which is better .17 hmr or .17 mach 2

[RimfireRat]

The only reason the MachII is the unknown and the HMR is the BIG Boy is the marketing. all the marketing went to the /hmr ,then ignorant gun writers followed by ignoring the HM2 or misrepresenting it as a lesser needed rd. It's a super tree or grd squirrel etc rd thru 100+ yds. (out to 100 almost flat) I relined an old 340 mossberg for my first experiment with the HM2 and have since purchased a Sav BVSS and a CZ American in the HM2 . Retailers don't want to stock stuff they are afraid won't sell, and the advertizing has been 4 to 1 on the HMR .any of my friends I've shown my HM2 to have all been impressed and bought one for theirself . I wouldn't trade mine for a HMR on a good day. my 22WMRs cover anything+ that the HMR can do. the marketing of the two 17s has suffered from the Bigger /faster is better mindset. thats is not always true when all is considered. Find some guys with the HM2 and they will be happy with it.--JMJ--

[stash247]

Rimfire Rat, check my prior post, about small centerfire .17's.
I just sent a bunch of money for another barrel, in the caliber, for a rifle for a grandson, in the works, which will be a .17 Ackley Improved Hornet, a caliber that can be loaded cheaper than buying rimfire ammo, and will double, or more, the .17 HMR numbers, and safely.
I like the MachII idea, because it fits into a lot of already accurate platforms; the 22 mag/.17 HMR does not have such a base; but what will the MachII do that a good .22 LR cannot?
Also, I am working on a rimmed equivalent of the new .17 Fireball, based on .357 Max brass, with the potential for 4300 fps velocities, and support enough to not expand the primer pocket; the rim, to work in single shot rifles, with more or less 'standard' extractors.
While I am a rimfire 'freak', I think the .17 is best in a center fire case.

[lb969]

One of the advantages to the .17 HM2 is that its based off a .22 cartridge, and therefore you can get refit kits to change a .22LR to a .17HM2. I think Ruger has some for their 10/22.


Just in case yall were wondering...


.17 HM2 vs. .17 HMR



I'm waiting on buying a .17 myself (until a clear winner between all the different .17's are settled), but I was wondering what the opinion of the .17 Fireball is?

[stash247]

ib969,you are a bit off topic, but let me offer this: The .17 Fireball is the legitamised version of the .17 Mach IV, a totally competent wildcat, for a lot of years; a lot more than either of the rimfire offerings.
As Remington's authoring of the .22-250, as a production number, so have they done, again, and God Bless them, with the .17 Fireball.
I am fascinated with the little .17's: the .17 Ackley Improved Hornet, and the .17 Bee, but may well buy a new Remington rifle, for the benefit of 'storebought' ammo, being available; we'll see about that.
I am, as well, working on a cartridge, based on the .357 Maximum, necked to .17, the rimmed equivalent of the fireball, with better case head strength, for use in single shot actions; again, time will tell.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by stash247

Also, I am working on a rimmed equivalent of the new .17 Fireball, based on .357 Max brass, with the potential for 4300 fps velocities, and support enough to not expand the primer pocket; the rim, to work in single shot rifles, with more or less 'standard' extractors.

Will lead even hold together at 4300 fps? I don't really know anthing about wildcats, or reloading at all for that matter, but I do know that 4300 fps is fast!

[stash247]

Originally Posted by CampingJosh

Will lead even hold together at 4300 fps? I don't really know anthing about wildcats, or reloading at all for that matter, but I do know that 4300 fps is fast!

That is a maximum load in the MachIV, with a light 21 Gr custom bullet, swaged by Todd Kindler.
Lead and copper will certainly hold together, at that velocity, assuming a quality bullet; an unbalanced one will come apart, quickly at such speed, and rotational velocity.

[2704deer]

Does the .17fireball not come into play when you guys are shooting small game at long ranges???
I only ask as I am trying to decide what to get to shoot rabbit at 100m plus
cost of ammo to a degree is not important unless it is rediculous, or we would all be using .22lr subsonics and getting closer to our game to secure a clean kill.
Has anyone got a fireball as the reports sound good.

[ivanthehunter]

.17HMR is surpassed in kill power by the .22HMR so why bother with it if you have a 22hmr.
The .17HM2 is completely different to the .22lr. Firstly its a further reaching flatter shooting round than the 22lr BUT its a lot louder.
The 17hm2 has no ability to shoot subsonic with any knock down.

If cost is to be ignored then I'd go for the 17HMR because it is the flatter of the two and i like the idea of point and shoot ammo.

In Ireland i have heard of boyo's taking rabbits out as far 200yards with a .17HMR......Know that sounds like a bit of craic

PS I'm new so go easy or at least be humane

[tonygrz]

I was told by my FFL/dealer that the 17M2 was being discontinued. I bought several thousand rounds because of that statement. Is it true ???????

tonygrz

[canonguy]

I am not a big fan or either. What good does it do to hit something if no damage is done? I don't think you can even clearly see the hole a .17 leaves in a paper target without getting arms length from the paper. I like the .22WMR and I think reports of it's innaccuracy are greatly exaggerated. Mostly due to early ammo and cheap rifles and rifle variation. I know farmers that take small deer with .22MAG. The .17 craze is another example of ammo manufacturers creating a "need" to sell things we don't really need.

[RCGUIDRY]

I converted a 10-22 to mach 2 with a bull barrel and bolt weight. it performs very well but is a small game rifle at 100 yards. I have however bagged a crow at a measured distance of 130 yards. the rifle is accurate enough to shoot small animals in the head out to 100 yards and stop them in their tracks. But is A Small game rifle. I dont think it is neccessary to own a hmr because I only use it on small game and 100 yards is my max range. so no need for the hmr for me IMHO.

[thomas44]

I think I'd prefer the .22 magnum over either, but that's just me.

[BADDOGGY]

I am in full agreement with thomas44. I have a new .17 HMR barrel for my 10/22 Magnum. It is accurate as the devil but has zero punch (but that's just me). I refer to it as a .177 Improved (the air rifle). I have fired thousands of .22 Magnum rounds critters since 1975 and if you have an accurate rifle, it is hell on wheels for jack rabbits. BUT at the same time I have to acknowledge the.17 HMR has its hard-core followers.

[gdmoody]

I voted for the Mach II, mainly because I have a Converted 10/22 in it. I bought a 17HMR when they first came out and did not like it (but it could have been just the rifle I did not like).

[21bravo]

p,
i personally prefer the .17 HMR. i have a Savage 93r17 with a BSA Sweet 17 3x9x40mm scope and a buddy of mine has a Marlin model 917V with a custom bull barrel from rock river arms. he has a Simmons Deerfield 3x9x40mm on his. both rifles shoot amazing. we both keep a 50 yard zero on our rifles and according to Hornady's ballistic calculator and my experience you can hold dead on at 100 yards because there is only a 0.3 inch drop. and .3 inches isnt gonna make or break a kill shot on a squirrel or fox etc. just my .02 but either one of these rifles is what id go with

[ivanthehunter]

After taking some time out to read up on this i have seen things in a new light.

It seems that the HM2 is nearly as flat out to 100 yards and the ammo is cheaper than the HMR,
Also it a better round for small game as it causes less damage to meat and pelts than the HMR but still with 17jacketed accuracy.

All in all i can't understand why its not taken off with better marketing..and more information to small varmint hunters such as as increased accuracy,flat trajectory out to 120yard,value of accurate shots(less ammo more kills) and still all cheaper than its big brother the HMR but strides above its parent the 22lr..

Is it going to be discontinued?? I hope not

JUST A NOTE:
The poll above is similar to 22lr ver 22WMR both have a niche and one is not there to replace the other, they differ in terms of noise, energy,
trajectory and damage to meat and over costs of ammo..

[ivanthehunter]

Originally Posted by lb969

One of the advantages to the .17 HM2 is that its based off a .22 cartridge, and therefore you can get refit kits to change a .22LR to a .17HM2. I think Ruger has some for their 10/22.


Just in case yall were wondering...


.17 HM2 vs. .17 HMR



I'm waiting on buying a .17 myself (until a clear winner between all the different .17's are settled), but I was wondering what the opinion of the .17 Fireball is?

From what i can gather the fireball provides shooting out to 300yards but again why bother with this light bullet thats trying to fight its way out to 300yards in the wind when the 22-250 or the 220swift(poss a nice 223wssm or a 270) will do the same range with much better resistance to wind and as all these round are in the 4000 fps area they all suffer fouling. Fouling of a thousand of an inch in a 224 barrel will not amount to much as a total % of the bore diameter but this % will be much larger than with the smaller calibers of the .17's(high speed 4000 fps area only) ultimately this effect sustained accuracy unless its countered by cleaning and maybe some special cocktail to coat the inside the bore to reduce friction or sometime else in the black magic area

The Jacketed HM2 and the HMR with their jacketed construction and lower velocities avoid this fouling.

[pigeon slayer]

I'll approach the question from a "performance for cost" standpoint. The .22 costs about $4.50 a box of 50 and travels at 1100 to1300 feet per second. It is a decent round out to 75 yards but then, it begins to have considerable issues with gravity. The .17 Mach 2, so named because it travels at twice the speed of sound "Mach"2.(approximately 2100 fps). It is a .22 Stinger case necked down to accept a .17 projectile. This ammo also costs about $4.60 a box or 2,000 rounds for about $185.00. The .17 HMR (Hornady Magnum Round) is a .22 Magnum cartridge necked down to accept the same .17 projectile. It travels 300 fps faster for $12.00 a box of 50. I have found NO appreciable differences in 300fps! Especially for an increase of $7.50 per box ! Both rounds are excellent performers out to 120 yards. Sure, I have hit birds out to 250 yards. But there is a LOT of hold-over. I have killed skunks, possums , raccoons and squirrels out to 125 yards with the Mach 2. It is a pleasant round, not requiring ear plugs, but the HMR does ! The HMR is LOUD. If you are shooting coyotes, move up to a .223 (which cost the same as the HMR)

[300 H&H]

Or you could find a 5mm Remington mag and have the baddest rimfire on the planet. Ammo s availble again, with a 30 gr bullet at 2,500fps. It died a slow death back inthe early 80's.... But thanks to Agila/Centurian it is avilable once again. I am quite sure Steve Hornaday had one of these in his rack when he dreamed up the 17 HMR. His runs at 26,000psi, same as the 22 mag. The 5mm on the other hand runs at 33,000 and takes a special bolt action to seal the chamber to prevent cartridge rim bursting. The rifles are Remingtons 591M and 592M. They are out there to be had. I also have a contender in 5mm. 10" barrel and 2,100fps is hard to argue with!

http://5mmforums.com/forums/index.php

Regards, Kirk

[Freebore]

You gotta love a question like this......you'll get as many opinions as there are cartridges.

So my opinion is:

...22LR, probably the best (fun,target, plinking, hunting, cost effective, etc. etc.) cartridge ever made, will most likely still be around after the human race is long gone.

...17HMR, a super high velocity rimfire which has excellent accuracy, good dispatching abilities (within its range), and no recoil or big bang. A fine cartridge that will be around for a quite while due to its popularity with the user base and manufactuers.

... 22 Mag, Nice cartridge, like the 17HMR it provides good accurcy, no recoil, or loud blast, and good performance, again, because of its popularity by the shooting fraternity and manufactuers, it is obviously holding its own in the world of rimfires.

...17 Mach II, kind a different story, while it may have some good points, the most negative issues are the three cartridges above, they are far more popular and effective in their respective classes, based on this I feel the Mach II is headed down the same no marketing/low sales road as many (now obsolete) fine cartridges have gone.

Remember, Its all about sales/marketing, not performance that keeps a cartridge alive.

As for Coyotes, (mentioned somewhere above) let's be humane, use a cartridges thats effective for the shot taken, not one that "I think will work", all of the rimfires are questionable at Coyote shooting distances, I would not take a fair shot at a Coyote with anything less than a centerfire 17 or 22 cartridge.

[CJ_56]

Only you can see this

Wow you narrowed me down to being one of about 4 million users. Great work. Or have you never heard of a proxy network? So, not so "scary".

BTW I certainly wouldn't say a .17HMR is more effective than a .17HM2. It's not as popular but that has more to do with marketing than anything IMO. I would buy an HM2 if I didn't think it would be obsolete because of ammo supplies in a few years. From everything I've read in comparison tests it is the better round.

[3/2 STA SS]

Originally Posted by thomas44

I think I'd prefer the .22 magnum over either, but that's just me.

Me too. I had a .17 and the wind played hell with it. For the price of ammo....22 magnum all day long.

[Ledslnger]

Originally Posted by Freebore

...17 Mach II, kind a different story, while it may have some good points, the most negative issues are the three cartridges above, they are far more popular and effective in their respective classes, based on this I feel the Mach II is headed down the same no marketing/low sales road as many (now obsolete) fine cartridges have gone.

The mach 2 is made from a necked down .22lr case. Don't think we will run out of .22lr cases in the future. It also uses the same bullets as the .17 Remington centerfire, the .17HMR, and the NEW .17 Hornet. Unless all 3 of those cartridges die I think we will have the bullets for the mach 2 also. CZ just released a new Quad like the Sake Quad which of course includes the mach 2. Don't see the cartridge going anywhere, especially since for the $$$ it performs better than the HMR. For the $$$ you can reload a .22 Hornet or a Ruger .204 and it TOTALLY outperforms the HMR!

[LDBennett]

The problem is the 17HM2 is a rimfire and not reloadable at home. While it may use 22 LR cases, that is of no use for a home reloader. So that means the only source of ammo is factory manufactured ammo. If the demand decreases for 17HM2 then manufacturers of ammo may be reluctant to set up ammo lines to make it. They only have so much loading equipment and setting it up for an unpopular cartridge, when it could be used to make ammo for a more popular cartridge, may not make economic sense.

So it makes little difference if the cases are shared with 22LR ammo and the bullets are available because they have uses in other cartridges. If the demand dwindles enough then you may not be able to get ammo. If you just have to have a 17HM2 then buy lots of ammo while it is available because it may not be in the future. The shine has worn off 17HM2 and only time will tell if it lasts as an available ammo.



LDBennett

[76Highboy]

Originally Posted by LDBennett

The problem is the 17HM2 is a rimfire and not reloadable at home. While it may use 22 LR cases, that is of no use for a home reloader. So that means the only source of ammo is factory manufactured ammo. If the demand decreases for 17HM2 then manufacturers of ammo may be reluctant to set up ammo lines to make it. They only have so much loading equipment and setting it up for an unpopular cartridge, when it could be used to make ammo for a more popular cartridge, may not make economic sense.

So it makes little difference if the cases are shared with 22LR ammo and the bullets are available because they have uses in other cartridges. If the demand dwindles enough then you may not be able to get ammo. If you just have to have a 17HM2 then buy lots of ammo while it is available because it may not be in the future. The shine has worn off 17HM2 and only time will tell if it lasts as an available ammo.



LDBennett

LDBennett, you always have good info. Thanks.