What are the Federal Gunlaws on Carry?

[johnlives4christ]

i know some of the laws, but is there any i missed here. for concealed carrying, where can i not carry. i know as follows.

government building
federal buildings.
court house
jail, police station
schools
daycares
post office


now when i took my ccw class they covered all of this. but they said..... and any other place covered by federal law. so i need help defining what those places are. i've always heard no carrying in a bank. also i have heard churches and hospitals. but the class instructors said that hospitals and churches were not covered as long as the didnt have a sign up. i asked specifically. so does anyone know of other places i will not be able to carry when i get the license. i live in kentucky, so i want to stay away from state specific laws for other states.

[graehaven]

May be something here:

http://www.handgunlaw.us/

[johnlives4christ]

i still havent been able to find out if i can carry in a bank in my state... seems like people ignore my little questions from time to time


graehaven, thanks for the link, i checked it out and it was very interesting, but it really didnt tell me much i didnt already know... and there was some debate as to the bank thing, nothing though that was solid either direction for KY

[graehaven]

I've never heard that you can't carry in a bank. As a licensed concealed carry owner, you should be able to, no problem.

That's not a law here in NY, and we have some of the most stupid, oppressive gun laws anywhere.

[RunningOnMT]

Here is the federal law on carrying firearms;

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[LurpyGeek]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

Here is the federal law on carrying firearms;

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Whether or not that would stand up in court is sadly questionable.

I don't know what the federal laws are regarding CCW, I've just become as familiar as possible with my state laws. Most of them overlap the federal laws so I'm covered. However in some areas the laws are quite vague and I think this is intentionally so. The non-specific regulation allows prosecution of "infractions" whenever a government official feels like it.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by LurpyGeek

Whether or not that would stand up in court is sadly questionable.

I don't know what the federal laws are regarding CCW, I've just become as familiar as possible with my state laws. Most of them overlap the federal laws so I'm covered. However in some areas the laws are quite vague and I think this is intentionally so. The non-specific regulation allows prosecution of "infractions" whenever a government official feels like it.

I could be so wrong it isn't funny, but I don't believe there are any federal laws regarding carry other than the second amendment. Under the tenth amendment the regulation of firearms is left to the individual states, but that brings another question to mind which I think I'll bring up in another post.

As to your comment about laws being vague, I have a really good example of what you are saying here in my own state. Up until a few years ago when the concealed carry law was passed in Ohio there was no provision for granting pre approval or licensing of concealed carry, and yet under certain conditions it may not have been illegal.

If someone was in a business that required them to frequently have large sums of money or valuables in their possesion, say as in the case of a jeweler, or they had legitimate reason to fear their life was threatened, they MIGHT have been legal in carrying a concealed weapon.

The law was ambiguous enough that one could never know ahead of time if the act of carry was legal or illegal for their circumstances. They just had to take their chances and carry.

If law enforecement discovered they were carrying and they were charged with unlawful concealed carry it was up to a judge to determine if they had just cause for carry. Thankfully this is no longer the case.

[LurpyGeek]

I should have been more clear. I was referring more to firearms laws in general than to CCW laws.

For example, I have called the state Bureau of Land Management and asked questions about the legalities of target shooting in different places and depending on who I spoke with I've received as many as three different answers.

[RunningOnMT]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

i know some of the laws, but is there any i missed here. for concealed carrying, where can i not carry. i know as follows.

government building
federal buildings.
court house
jail, police station
schools
daycares
post office


now when i took my ccw class they covered all of this. but they said..... and any other place covered by federal law. so i need help defining what those places are. i've always heard no carrying in a bank. also i have heard churches and hospitals. but the class instructors said that hospitals and churches were not covered as long as the didnt have a sign up. i asked specifically. so does anyone know of other places i will not be able to carry when i get the license. i live in kentucky, so i want to stay away from state specific laws for other states.

I had thought the list of places you couldn't carry was mandated by state and not federal law. In my CCW class we were given a similar (but not identical) list. They were government offices (all jurisdictions), schools, and churches (which is just plain stupid). I'm not sure if a post office is considered a government office or not. USPS is supposed to be a non governtal agency. But then, my CCW instructor left a lot to be desired. Logic tells me that day cares are the same as schools.

[OBrien]

I was in the post office the other day and saw a no firearms sign. So my guess is that the post office is another no go.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

i still havent been able to find out if i can carry in a bank in my state... seems like people ignore my little questions from time to time


graehaven, thanks for the link, i checked it out and it was very interesting, but it really didnt tell me much i didnt already know... and there was some debate as to the bank thing, nothing though that was solid either direction for KY

I don't know about KY, but in NC is it illegal to carry any firearm, concealed or otherwise, into any "financial institution" so it's possible you may not be allowed to carry concealed in a bank in KY.

[RunningOnMT]

All this leads to another question. What about the case where a private establishment where concealed carry is not prohibited by law chooses not to allow firearms and hangs a sign?

If you carry in such a business are you subject to arrest or can you only be asked to leave?

If you are subject to arrest is the penalty as bad as if carrying into a place where legislation prohibits it?

[johnlives4christ]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

All this leads to another question. What about the case where a private establishment where concealed carry is not prohibited by law chooses not to allow firearms and hangs a sign?

If you carry in such a business are you subject to arrest or can you only be asked to leave?

If you are subject to arrest is the penalty as bad as if carrying into a place where legislation prohibits it?

hello romt, i have learned that here in kentucky, that if you carry a gun into a place that is a private business and has a sign up, the onlything they can do to you is ask you to leave. i am sure the could call the cops, but i merely wasn't watching for the sign, or forgot it was on me. but it isnt a criminal offence. if i carry and dont have my lisence on me when asked for it, it is a non criminal offence with a penalty of 25 dollars. im sure they would through the book at me if i carried in a courthouse or jail or something like that.

someone mentioned churches, and here you can carry in a church as long as there isnt a sign.

[conan1]

I live in KY and I do not read anything in the KRS that states no carry in church. I carry mine. If a sign is posted then all you have to do is leave.

Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License
237.110
• Police station or sheriff's office.
• Detention facility, prison or jail
• Courthouse (Court of Justice, courtroom or court proceeding).
• County, municipal, or special district governing body meetings
• General Assembly session, including committee meetings.
• Any portion of an establishment licensed to dispense beer or alcoholic beverages for consumption on
the premises, which portion of the establishment is primarily devoted to that purpose;
• Elementary or secondary school facilities or any other property owned, used, or operated by any
board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public
or private educational institution. The provisions of this section shall not apply to institutions of
postsecondary or higher education. Note: Unlawful possession of a weapon on school property in
Kentucky is a felony punishable by a maximum of five (5) years in prison and a ten thousand dollar
($10,000) fine.
• Child-caring facilities, day care centers, or any certified family child care home.
• Areas within airport where restricted access is controlled by the inspection of persons or property.
• Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law
• The owner, business or commercial lessee, or manager of a private business enterprise, day-care
center as defined in KRS 199.894 or certified or licensed family child-care home as defined in KRS
199.8982, or a health-care facility licensed under KRS Chapter 216B, except facilities renting or
leasing housing, may prohibit persons holding concealed deadly weapon licenses from carrying
concealed deadly weapons on the premises and may prohibit employees, not authorized by the
employer, holding concealed deadly weapons licenses from carrying concealed deadly weapons on
the property of the employer. If the building or the premises are open to the public, the employer or
business enterprise shall post signs on or about the premises if carrying concealed weapons is
prohibited.
• Possession of weapons, or ammunition, or both in a vehicle on the premises shall not be a criminal
offense so long as the weapons, or ammunition, or both are not removed from the vehicle or
brandished while the vehicle is on the premises. A private but not a public employer may prohibit
employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed
deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employer, but may not prohibit
employees or other persons holding a concealed deadly weapons license from carrying concealed
deadly weapons, or ammunition, or both in vehicles owned by the employee, except that the Justice
Cabinet may prohibit an employee from carrying any weapons, or ammunition, or both other than the
weapons, or ammunition, or both issued or authorized to be used Page 6 of 11 by the employee of the
cabinet, in a vehicle while transporting persons under the employee's supervision or jurisdiction.
• Carrying of a concealed weapon, or ammunition, or both in a location specified in the above bulleted
Item (In Vehicles) by a license holder shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to
denial from the premises or removal from the premises, and, if an employee of an employer,
disciplinary measures by the employer.
237.106 Right of employees and other persons to possess firearms in vehicle -- Employer liable for
denying right -- Exceptions.
(1) No person, including but not limited to an employer, who is the owner, lessee, or occupant of real
property shall prohibit any person who is legally entitled to possess a firearm from possessing a firearm, part
of a firearm, ammunition, or ammunition component in a vehicle on the property.

[johnlives4christ]

Originally Posted by conan1

I live in KY and I do not read anything in the KRS that states no carry in church. I carry mine. If a sign is posted then all you have to do is leave.

Places Off-Limits Even With A Permit/License
237.110
• Any place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law
.

hello Conan1. thanks for posting the KRS on the subject. i did learn all of this. my question is mainly the part that i left in quote. "any other place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law" i dont know what those "other " places are.

the reason i mention banks is because i want to know if it is part of that other federal law. because it isnt mentioned in the krs.

thanks for the info though, i needed to read it again

~john

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

hello Conan1. thanks for posting the KRS on the subject. i did learn all of this. my question is mainly the part that i left in quote. "any other place where the carrying of a firearm is prohibited by federal law" i dont know what those "other " places are.

the reason i mention banks is because i want to know if it is part of that other federal law. because it isnt mentioned in the krs.

thanks for the info though, i needed to read it again

~john

No carry in banks is apparantly not a federal law as some states allow concealed permit holders to carry concealed inside of a bank. NC is one of the states that prohibits it. I believe (IIRC) that LA does allow concealed carry inside of a bank.

[Trouble 45-70]

Re. Federal gun laws on carry: 1) The laws are a moving target. 2) There is no logic. 3) You got them, they want them.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by Trouble 45-70

You got them, they want them.

That's the number one point right there.

[conan1]

A bank is not a part of the Federal Government. Even the Federal Reserve is a non government entity. Federal Bldgs are prohibited like the Post Office, Federal Courts, Federal Prisons, ie any place that is Federal. I carry at my bank and church but not at any government building whether it be state, local, or Federal just to stay within the letter of the law. If the bank or church wants to post a no guns allowed sign, thats up to them.

[Licksnsticks]

John
Go to a site called www.opencarry.org. You will find a lot of info there on carrying guns in general. You may even find a link to a site for Kentucky there. From what I have read there is a federal law that states that no state or local government can make any laws that would supercede federal gun laws, specifically the second amendment. Banks are not covered in the Fed firearms laws butttt. The bank as a privately owned business can choose not to allow firearms on the premises and that is legal. They then have to post it or actually ask you to leave if you are seen carrying there. You must leave or be charged with trespass.
Hope this all helps
Blessings
Chet