m-2 carbine

bonzy · 01-29-2009, 07:42 PM

I found a couple of m-2 carbines for sale, but dont know alot about the weapon. I was wondering if some one could help out with some prices and some models to look for? would appreciate any help

Alpo · 01-29-2009, 09:14 PM

M2 carbines are fully automatic versions of the M1 carbine. Are you sure that's what you're looking at? Prices ought to be around 10 grand.

oscarmayer · 01-30-2009, 09:37 AM

it could very well be a m2 that has been modified to fire semi-auto only. or it could be a m1 with a m2 bolt . after the war these things were piled up and gone over. just like with the 45 autos parts were interchanged. thats why finding a all matching one brings higher dollars. m2's were easily converted back to a m1 configuration by removing a couple key parts.

Bill DeShivs · 01-30-2009, 01:14 PM

M-2s converted to M-1 are still considered machineguns, under federal law.

oscarmayer · 01-30-2009, 01:19 PM

understandable i suppose given the fact from what i've read it's very easy to convert back to a working m2. anyone who would consider such a move is playing with fire.

Bill DeShivs · 01-30-2009, 07:05 PM

M1s and M2s are exactly the same receiver. Guns originally manufactured as M2s are considered machineguns. Once a machinegun, always a machinegun.

300 H&H · 01-30-2009, 09:03 PM

Bill,

Are you sure of this?..... I always thought since the fire control parts of an M2 are able to be puchased form mil-surp outlets, the controlled portion of the gun is the reciever, as only and M2 reciever will accept the M2 trigger components. Other wise you could take a stock M1 and convert it to an M2 with the M2 fire control parts,(trigger assembly at one time widely available), anyone could create and M2. I always have been under the impression the M2 reciever is the "bad" part here. Just someting I have read along time ago. You are right about the M2 reciever, "once a machine gun always a machine gun" Best regards Kirk

Bill DeShivs · 01-30-2009, 10:22 PM

Later M1 receivers were exactly the same as M2 receivers.
M2 receivers are classified as machineguns-period. The proper combination of M2 parts is also considered a machinegun. But you can't make machinegun (M2) a legal semiauto.
Wierd law, but if it's marked M2-it's a machinegun and always will be.

medalguy · 09-22-2009, 08:53 PM

To expand on Bill's comment, you can have two types of M2 carbines. The first is one marked on the receiver M2 and if this is the case, it was manufactured as a machine gun, and will forever be a machine gun. The second type is an M1 carbine with the selective fire parts installed. This one is a machine gun when the parts are installed, but theoretically the parts can be removed and the gun then becomes an M1 carbine. However, the set of parts removed constitute a machine gun in themselves and these parts do require registration under NFA, even though they are not installed in any weapon at the time. This registered set of parts can be then installed in any M1 carbine and removed at a later date, as long as they are kept together.

100 Bullets · 12-24-2009, 06:14 PM

M-2's are about 5 or 6 grand. I would not pay 10,000 for one, you would be getting ripped off.

Jim K · 12-24-2009, 08:27 PM

Where are they for sale? If in a gun store, is the owner a Class 3 dealer? If not, he cannot legally deal in automatic weapons, but that is his problem. If he is, then it is a good bet the guns are legally registered and can be transferred on a Form 4.

If for sale by a private individual, run, do not walk, away from the whole thing. BATFE has been known to try "stings" involving selling auto weapons to people, then arresting them for possession of same. It is against the rules to do that kind of thing, but not all cops play by the rules.

Jim

cakes · 12-24-2009, 09:08 PM

I, too, have been considering an M2. There are plenty out there for sale. I think the lowest price I've seen lately is $4800. The highest was around $8000.

All of the M2s that I've seen for sale recently have been marked 'M2'. Some are original M2s, and others had the M1 stamped out and M2 stamped next to it.

cakes · 12-24-2009, 09:18 PM

Of course, after I posted I checked *********. There is an Inland M2 marked M1. Buy now for $6250.

3/2 STA SS · 09-28-2010, 09:32 AM

My friend bought one from a guy who had NO IDEA what he had. A real M2-he had reassembled wrong and stated ''it dont work-give me $100 for it.'' My friend got it running and it shoots fine now. Really fun gun.

whirley · 09-28-2010, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill DeShivs

M-2s converted to M-1 are still considered machineguns, under federal law.

Are you positive about that?
M-2 carbine had operating lever, and a modified sear with a lever arrangement for full automatic operation. For civilian sale, those features are removed by the gov't arsenals. I've examined many carbines, all had the M-1 sear, no M-2 modifications except the M-2 stock was reused. Occasionally I've seen the later model round bolt. The flattened bolt was also used with the M-2 carbine. Of course later remodification by individuals back to M-2 are completely illegal.

Bill DeShivs · 09-28-2010, 01:50 PM

Yes, I'm sure. If the receiver is marked "M2" the gun is a machinegun, regardless of the parts. The exact same receiver, marked "M1" is a rifle.
I know it makes no sense, but BATF rules generally don't make sense.

medalguy · 09-28-2010, 11:57 PM

Yes this is correct. I was a class 3 dealer for many years and I still own an M2 marked carbine. The receivers on M1 and M2 are identical except for the number stamped on the bridge of the receiver. The trigger housing and several internal parts are different, and there is a selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever added to make the carbine fire in full automatic mode.

Removal of the M2 parts does indeed convert an M2 back to legal semiautomatic status ONLY IF the receiver is marked M1. If the receiver is marked M2, it was originally manufactured as a machine gun and it will always be considered a machine gun by BATF. It's common to find carbines with M2 type trigger housings, sears and hammers, even disconnectors included in the trigger housing, but the selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever are ALWAYS missing from any M1 carbine I have ever seen.

So, if the carbine you are considering purchasing is marked M2 on the receiver, forget about it. It's not worth 10 years in Club Fed. No way to ever make it legal either.

Jim K · 09-29-2010, 04:29 PM

Hi, 3/2 STA SS and guys,

If your friend is in the U.S., unless the guy who didn't know what he had transferred the gun on a Form 4 and someone paid the tax, your friend could be looking at ten years in prison if he is caught with that M2. Is it worth it to him?

As usual from me, a word of caution. It was legal, up to 1986, to make M2 kits for sale to the public on a Form 4. At first, GI parts were used. But when those parts ran out, some makers had repros made, especially of the disconnector lever, which was usually the serial numbered part. While the GI levers were fairly thick, made of good steel, and hardened, the repros are almost always thin and unhardened; many have lasted only a dozen or so rounds of FA fire before either bending or breaking. That meant the kit was ruined and a new lever could be acquired only with another Form 4 and tax. Since 1986, even that route is expensive.

So if you plan to acquire an M2 kit, or a carbine with full auto parts, make sure someone knowledgeable looks at the parts; otherwise, the expensive kit may turn out to be an expensive dud.

Jim

3/2 STA SS · 09-30-2010, 09:51 AM

Hi JimK

Yes I know and am familiar withe the Federal rules. I am a former Deputy and he is a retired Deputy. He has a class 3 and I have a class 2. Thanks for the warning. I know you don't want to see anyone get in trouble as your posts are always informative. I love this place!

Jim K · 12-14-2010, 01:56 PM

Hi, 3/2 STA SS,

I am confused. If the guy didn't know what the M2 was, had he registered it? If it wasn't registered, not even a Class 3 dealer or a Class 2 manufacturer* can buy it or have it transferred legally. And the deputy status means nothing. A LEO can't own an unregistered MG; if he seizes an unregistered gun, it has to be turned into his department for registration on a Form 10 for offical use, or destroyed. Quite a few LEO's have gotten in big trouble by thinking their commission allowed them to own unregistered machineguns. Not so.

*A Class 2 SOT (manufacturer of NFA firearms) can MAKE machineguns for sale to law enforcement/military (or "testing" by himself) but he can't ACQUIRE unregistered machineguns unless they have been deactivated per BATFE rules, in which case they are the same as any scrap metal and he can use scrap to make a machinegun. Note that it is not even legal to deactivate or cut up or destroy an unregistered MG. The deactivated receivers on the market were cut up in bonded warehouses after being brought from overseas, so they were never legally in the US.

Jim

3/2 STA SS · 01-19-2011, 09:29 PM

Jim,
Issued through a department you can. I had mine. It depends on the department. I no longer have it because I am out of Law Enforcement.

BDMerc1 · 05-17-2011, 11:01 AM

I realize this thread hasn't been active for a while, but I wanted to ask, is it not the case that "once a machine gun, always a machinegun" not only applies to machine gun receivers, but any gun that gets registered as a machine gun, whether it's in working order or not(?). More broadly put "once a registered NFA item, always a NFA item" (?) since I can't take my suppressor apart and sell the tube as a non-nfa part. What do you have to do to make a NFA item, no longer a NFA item? I've got Sionics suppresors that cost more to sell and transfer than they are worth. What is the process for deactivating them so that the NFA will consider them deactivated? Do I need to get a torch and have an ATF agent witness me cutting them up? Can I send them to ATF for destruction? How do I get something in writing to show that the suppressors are destroyed?

Also, as for the M2 Carbine discussion which this thread originally was mean't to address, yes, my experience is that there are a number of tranferable M1 conversions that are set up for select fire, some good, some crap. They are not M2 Carbines just because they are set up like a M2, anymore than an AR-15 conversion becomes a M-16 because it's select fire. To be an M2 Carbine, wouldn't it have to be either a M1 overstamp, or Factory stamped as a M2? Plainfield made M2 Carbines, but I don't know much about them.

The $5k to $6k figure may apply for one of the many M1 Carbine conversions, but there are C&R Transferable Military M2 Carbines that are a good deal more valuable, especially to collectors.

01-29-2009, 07:42 PM	#1
bonzy Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1	m-2 carbine I found a couple of m-2 carbines for sale, but dont know alot about the weapon. I was wondering if some one could help out with some prices and some models to look for? would appreciate any help -->

01-29-2009, 09:14 PM	#2
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,647	Re: m-2 carbine M2 carbines are fully automatic versions of the M1 carbine. Are you sure that's what you're looking at? Prices ought to be around 10 grand.

01-30-2009, 09:37 AM	#3
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: m-2 carbine it could very well be a m2 that has been modified to fire semi-auto only. or it could be a m1 with a m2 bolt . after the war these things were piled up and gone over. just like with the 45 autos parts were interchanged. thats why finding a all matching one brings higher dollars. m2's were easily converted back to a m1 configuration by removing a couple key parts.

01-30-2009, 01:14 PM	#4
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,467	Re: m-2 carbine M-2s converted to M-1 are still considered machineguns, under federal law. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

01-30-2009, 01:19 PM	#5
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: m-2 carbine understandable i suppose given the fact from what i've read it's very easy to convert back to a working m2. anyone who would consider such a move is playing with fire.

01-30-2009, 07:05 PM	#6
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,467	Re: m-2 carbine M1s and M2s are exactly the same receiver. Guns originally manufactured as M2s are considered machineguns. Once a machinegun, always a machinegun. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

01-30-2009, 09:03 PM	#7
300 H&H Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,796	Re: m-2 carbine Bill, Are you sure of this?..... I always thought since the fire control parts of an M2 are able to be puchased form mil-surp outlets, the controlled portion of the gun is the reciever, as only and M2 reciever will accept the M2 trigger components. Other wise you could take a stock M1 and convert it to an M2 with the M2 fire control parts,(trigger assembly at one time widely available), anyone could create and M2. I always have been under the impression the M2 reciever is the "bad" part here. Just someting I have read along time ago. You are right about the M2 reciever, "once a machine gun always a machine gun" Best regards Kirk Last edited by 300 H&H; 01-30-2009 at 10:21 PM..

01-30-2009, 10:22 PM	#8
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,467	Re: m-2 carbine Later M1 receivers were exactly the same as M2 receivers. M2 receivers are classified as machineguns-period. The proper combination of M2 parts is also considered a machinegun. But you can't make machinegun (M2) a legal semiauto. Wierd law, but if it's marked M2-it's a machinegun and always will be. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

09-22-2009, 08:53 PM	#9
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: m-2 carbine To expand on Bill's comment, you can have two types of M2 carbines. The first is one marked on the receiver M2 and if this is the case, it was manufactured as a machine gun, and will forever be a machine gun. The second type is an M1 carbine with the selective fire parts installed. This one is a machine gun when the parts are installed, but theoretically the parts can be removed and the gun then becomes an M1 carbine. However, the set of parts removed constitute a machine gun in themselves and these parts do require registration under NFA, even though they are not installed in any weapon at the time. This registered set of parts can be then installed in any M1 carbine and removed at a later date, as long as they are kept together.

12-24-2009, 06:14 PM	#10
100 Bullets Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 13	Re: m-2 carbine M-2's are about 5 or 6 grand. I would not pay 10,000 for one, you would be getting ripped off.

12-24-2009, 08:27 PM	#11
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: m-2 carbine Where are they for sale? If in a gun store, is the owner a Class 3 dealer? If not, he cannot legally deal in automatic weapons, but that is his problem. If he is, then it is a good bet the guns are legally registered and can be transferred on a Form 4. If for sale by a private individual, run, do not walk, away from the whole thing. BATFE has been known to try "stings" involving selling auto weapons to people, then arresting them for possession of same. It is against the rules to do that kind of thing, but not all cops play by the rules. Jim

12-24-2009, 09:08 PM	#12
cakes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern Maine Posts: 230	Re: m-2 carbine I, too, have been considering an M2. There are plenty out there for sale. I think the lowest price I've seen lately is $4800. The highest was around $8000. All of the M2s that I've seen for sale recently have been marked 'M2'. Some are original M2s, and others had the M1 stamped out and M2 stamped next to it. __________________ If at first you don't succeed, shoot, shoot again.

12-24-2009, 09:18 PM	#13
cakes V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Northern Maine Posts: 230	Re: m-2 carbine Of course, after I posted I checked *********. There is an Inland M2 marked M1. Buy now for $6250. __________________ If at first you don't succeed, shoot, shoot again.

09-28-2010, 09:32 AM	#14
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,435	Re: m-2 carbine My friend bought one from a guy who had NO IDEA what he had. A real M2-he had reassembled wrong and stated ''it dont work-give me $100 for it.'' My friend got it running and it shoots fine now. Really fun gun.

09-28-2010, 01:50 PM	#16
Bill DeShivs Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Contributor Posts: 1,467	Re: m-2 carbine Yes, I'm sure. If the receiver is marked "M2" the gun is a machinegun, regardless of the parts. The exact same receiver, marked "M1" is a rifle. I know it makes no sense, but BATF rules generally don't make sense. __________________ Bill DeShivs www.billdeshivs.com

09-28-2010, 11:57 PM	#17
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: m-2 carbine Yes this is correct. I was a class 3 dealer for many years and I still own an M2 marked carbine. The receivers on M1 and M2 are identical except for the number stamped on the bridge of the receiver. The trigger housing and several internal parts are different, and there is a selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever added to make the carbine fire in full automatic mode. Removal of the M2 parts does indeed convert an M2 back to legal semiautomatic status ONLY IF the receiver is marked M1. If the receiver is marked M2, it was originally manufactured as a machine gun and it will always be considered a machine gun by BATF. It's common to find carbines with M2 type trigger housings, sears and hammers, even disconnectors included in the trigger housing, but the selector switch, selector spring, and disconnector lever are ALWAYS missing from any M1 carbine I have ever seen. So, if the carbine you are considering purchasing is marked M2 on the receiver, forget about it. It's not worth 10 years in Club Fed. No way to ever make it legal either.

09-29-2010, 04:29 PM	#18
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: m-2 carbine Hi, 3/2 STA SS and guys, If your friend is in the U.S., unless the guy who didn't know what he had transferred the gun on a Form 4 and someone paid the tax, your friend could be looking at ten years in prison if he is caught with that M2. Is it worth it to him? As usual from me, a word of caution. It was legal, up to 1986, to make M2 kits for sale to the public on a Form 4. At first, GI parts were used. But when those parts ran out, some makers had repros made, especially of the disconnector lever, which was usually the serial numbered part. While the GI levers were fairly thick, made of good steel, and hardened, the repros are almost always thin and unhardened; many have lasted only a dozen or so rounds of FA fire before either bending or breaking. That meant the kit was ruined and a new lever could be acquired only with another Form 4 and tax. Since 1986, even that route is expensive. So if you plan to acquire an M2 kit, or a carbine with full auto parts, make sure someone knowledgeable looks at the parts; otherwise, the expensive kit may turn out to be an expensive dud. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 09-29-2010 at 04:31 PM..

09-30-2010, 09:51 AM	#19
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,435	Re: m-2 carbine Hi JimK Yes I know and am familiar withe the Federal rules. I am a former Deputy and he is a retired Deputy. He has a class 3 and I have a class 2. Thanks for the warning. I know you don't want to see anyone get in trouble as your posts are always informative. I love this place!

12-14-2010, 01:56 PM	#20
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: m-2 carbine Hi, 3/2 STA SS, I am confused. If the guy didn't know what the M2 was, had he registered it? If it wasn't registered, not even a Class 3 dealer or a Class 2 manufacturer* can buy it or have it transferred legally. And the deputy status means nothing. A LEO can't own an unregistered MG; if he seizes an unregistered gun, it has to be turned into his department for registration on a Form 10 for offical use, or destroyed. Quite a few LEO's have gotten in big trouble by thinking their commission allowed them to own unregistered machineguns. Not so. *A Class 2 SOT (manufacturer of NFA firearms) can MAKE machineguns for sale to law enforcement/military (or "testing" by himself) but he can't ACQUIRE unregistered machineguns unless they have been deactivated per BATFE rules, in which case they are the same as any scrap metal and he can use scrap to make a machinegun. Note that it is not even legal to deactivate or cut up or destroy an unregistered MG. The deactivated receivers on the market were cut up in bonded warehouses after being brought from overseas, so they were never legally in the US. Jim

01-19-2011, 09:29 PM	#21
3/2 STA SS Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Tampa Bay Area, FL Posts: 1,435	Re: m-2 carbine Jim, Issued through a department you can. I had mine. It depends on the department. I no longer have it because I am out of Law Enforcement. __________________ MORS DE CONTACTUS-DEATH ON CONTACT

05-17-2011, 11:01 AM	#22
BDMerc1 Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 2	Re: m-2 carbine I realize this thread hasn't been active for a while, but I wanted to ask, is it not the case that "once a machine gun, always a machinegun" not only applies to machine gun receivers, but any gun that gets registered as a machine gun, whether it's in working order or not(?). More broadly put "once a registered NFA item, always a NFA item" (?) since I can't take my suppressor apart and sell the tube as a non-nfa part. What do you have to do to make a NFA item, no longer a NFA item? I've got Sionics suppresors that cost more to sell and transfer than they are worth. What is the process for deactivating them so that the NFA will consider them deactivated? Do I need to get a torch and have an ATF agent witness me cutting them up? Can I send them to ATF for destruction? How do I get something in writing to show that the suppressors are destroyed? Also, as for the M2 Carbine discussion which this thread originally was mean't to address, yes, my experience is that there are a number of tranferable M1 conversions that are set up for select fire, some good, some crap. They are not M2 Carbines just because they are set up like a M2, anymore than an AR-15 conversion becomes a M-16 because it's select fire. To be an M2 Carbine, wouldn't it have to be either a M1 overstamp, or Factory stamped as a M2? Plainfield made M2 Carbines, but I don't know much about them. The $5k to $6k figure may apply for one of the many M1 Carbine conversions, but there are C&R Transferable Military M2 Carbines that are a good deal more valuable, especially to collectors.