Chicago sidearm ban upheld - The Firearms Forum

Marlin T · 06-03-2009, 06:25 PM

Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court (Update3)

By Andrew M. Harris
June 2 (Bloomberg) -- A Chicago ordinance banning handguns and automatic weapons within city limits was upheld by a U.S. Court of Appeals panel, which rejected a challenge by the National Rifle Association.
The unanimous three-judge panel ruled today that a U.S. Supreme Court decision last year, which recognized an individual right to bear arms under the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment, didn’t apply to states and municipalities.
“The Supreme Court has rebuffed requests to apply the second amendment to the states,” U.S. Circuit Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote, upholding lower court decisions last year to throw out suits against Chicago and its suburb of Oak Park, Illinois.
The Fairfax, Virginia-based NRA sued the municipalities in June 2008, one day after the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in District of Columbia v. Heller struck down a hand-gun ban in the U.S. capital district encompassing Washington.
“We clearly disagree with the court’s conclusion,” NRA attorney William N. Howard, a partner in Chicago’s Freeborn & Peters LLP, said in a telephone interview. “The next step will be an appeal to the Supreme Court.”
“We recognize that this may not be the end of this litigation,” Jenny Hoyle, a spokeswoman for the city of Chicago’s law department said, acknowledging the likelihood the NRA would seek further review. “We’re certainly prepared for that if this happens. We’re prepared to aggressively defend our ordinance.”
Second Amendment
Adopted in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment reads in its entirety: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.”
In Heller, the high court struck down Washington’s 32-year- old gun law, which barred most residents of the city from owning handguns and required that all legal firearms be kept unloaded and either disassembled or under trigger lock. Six residents had challenged the law, saying they wanted firearms available in their homes for self-defense.
“Heller dealt with a law enacted under the authority of the national government,” Easterbrook wrote, “while Chicago and Oak Park are subordinate bodies of a state.”
Chicago’s law took effect in 1982, Hoyle said. While it allows ownership of long guns such as rifles, they must be registered annually with the city’s police department. Concealed weapons, semi-automatic and automatic weapons are not permitted.
Some exemptions apply to members of the military and law enforcement agencies.
Following Precedent
Chicago U.S. District Judge Milton Shadur on Dec. 4 rejected the NRA’s request that he apply the Heller ruling to the Chicago and Oak Park laws, stating he was bound to follow a 1982 appeals court ruling upholding a ban by the Illinois village of Morton Grove.
That decision came from the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago, the same body that issued today’s opinion. The 15 judges of the Seventh Circuit hear appeals from the federal courts of Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin.
Easterbrook, joined by Circuit Court Judges Richard Posner and William Bauer, said they, too, were bound to follow the precedent of a higher court, the U.S. Supreme Court, in its ruling on the Second Amendment not applying to states.
An appellate court departure from high court precedent “undermines the uniformity of national law,” Easterbrook wrote.
The judges rendered their ruling one week after hearing arguments.
Applicable Law
A San Francisco-based federal appeals court, with jurisdiction over cases from California, Oregon, Washington and six other Western U.S. states, in April ruled the Second Amendment can be read as applicable to states and counties.
Still, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals’ decision in Nordyke v. King allowed to stand an Alameda County, California regulation that outlaws gun possession on county property.
Howard, the NRA’s lawyer, cited the Nordyke ruling as one of the reasons for his client’s challenge to the Chicago court outcome.
“This thing is headed for the Supreme Court,” University of Chicago Constitutional Law Professor Richard Epstein said in a phone interview.
“This is a question where you cannot run a split administration and there’s no way the circuits can resolve this amongst themselves,” he said.
The 7th Circuit case is National Rifle Association of America v. City of Chicago, 08-4241, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit (Chicago). The 9th Circuit case is Nordyke v. King, 07-15763, in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (San Francisco).
To contact the reporter on this story: Andrew M. Harris at the federal court in Chicago at aharris16@bloomberg.net.
Last Updated: June 2, 2009 17:16 EDT
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide

dge479 · 06-03-2009, 06:30 PM

I am dissapointed, but I cant say this is any surprise at all.

bcj1755 · 06-03-2009, 06:59 PM

And people wonder why Chicago has such a high crime rate

Oh wait, according to liberal logic, Chicago would have a low crime rate because they have such tight gun laws. That's the same logic that says Washington DC's murder rate of 69 per 100,000 was low because of the gun ban, but a city that allows gun ownership and has a murder rate of 8 per 100,000 is too high

OBrien · 06-03-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marlin T

Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court (Update3)

r the U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment, didn’t apply to states and municipalities. [/URL]

Does this mean the rest of the bill of rights does not apply to states and municipalities? Can New York decide tomorrow that they don't need search warrants or Miami can jail you for being a certain religion? If the second amendment does not apply to states and municipalities do any of the others?

Hardballer · 06-03-2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBrien

Does this mean the rest of the bill of rights does not apply to states and municipalities? Can New York decide tomorrow that they don't need search warrants or Miami can jail you for being a certain religion? If the second amendment does not apply to states and municipalities do any of the others?

Now that is a 640,000 (corrected for inflation) question. This could be interesting.

alhefner · 06-04-2009, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OBrien

Does this mean the rest of the bill of rights does not apply to states and municipalities? Can New York decide tomorrow that they don't need search warrants or Miami can jail you for being a certain religion? If the second amendment does not apply to states and municipalities do any of the others?

If the Supreme court does decide that the Second Amendment does NOT apply to states and municipalities, then YES none of the bill of rights apply to any state or municipality and basic civil rights are up for abuse at every level other than the federal level.

BTW, that stance is the one that Sotomayor has taken on the second amendment.

Had to write a new article for my own site because of this. The U.S. Court of Appeals has effectively stated that the Bill of Rights ONLY applies to federal law.

45nut · 06-04-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alhefner

Had to write a new article for my own site because of this. The U.S. Court of Appeals has effectively stated that the Bill of Rights ONLY applies to federal law.

Holy Crap, you mean those idgits on the US Court of Appeals don't believe in individual rights, like Karl Marx, Woodrow Wilson, Hitler, Stalin, FDR & Mussolini??

mrkirker · 06-04-2009, 08:21 AM

Yeah, it would seem that the Bill of Rights is really a piece of "Cafeteria Legislation", from which each state or municipality can ‘select’ which aspects to apply to their particular situation.
How Konvenient!

RunningOnMT · 06-04-2009, 08:25 AM

If the second amendment does not apply to states and municipalities then none of the other bill of rights do. If this rulling is upheld it is an act of war against the people of the United States. The bill of rights has nothing to do with state and local government other than to limit their powers. It is a guarantee of rights of ALL citizens of the United States.

This is an example of the idiocy of those in positions of power. As time goes on I am more and more convinced that today our institutions of higher learning are teaching a separate reality where our rules of logic don't apply.

Of course the second amendment applies to people living within states and municipalities. Everyone lives in one state or another. Who would the second amendment be for then if not those citizens residing in states or municipalities?

This stupidity and ignorance infuriates me.

bcj1755 · 06-04-2009, 08:40 AM

The closet-commies are setting up a legla framework so they can illegally take away our rights, but do it under a thin cloak of legality. Typical liberal logic

oscarmayer · 06-04-2009, 08:49 AM

chicago has the best judges money can buy. i'm sure mr piece of crap daley saw to it this was crushed in court

carver · 06-04-2009, 10:43 AM

The opening line of the Constitution: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I suppose that Chicago does not consider itself part of the Union?

bcj1755 · 06-04-2009, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carver

The opening line of the Constitution: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I suppose that Chicago does not consider itself part of the Union?

Well, if they don't, I say they can go. In fact, I wish they would go. Along with the liberal whackamoles that run New York, California, and Washington DC. Send them all someplace else. Let the few conservatives in those places have a chance at runnign things there.

swiftman · 06-04-2009, 08:01 PM

Chicago is Obama's model for the rest of the United States.

tireman7.62x54r · 06-05-2009, 11:17 PM

Up coming gun rally in Daley's Kingdom.

The Illinois State Rifle Association and IllinoisCarry.com are holding a Second Amendment Freedom Rally 2009 on June 26th. 11am to 1pm at the James R. Thompson Center, 100 W. Randolph St., Chicago, IL

The event will probably be ignored by the Chicago media, just like they ignored the March 11 2009 rally at the state capital in Springfield. Where 5000 gun owners marched to the capital to lobby their legislators. The rally wasn't reported by the Chicago media.

alhefner · 06-06-2009, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tireman7.62x54r

Up coming gun rally in Daley's Kingdom.

The Illinois State Rifle Association and IllinoisCarry.com are holding a Second Amendment Freedom Rally 2009 on June 26th. 11am to 1pm at the James R. Thompson Center, 100 W. Randolph St., Chicago, IL

The event will probably be ignored by the Chicago media, just like they ignored the March 11 2009 rally at the state capital in Springfield. Where 5000 gun owners marched to the capital to lobby their legislators. The rally wasn't reported by the Chicago media.

They can't afford to cover anything that would show support for a subject they hate.

06-03-2009, 06:25 PM	#1
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Chicago sidearm ban upheld Chicago Law Banning Handguns in City Upheld by Court (Update3) By Andrew M. Harris June 2 (Bloomberg) -- A Chicago ordinance banning handguns and automatic weapons within city limits was upheld by a U.S. Court of Appeals panel, which rejected a challenge by the National Rifle Association. The unanimous three-judge panel ruled today that a U.S. Supreme Court decision last year, which recognized an individual right to bear arms under the *U.S. Constitution’s Second Amendment, didn’t apply to states and municipalities.* “The Supreme Court has rebuffed requests to apply the second amendment to the states,” U.S. Circuit Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote, upholding lower court decisions last year to throw out suits against Chicago and its suburb of Oak Park, Illinois. The Fairfax, Virginia-based NRA sued the municipalities in June 2008, one day after the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in District of Columbia v. Heller struck down a hand-gun ban in the U.S. capital district encompassing Washington. “We clearly disagree with the court’s conclusion,” NRA attorney William N. Howard, a partner in Chicago’s Freeborn & Peters LLP, said in a telephone interview. “The next step will be an appeal to the Supreme Court.” “We recognize that this may not be the end of this litigation,” Jenny Hoyle, a spokeswoman for the city of Chicago’s law department said, acknowledging the likelihood the NRA would seek further review. “We’re certainly prepared for that if this happens. We’re prepared to aggressively defend our ordinance.” Second Amendment Adopted in 1791 as part of the Bill of Rights, the Second Amendment reads in its entirety: “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” In Heller, the high court struck down Washington’s 32-year- old gun law, which barred most residents of the city from owning handguns and required that all legal firearms be kept unloaded and either disassembled or under trigger lock. Six residents had challenged the law, saying they wanted firearms available in their homes for self-defense. “Heller dealt with a law enacted under the authority of the national government,” Easterbrook wrote, “while Chicago and Oak Park are subordinate bodies of a state.” Chicago’s law took effect in 1982, Hoyle said. While it allows ownership of long guns such as rifles, they must be registered annually with the city’s police department. Concealed weapons, semi-automatic and automatic weapons are not permitted. Some exemptions apply to members of the military and law enforcement agencies. Following Precedent Chicago U.S. District Judge Milton Shadur on Dec. 4 rejected the NRA’s request that he apply the Heller ruling to the Chicago and Oak Park laws, stating he was bound to follow a 1982 appeals court ruling upholding a ban by the Illinois village of Morton Grove. That decision came from the U.S. Court of Appeals in Chicago, the same body that issued today’s opinion. The 15 judges of the Seventh Circuit hear appeals from the federal courts of Illinois, Indiana and Wisconsin. Easterbrook, joined by Circuit Court Judges Richard Posner and William Bauer, said they, too, were bound to follow the precedent of a higher court, the U.S. Supreme Court, in its ruling on the Second Amendment not applying to states. An appellate court departure from high court precedent “undermines the uniformity of national law,” Easterbrook wrote. The judges rendered their ruling one week after hearing arguments. Applicable Law A San Francisco-based federal appeals court, with jurisdiction over cases from California, Oregon, Washington and six other Western U.S. states, in April ruled the Second Amendment can be read as applicable to states and counties. Still, the U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals’ decision in Nordyke v. King allowed to stand an Alameda County, California regulation that outlaws gun possession on county property. Howard, the NRA’s lawyer, cited the Nordyke ruling as one of the reasons for his client’s challenge to the Chicago court outcome. “This thing is headed for the Supreme Court,” University of Chicago Constitutional Law Professor Richard Epstein said in a phone interview. “This is a question where you cannot run a split administration and there’s no way the circuits can resolve this amongst themselves,” he said. The 7th Circuit case is National Rifle Association of America v. City of Chicago, 08-4241, U.S. Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit (Chicago). The 9th Circuit case is Nordyke v. King, 07-15763, in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (San Francisco). To contact the reporter on this story: Andrew M. Harris at the federal court in Chicago at aharris16@bloomberg.net. Last Updated: June 2, 2009 17:16 EDT http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...efer=worldwide __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<< -->

06-03-2009, 06:30 PM	#2
dge479 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Haskell NJ Posts: 618	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld I am dissapointed, but I cant say this is any surprise at all. __________________ Proud GOA and NRA member. Old Mopars and Guns, About as good as it gets. Guns Dont Kill, Socialized Healthcare does

06-03-2009, 06:59 PM	#3
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld And people wonder why Chicago has such a high crime rate Oh wait, according to liberal logic, Chicago would have a low crime rate because they have such tight gun laws. That's the same logic that says Washington DC's murder rate of 69 per 100,000 was low because of the gun ban, but a city that allows gun ownership and has a murder rate of 8 per 100,000 is too high __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

06-04-2009, 08:21 AM	#8
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld Yeah, it would seem that the Bill of Rights is really a piece of "Cafeteria Legislation", from which each state or municipality can ‘select’ which aspects to apply to their particular situation. How Konvenient! __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

06-04-2009, 08:25 AM	#9
RunningOnMT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Akron, Ohio Contributor Posts: 4,720	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld If the second amendment does not apply to states and municipalities then none of the other bill of rights do. If this rulling is upheld it is an act of war against the people of the United States. The bill of rights has nothing to do with state and local government other than to limit their powers. It is a guarantee of rights of ALL citizens of the United States. This is an example of the idiocy of those in positions of power. As time goes on I am more and more convinced that today our institutions of higher learning are teaching a separate reality where our rules of logic don't apply. Of course the second amendment applies to people living within states and municipalities. Everyone lives in one state or another. Who would the second amendment be for then if not those citizens residing in states or municipalities? This stupidity and ignorance infuriates me.

06-04-2009, 08:40 AM	#10
bcj1755 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A wretched hive of scum and villiany Posts: 4,357	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld The closet-commies are setting up a legla framework so they can illegally take away our rights, but do it under a thin cloak of legality. Typical liberal logic __________________ History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace, and revolution continue on forever. Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges - Cicero If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. - Samuel Adams

06-04-2009, 08:49 AM	#11
oscarmayer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Contributor Posts: 2,387	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld chicago has the best judges money can buy. i'm sure mr piece of crap daley saw to it this was crushed in court

06-04-2009, 10:43 AM	#12
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,236	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld The opening line of the Constitution: We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. I suppose that Chicago does not consider itself part of the Union? __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

06-04-2009, 08:01 PM	#14
swiftman V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: East Central Ill Posts: 220	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld Chicago is Obama's model for the rest of the United States.

06-05-2009, 11:17 PM	#15
tireman7.62x54r V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 149	Re: Chicago sidearm ban upheld Up coming gun rally in Daley's Kingdom. The Illinois State Rifle Association and IllinoisCarry.com are holding a Second Amendment Freedom Rally 2009 on June 26th. 11am to 1pm at the James R. Thompson Center, 100 W. Randolph St., Chicago, IL The event will probably be ignored by the Chicago media, just like they ignored the March 11 2009 rally at the state capital in Springfield. Where 5000 gun owners marched to the capital to lobby their legislators. The rally wasn't reported by the Chicago media.