A 9mm question...

[TranterUK]

OK, deep breath, A double rifle is fine, its not a self loader, well none I have come across.
No Webley revolvers, again, there is a small loophole whereby some 'collectable' handguns can still be had, but it's easier to have sex with a gnat.
Yes, no handguns, a loophole gives a minimum rifle length so some people have revolvers with long barrels and a fixed 'arm/ wrist' brace. I dont like the idea myself.

Shotguns, same type of licence, single brls, side by sides, Over unders, self loaders and pumps OK but magazines limited to two.
Cartridges, no apparent limitation I know of beyond no HP or SP unless for hunting, but most ranges have a max power rating, but 7.62 x 51, .303 and 7.92s all seem OK.

Hunting, Yes we still hunt, stalk deer, various birds. I hunt. Hunting with dogs got banned a couple of years ago. I never did it, diddnt want to but couldnt see why that should prevent other people from doing it. What price freedom? no really, think about it seriously. I make no apologies for this line, people gave their lives so I could live as a free man, now others want to throw it away. As you Americans might say, 'it sucks'

[Marlin]

Thank you so much for the wealth of good information, Tranter and Pistol. I, too, am happy to see one from across the pond in our midst. I hope you become a regular member of the family.

It is always delightful when such a discussion crops up on the forum. We are, indeed, fortunate to have all the combined knowledge here along with some of the best folks around.

I appreciate both or you more than one will ever know.....

Yes, Pistol, if I had lived out in the jurisdiction of the 9th, those libelal nuts would have had a field day with some of my decisions. However, it most likely would have only contributed to the SCOTUS workload and the huge numbers of reversal for the 9th. Such a pity to waste all that tax money on the likes of the 9th..... Won't say much more as I feel my BP fighting for a TOP NOTCH. Can't afford that !!!!!

[TranterUK]

Pistol, Extra:
I just checked and here the stats for my local range, Max Cal .577, Velocity 1000m/s 3275 Fps Muzzel Energy 7000 Joules whatever they are, Ah, 5160 Ft lbs, that's better.

Also Maggie Thatcher, met her three times and felt intimidated, she was the business.

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

Pistol, Extra:
I just checked and here the stats for my local range, Max Cal .577, Velocity 1000m/s 3275 Fps Muzzel Energy 7000 Joules whatever they are, Ah, 5160 Ft lbs, that's better.

Also Maggie Thatcher, met her three times and felt intimidated, she was the business.

She was all of that, Tanter! There was tremendous respect for her on this side of the pond, just as there was for our President at the time, Ronald Reagan. Our enemies did not tend to mess with either one of those people much. The Argentines found that out the hard way in 1982 with Thacher, as did Miramar Kadafi with Reagan.

It is so sad really that the British government sets so many limits for civilian firearms. Britain designed and built--still designs and builds for that matter-- some of the finest small arms in the world. It is tragic that citizens of that great nation have so many impediments to owning and using them. Holland and Holland still builds world-class rifles, for example. I would dearly love to own one of their double rifles in .375 H&H or .416 Jeffrey one day.

Originally Posted by Marlin

Thank you so much for the wealth of good information, Tranter and Pistol. I, too, am happy to see one from across the pond in our midst. I hope you become a regular member of the family.

It is always delightful when such a discussion crops up on the forum. We are, indeed, fortunate to have all the combined knowledge here along with some of the best folks around.

I could not agree more, Marlin! This type of conversation is most pleasant indeed. It is always great to get the viewpoint of those from other parts of the world, especially from those with whom we have so much in common as out British friends. I too hope you will visit with us often, Tranter. I look forward to many such pleasant and informative conversations in the future.

[TranterUK]

Marlin and Pistol,
Its an honour gentleman.
I had to get this one in, it includes a 'gun mystery'.
I was visiting the Holland and Holland shooting establishment in Ruislip, West London 28/30 years ago. I was there to test a handgun before departing for, elsewhere (No secret, just forgot).
On the range were two guys accuracy testing a H and H double rifle with a large U.S. presedential seal set into the stock. They said it was gifted to Roosevelt by the UK and was back for 'a tidy'. Then they asked if I would like to try a couple of shots. Do bears walk in the wood's.
I shot and both bullets fell one half inch apart at 50yds, which from the shoulder standing seemed pretty good to me. Recoil? on the second shot the plastic fell out of one side of my Raybans.
So, nice tale, true story, wheres the mystery? I kept the brass, I have them now. They are .458 Win Mags, belted, which I think were introduced early 50s? So, how,

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by TranterUK

So, nice tale, true story, wheres the mystery? I kept the brass, I have them now. They are .458 Win Mags, belted, which I think were introduced early 50s? So, how,

Obviously, the rifle you fired could not have been one intended for either of our former presidents Teddy or Franklin Roosevelt, not unless it had been re-barreled to .458 Winchester from a different caliber. That seems unlikely. TR passed away in 1919, and Franklin in 1945. The .458 Winchester was not introduced until 1956 according to my Speer Reloading Manual data. Could it be that it was a rifle gifted to a different president, Eisenhower or Reagan perhaps? That would be entirely possible.

And yes, I know the feeling about the recoil of the .458. It is not a caliber one would wish to fire too many times in rapid succession!

[user]

9mm measure comparison at 50 yds.
-----
Brand/model Number Weight Type velocity/K.E.

Fed Premium HST Tact p9hst1 124 jhp 1060/310
fed premium hydrashok p9HS1 124 jhp 1028/291
Hornady 9mm Luger XTP 90242 124 jhp/xtp 1030/292
Remington Golden Saber GS9mmB 124 Bjhp 1031/293

[Gene Seward]

Corbon DPX 115gr. is unreal. After water testing it shows great expansion and I have gone to this in all my weapons for CCW.

[UncleFudd]

News flash guys.

Winchester XSTs are the same as Black Talon without the tef;on and the name.

Couldn't stand the lawsuits coming if someone was shot with that horrible "BLACK TALON". Just the name caused them to change , marketing at its" best.

But I still load out with either Hydrashock or Gold Dot.
UF

[inplanotx]

Originally Posted by UncleFudd

News flash guys.

Winchester XSTs are the same as Black Talon without the tef;on and the name.

Couldn't stand the lawsuits coming if someone was shot with that horrible "BLACK TALON". Just the name caused them to change , marketing at its" best.

But I still load out with either Hydrashock or Gold Dot.
UF

The "Black" on the Black Talon was NOT teflon. It was an oxide and not meant as a lubricant.

Yes, the Winchester SXT bullet is basically the same. Some minute changes were made to the bullet.

IPT

[user]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

124 grain Golden Saber is decent ammo (Avoid the 147 grain regardless of brand.)
...Southern, I took a look at Hornady TAP and it does look like some good ammo. I like Hornady anyway. ...

Agree.

Golden Saber is designed to be a low-recoil cartridge that's effective at short range. I find that it deposits more crud in my guns than other mfgrs' stuff. But it's designed for self-defense, and it's reliable and will work just fine.

My recommendation would be to see if you can find Federal Premium HST, and if it's a larger gun (e.g., a Sig 226, a Kahr K9, etc.) use the +P variety; in a smaller (especially poly or aluminum frame) gun, +P may make too much recoil. But it comes in boxes of fifty and is a better value than just about anything else.

When I was a manager of data processing, I had to hire programmers. I'd advertise in the Washington Post and get a stack of resumes about eighteen inches thick over three weeks. I didn't have time to find the very best person for the job. I needed someone who could do the job and at an amount of money my employer was willing to pay. So I would go through those resumes, and over a couple of hours, throw away about two-thirds of them. Some of those people were rejected because they didn't have a batchelor's degree. But three of the very best programmers I've ever known had no degree at all, and one didn't graduate high school. The optimal programmer for my job slot may have gone into the trash can. But that didn't matter, because I got people who were reliable, intelligent, competent, and adequate for the job, at the right amount of money.

The point is that you have to maximize effectiveness and value, especially in expendables like bullets. Look at the way people sell computer printers - they don't make any money on those, their profit comes from toner, cables, and paper.

You need a bullet that will do the job at the right amount of money. You don't need the best possible bullet, unless you're going to be executing search warrants on Columbian drug kingpins at two in the morning. And, since the guys who do that are on "low bid" government contracts, they're not using the best possible, either.

[USMCSpeedy]

For personal defense I prefer the Winchester 147gr XST. It is supposed to be the exact same round as the Black Talon without the teflon coating.