burning that I witnessed.

I used it as an example that the libs and wackos use that it is a First Amendment right. It is not.

Wearing a t-shirt to school that fit the only criteria the school set forth, red, white and blue that happened to have the kids opinion of the current political candidates is, in my opinion, a totally different debate.

I think that as long as it is not profane or pornographic and it promotes discussion (aka debate), why not wear it and discuss it in class? Why not? Because schools are run by the LIBERAL ACADEMIA, not even moderately conservative people, but the FAR LEFT LEANING LIBERAL ACADEMIA

There is a theme here people, if you look very closely, it will blind you!

[45nut]

Hot damn, I found the ignore button

[Marlin T]

Kirk, I think that you need to step back and look at the bigger picture.

The school system is largely a union run organization, whose members are mostly liberal. When the majority of the system is liberal, those “””Wearing offensive items””” can be as little as are seen in the picture below. Or those offensive comments can be as simple as to mention going shooting or drawing a picture of a firearm. Shoot, you cannot even express your first natural rights of self-defense without fear of reprisal.

Look at how Obama is trying to shut down those ads by the NRA through intimidation. Same things with the schools now a days. They are starting to show their true colors again, and it isn’t red white and blue.

I was going to pass over the “””very negative fashion””” comment, but I can’t. It goes way deeper than that, it is how liberals are affecting America. Now that is in a VERY NEGATIVE FASHION.

The situation I described before was one time that I HAD to deal with them in their indoctrination system. In my everyday life, I do all that I can NOT to get stuck in a situation where I HAVE to deal with libs. Then if I do find myself in that situation where I HAVE to deal with libs I will, fire the offending person either boss or employee and extract myself ASAP from that situation.

God Guns and Country come first in my life, and it is everything libs are against.

Officials at the Merced County school confirmed Thursday that Jake Shelly was forced to take off a red, white and blue tie-dyed American flag T-shirt on Tuesday. The shirt said nothing offensive, just: "United States of America, Washington, D.C."….



Earlier in the day, he was speaking with a local news station when an unidentified teacher walked up to him, ripped off the microphone clipped to his shirt and told him he was not allowed to talk to the media.

District officials said they apologized to the student, his family and the local American Legion on Wednesday -- Constitution Day.

"In reviewing the dress code at the time, an administrator felt the shirt was in violation of that section of the dress code," said Superintendent Brian Walker. "She asked him to remove it and he did."

The assistant principal initially thought Shelly's T-shirt violated a clause of the school dress code that does not allow "shirts/blouses that promote specific races, cultures, or ethnicities."

[satellite66]

Along the vain of liberal indoctrination in schools. I have heard of many schools which have as part of their curriculum the watching of Bowling For Columbine, Fahrenheit 911 and An Inconvenient Truth. The kids are forced to watch these films. I have never heard of a school mandating that the kids watch Michael and Me. Have any of you?
To me this is a blatant example of liberal bias and a lack of desire to debate issues and present both sides of anything.

[45nut]

satellite66

SSDD with the socialistic fascist liberal government indoctrination camps we previously called schools.

[mrkirker]

Gentlemen, we're just running in circles here.
We're just gonna have to agree to disagree - and move on!
I hope the individuals involved in these instances can move on, as well.
Have a great day!
jP

[Marlin]

This issue has been decided in several Federal Circuits in favour of the student and against the system that interfered with one's Constitutional rights. I can't remember off the top of my head which Circuits, however, it is a sure winner for the student if they were to file suit on this issue.

Irrespective of whether or not one is pro or con teachers or the government [public] school system, the sole issue here is the application of the First Amendment rights.

[Mrs. DCD]

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't teachers in the classroom to teach the facts and not their political views? Perhaps this is why home schooling has become so popular. I don't let my son wear clothing with holes in them, or disgusting remarks, but when the Flag of the United States is found offensive, someone needs to be slapped with the Constitution. And hard.

[Trilisser]

If I may offer a foreign perspective on this topic, a Finnish perspective at that. First, I agree with Mrs. DCD that teaching facts is the teachers´ duty, not politics. Though I must add that Mrs. DCD´s last signature sounds very dark aged to Finnish ears (e.g. no serious Finnish politician would try to appeal with religious rhetorics). When I was in school some 15 years ago, we never had any political debate. And if I recall it right, the only movie we watched was the Finnish patriotic war movie Winter War. Though I might add that during the first few grades we were watching a lot of wildlife documentaries and especially documentaries on Norwegian culture and scenery as our music teacher and school principal were very keen on Norway, for some reason unknown to me. I remember that we even learned to sing "What Shall We Do with the Drunken Sailor" and "Eldankajärven jää", a wartime song with lyrics that would in all likelihood send the average US teacher ballistics...

Second, no school here would have any trouble with political slogans on students´ shirts or other clothing. Most people wouldn´t even notice such slogans.

We have never had school uniforms and I think that is the best way to go as uniforms and kids simply don´t mix well.

Third, I really wonder how can it be that native English speakers on many American fora (yes, fora) have so little respect for their native language. I do share Mr. Kirker´s comments in this regard.

[ponycar17]

This makes me recall an incident in highschool back in 1997. A friend and I brought back shirts from DC with a massive marijuana leaf in the background of the White House and a sign on the lawn stating "Keep Off the Grass," obviously alluding to Bill Clinton's drug use in earlier life... My friend wore it to class and was told to turn it inside out or go home to change. I couldn't understand how an anti-drug message would be so poorly accepted. and then I remembered that it may offend liberal-minded administrators due to its allusion to the Clinton administration. Yep, this is the same situation...

[millwright]

Marlin,
I can thnk of a smilar incident with my "younker" in middle school. He's dyslexic and was being bullied by several classmates. Several "discussions" following incidents pretty much had my son on the defensive....

I finally went to school and met with the Principal. In his presence I instructed Jake, (who had the physical skills and traning) to respond to the next physical assault with overwhelming force and I wanted to see blood. I then turned to the Principal and told him to "protect" the children of his social set.......by having them leave my son alone.....

It worked !! >MW

[thomas44]

What gets me is the double standard involved in situations like this. Anything pro-conservative, pro-Rebublican or anything that supports the principles of the founding of this country (including capitalism) is looked down upon by the elitist liberals in charge of the whole education system, and therefore are disallowed by the stalinist bastards !
If it's pro-liberal, pro Al Gore (e.g. An Inconvenient Truth), pro-socialism, pro Bill Clinton, pro B.H.O. it gets RAMMED down the unsuspecting students mouths ! That's what pisses me off.
But I'm sure that's all fine and dandy with the liberals who use the phrase "level playing field" all the time. Hypocritical elitist bastards !!!

Wow, I really screwed that up the first time-glad I reread and edited !

[thomas44]

Originally Posted by ponycar17

This makes me recall an incident in highschool back in 1997. A friend and I brought back shirts from DC with a massive marijuana leaf in the background of the White House and a sign on the lawn stating "Keep Off the Grass," obviously alluding to Bill Clinton's drug use in earlier life... My friend wore it to class and was told to turn it inside out or go home to change. I couldn't understand how an anti-drug message would be so poorly accepted. and then I remembered that it may offend liberal-minded administrators due to its allusion to the Clinton administration. Yep, this is the same situation...

DUDE !! Love the sig ! Great bumpersticker-probably soon to be banned, along with talk radio and any other free expression of anything anti-liberal.