I should know this by now, but....

Crpdeth · 12-10-2003, 12:32 PM

I'm looking at a homemade AR in .223...Preban Olympic reciever, collapsable stock, with a flash suppressor and I'm wondering if this dude is even legal...I was thinking it could only have one "evil" either the threaded barrell or the stock, but not both untill further precedings in 2004 right?
Additionally, it has a small (what looks like a bayo lug) under the barrell, my Bushy dosen't have such a "lug" so I dont know what it is, maybe just a place for a tac flashlight?

Also, the asking price on this 'ol girl is 800 US Dollars, comes with a couple Hicap's, ammo, and a cheap looking scope with a star on the top of it ...

Thoughts, Comments?

Thanks guys.

~Crpdeth

gpostal · 12-10-2003, 02:52 PM

if it is a pre-ban you are fine , the ban was not retroactive

Smokin Guns · 12-10-2003, 07:14 PM

I agree with gp! If that lower is legit...the upper can be anything y'all want...bayo lug w/ flash suppressor...

'course i reckon it depends on what year that lower was produced as a pre-ban? Where the heck is LTS, that feller knows!...

LIKTOSHOOT · 12-11-2003, 06:47 AM

Well, interesting. This comes up more than you think---the question, that is. You refer to it as "homemade" who made it and when....was it ever a complete rifle?

LTS

stash247 · 12-12-2003, 08:45 PM

The point of law says the "rifle", not the lower alone, had to be built before the cutoff. Get a picture of it with a date on the photo, or a statement from the seller, who, hopefully, is a judge or a preacher.
ATF says a reciever is the "gun", then crawfishes frequently where assault rifle is the subject-- be REAL careful!
Terry

Crpdeth · 12-14-2003, 04:10 PM

Sorry guys, I was off on vacation for a few days there...

LTS, I dont have alot of facts unfortunatly...The guy who has the rifle, wasn't the original builder, I dont have evidence of when the piece was complete, nor do I have the education to discern whether the reciever is truly even pre-ban or not.
By "homemade"... I was meaning that the firearm was not factory built.

Thank you LTS, and the rest of yaz as well...I think I'm probabally gonna pass on this weapon, but I sure wouldn't mind a little education in this area, concerning, what to look for in identifying pre-ban recievers, if anyone had some pointers to give.

~Crp

LIKTOSHOOT · 12-14-2003, 05:47 PM

Crp, the serial number is the best way.....but not always the right way. Some manufactures sold lowers (incomplete rifles) and dealers sold them retail. If a lower was logged into a dealers A&D book and was there after the ban---then sold, it cannot be considered a preban-ever! If it was sold prior to the ban, then who can prove it was never built into a complete rifle prior to the ban.......my guess is no one. Colts and Bushmasters are the easiest to trace back, followed by Armalite and several others. Some can be recognized by color, as some early companies had gray receivers. Just takes a little time to track them down, but not hard to do. Also remember.....there were two (2) bans, first in 1989 for imports.....then the second for domestic`s. I would probably take a hard look at the one you are looking at, and check the serial number via the internet......could be a great buy if correct and preban.

LTS

12-10-2003, 12:32 PM	#1
Crpdeth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Location: Location Contributor Posts: 8,247	I should know this by now, but.... I'm looking at a homemade AR in .223...Preban Olympic reciever, collapsable stock, with a flash suppressor and I'm wondering if this dude is even legal...I was thinking it could only have one "evil" either the threaded barrell or the stock, but not both untill further precedings in 2004 right? Additionally, it has a small (what looks like a bayo lug) under the barrell, my Bushy dosen't have such a "lug" so I dont know what it is, maybe just a place for a tac flashlight? Also, the asking price on this 'ol girl is 800 US Dollars, comes with a couple Hicap's, ammo, and a cheap looking scope with a star on the top of it ... Thoughts, Comments? Thanks guys. ~Crpdeth __________________ Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. ~Eric Hoffer -->

12-10-2003, 07:14 PM	#3
Smokin Guns Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: "Gun Culture Members Clubhouse"... Posts: 4,463	I agree with gp! If that lower is legit...the upper can be anything y'all want...bayo lug w/ flash suppressor... 'course i reckon it depends on what year that lower was produced as a pre-ban? Where the heck is LTS, that feller knows!... __________________ Last edited by Smokin Guns; 12-10-2003 at 07:15 PM..

12-12-2003, 08:45 PM	#5
stash247 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Central Texas Posts: 2,815	The point of law says the "rifle", not the lower alone, had to be built before the cutoff. Get a picture of it with a date on the photo, or a statement from the seller, who, hopefully, is a judge or a preacher. ATF says a reciever is the "gun", then crawfishes frequently where assault rifle is the subject-- be REAL careful! Terry __________________ Don't start no s**t and there won't be none, Terry

12-14-2003, 04:10 PM	#6
Crpdeth Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Location: Location Contributor Posts: 8,247	Sorry guys, I was off on vacation for a few days there... LTS, I dont have alot of facts unfortunatly...The guy who has the rifle, wasn't the original builder, I dont have evidence of when the piece was complete, nor do I have the education to discern whether the reciever is truly even pre-ban or not. By "homemade"... I was meaning that the firearm was not factory built. Thank you LTS, and the rest of yaz as well...I think I'm probabally gonna pass on this weapon, but I sure wouldn't mind a little education in this area, concerning, what to look for in identifying pre-ban recievers, if anyone had some pointers to give. ~Crp __________________ Our greatest pretenses are built up not to hide the evil and the ugly in us, but our emptiness. The hardest thing to hide is something that is not there. ~Eric Hoffer

12-10-2003, 02:52 PM	#2
gpostal Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 4,552	if it is a pre-ban you are fine , the ban was not retroactive

12-11-2003, 06:47 AM	#4
LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,367	Well, interesting. This comes up more than you think---the question, that is. You refer to it as "homemade" who made it and when....was it ever a complete rifle? LTS

12-14-2003, 05:47 PM	#7
LIKTOSHOOT Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 9,367	Crp, the serial number is the best way.....but not always the right way. Some manufactures sold lowers (incomplete rifles) and dealers sold them retail. If a lower was logged into a dealers A&D book and was there after the ban---then sold, it cannot be considered a preban-ever! If it was sold prior to the ban, then who can prove it was never built into a complete rifle prior to the ban.......my guess is no one. Colts and Bushmasters are the easiest to trace back, followed by Armalite and several others. Some can be recognized by color, as some early companies had gray receivers. Just takes a little time to track them down, but not hard to do. Also remember.....there were two (2) bans, first in 1989 for imports.....then the second for domestic`s. I would probably take a hard look at the one you are looking at, and check the serial number via the internet......could be a great buy if correct and preban. LTS