Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... - The Firearms Forum

JUNKKING · 06-17-2009, 03:54 PM

I'm still looking for a 1911 I think. Some just don't feel good to me is this normal? Yesterday I stopped at a place close to me and they had a 1911 that felt really good. I liked the sights but the gun seemed to be made of parts by someone. It is used looks like very little use though. The gun was made of these external parts I could identify. Remington Rand Slide, Essex frame, Wilson Bolt.

Any ideas why this had so many parts? I have never heard of Essex... Good or Bad? Any info. will be taken to heart as I have been on this quest for a few weeks now. I had some help from a few great people here I have talked with in PM. Thanks, JUNK

USMC-03 · 06-17-2009, 04:10 PM

My 1911 is set up for bullseye competition and has an Essex frame with Colt slide that sports what I believe are Brazillian military markings. Essex frames were wartime manufacture and mine is of very good quality. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I could.

islenos · 06-17-2009, 04:14 PM

A lot of GI .45 parts kits, less receiver, were sold years ago. Many people, myself included bought Essex Frames and built them with these GI parts.

glocknut · 06-17-2009, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUNKKING

I'm still looking for a 1911 I think. Some just don't feel good to me is this normal?

Do you mean that it doesn't feel good in your hand or the balance is wrong?
Or are you refering to something else?

mike
gn

JUNKKING · 06-17-2009, 06:47 PM

Many things like in your post glocknut. Some seem front heavy grip too wide, grip is too thin, balance sights, a number of things possibly I could get used to, But I think a gun should be like buying a shoe, If it doesn't feel good from the start it will never feel good. Or maybe it just gives me something to think about to make it wrong, Could be this is all in my head. JUNK

glocknut · 06-17-2009, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JUNKKING

Many things like in your post glocknut. Some seem front heavy grip too wide, grip is too thin, balance sights, a number of things possibly I could get used to, But I think a gun should be like buying a shoe, If it doesn't feel good from the start it will never feel good. Or maybe it just gives me something to think about to make it wrong, Could be this is all in my head. JUNK

I don't think its just in your head. I think these 1911s and other guns are kinda like what you describe...shoes. Some feel right and some don't. I don't believe you should ever buy a gun thinking that you can put up with something about it that you dislike. If it don't feel right or you don't shoot well with it...its not a good match.
Its like a bowling ball. There are hundreds of balls that allmost work and are the right size but a custom measured and drilled bowling ball is allways best. Guns are no different in my opinion.

mike
gn

Shooter45 · 06-21-2009, 03:49 PM

When Essex started making frames quality control was lacking. Holes punched in the wrong place,wrong size, not matching,etc. To date these were corrected and Essex builds a decent frame for the money. In years past, a gunsmith would buy the frame, correct the pin alignment and any other frame flaws and assemble a decent 1911 using a variety of parts.

Are the frames OK for the amature pistolsmith to use to assemble a 1911 ??

Yes.

To address the different feel of the 1911:

This can be accomplished by changing several items.
Short,long or extra long trigger.
Flat or arched mainspring housing.
Thick or thin grips including rubber wrap around grips.

The 1911 can be made to fit anyone from someone with small hands to someone with an island sized paw. And folks wonder why we like to tinker with our favorite firearms.

glocknut · 06-21-2009, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooter45

The 1911 can be made to fit anyone from someone with small hands to someone with an island sized paw. And folks wonder why we like to tinker with our favorite firearms.

Tinkering with them to get them to "feel" right is one thing... tinkering with them to get them to work properly is another. Not all 1911s are created equal...even within the same brand. An occasional "lunker" makes it off the assembly line. Actually it happens with every brands of guns...

mike
gn

Shooter45 · 06-24-2009, 05:09 PM

The 1911 was designed for round nose ammo so when folks started shooting hollow point ammo, the barrel had to be throated and the feed ramp polished. Along came the 1911A-1, same thing until sometime in the 1980's. ALMOST all new 1911's come with the barrel throated.

Remember, the military 1911's were used for a few decades and lost a lot of accuracy But, they still worked. Bury them in the mud, dig um out and shootem, still worked due to loose tolerances. Along came the Nat'l Match guns and they were all about accuracy and everyone wanted their 1911's to shoot like that. So, the tightning started and specs were tighter and those guns lost some reliability due to being set up to shoot semi wadcutter ammo. Then most manufactures started using CNC machines and building tight production 1911's with throated barrels and polished feed ramps. These pistols had to be reliable and most are but as you stated, a few will get past quality control. These can be corrected by a knowledgable owner most of the time. Then there are the used 1911's that have been "Tweeked" ( read ruined ) by the home gunsmith and traded in. Some can be repaired with replacement parts be it frame or slide. Some can't. I have seen frames ruined by someone trying to polish a feed ramp with a Dremel tool and cut thru the frontstrap. They used wraparound grips to cover the problem when making the trade. I have seen barrels ruined by polishing out the "jump" between the barrel and feed ramp. Anyone who owns a 1911 shouldn't own a Dremal tool. I won't mention trigger jobs although I think they are necessary on a match pistol. ( I hate an 8 lb " lawyer" trigger).

So, do the new 1911's NEED to be "tweeked" for reliability ? Not really unless it's an inexpensive pistol and I'd look closely before touching it. As I have stated before use good mags and I'd recommend Wilson Combat mags for carry and Metalform for Semi Wadcutter target work. If you want to tweek a 1911 and you are a novice, stick to changing grips.

You will save money and won't have any problems.

There are a lot of good pistolsmiths around and if your pistol needs some work and you arent sure what to do, use them.

But then again, we do like to work on our 1911's.

johnlives4christ · 06-24-2009, 06:12 PM

well, sometimes you got to mess up your gun before you can learn. i've never messed one up yet... but i was able to fix a 1911 once that had been, the gap between the barrel and the feed ramp was gone... i very very slightly changed the angle on the barrel feed ramp but was careful not to make it go deeper into the chamber. it worked fine after that. guess i was blessed

06-17-2009, 03:54 PM	#1
JUNKKING Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Just East of Pittsburgh PA Contributor Posts: 1,817	Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... I'm still looking for a 1911 I think. Some just don't feel good to me is this normal? Yesterday I stopped at a place close to me and they had a 1911 that felt really good. I liked the sights but the gun seemed to be made of parts by someone. It is used looks like very little use though. The gun was made of these external parts I could identify. Remington Rand Slide, Essex frame, Wilson Bolt. Any ideas why this had so many parts? I have never heard of Essex... Good or Bad? Any info. will be taken to heart as I have been on this quest for a few weeks now. I had some help from a few great people here I have talked with in PM. Thanks, JUNK __________________ Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again! -->

06-17-2009, 04:10 PM	#2
USMC-03 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Peoples Republic of the Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,825	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... My 1911 is set up for bullseye competition and has an Essex frame with Colt slide that sports what I believe are Brazillian military markings. Essex frames were wartime manufacture and mine is of very good quality. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if I could. __________________ Let not the rifles of good and free men be reforged into plowshares, but may they rest in a place of honor; ready, well oiled and God willing unused. For if the price of peace becomes licking the boots of tyrants, then "To Arms!" I say, and may the fortunes of war smile upon patriots. - Fortes Fortuna Javat -

06-17-2009, 04:14 PM	#3
islenos Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: West Texas Posts: 1,244	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... A lot of GI .45 parts kits, less receiver, were sold years ago. Many people, myself included bought Essex Frames and built them with these GI parts. __________________

06-17-2009, 06:47 PM	#5
JUNKKING Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Just East of Pittsburgh PA Contributor Posts: 1,817	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... Many things like in your post glocknut. Some seem front heavy grip too wide, grip is too thin, balance sights, a number of things possibly I could get used to, But I think a gun should be like buying a shoe, If it doesn't feel good from the start it will never feel good. Or maybe it just gives me something to think about to make it wrong, Could be this is all in my head. JUNK __________________ Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and again!

06-21-2009, 03:49 PM	#7
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,790	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... When Essex started making frames quality control was lacking. Holes punched in the wrong place,wrong size, not matching,etc. To date these were corrected and Essex builds a decent frame for the money. In years past, a gunsmith would buy the frame, correct the pin alignment and any other frame flaws and assemble a decent 1911 using a variety of parts. Are the frames OK for the amature pistolsmith to use to assemble a 1911 ?? Yes. To address the different feel of the 1911: This can be accomplished by changing several items. Short,long or extra long trigger. Flat or arched mainspring housing. Thick or thin grips including rubber wrap around grips. The 1911 can be made to fit anyone from someone with small hands to someone with an island sized paw. And folks wonder why we like to tinker with our favorite firearms.

06-24-2009, 05:09 PM	#9
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,790	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... The 1911 was designed for round nose ammo so when folks started shooting hollow point ammo, the barrel had to be throated and the feed ramp polished. Along came the 1911A-1, same thing until sometime in the 1980's. ALMOST all new 1911's come with the barrel throated. Remember, the military 1911's were used for a few decades and lost a lot of accuracy But, they still worked. Bury them in the mud, dig um out and shootem, still worked due to loose tolerances. Along came the Nat'l Match guns and they were all about accuracy and everyone wanted their 1911's to shoot like that. So, the tightning started and specs were tighter and those guns lost some reliability due to being set up to shoot semi wadcutter ammo. Then most manufactures started using CNC machines and building tight production 1911's with throated barrels and polished feed ramps. These pistols had to be reliable and most are but as you stated, a few will get past quality control. These can be corrected by a knowledgable owner most of the time. Then there are the used 1911's that have been "Tweeked" ( read ruined ) by the home gunsmith and traded in. Some can be repaired with replacement parts be it frame or slide. Some can't. I have seen frames ruined by someone trying to polish a feed ramp with a Dremel tool and cut thru the frontstrap. They used wraparound grips to cover the problem when making the trade. I have seen barrels ruined by polishing out the "jump" between the barrel and feed ramp. Anyone who owns a 1911 shouldn't own a Dremal tool. I won't mention trigger jobs although I think they are necessary on a match pistol. ( I hate an 8 lb " lawyer" trigger). So, do the new 1911's NEED to be "tweeked" for reliability ? Not really unless it's an inexpensive pistol and I'd look closely before touching it. As I have stated before use good mags and I'd recommend Wilson Combat mags for carry and Metalform for Semi Wadcutter target work. If you want to tweek a 1911 and you are a novice, stick to changing grips. You will save money and won't have any problems. There are a lot of good pistolsmiths around and if your pistol needs some work and you arent sure what to do, use them. But then again, we do like to work on our 1911's.

06-24-2009, 06:12 PM	#10
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Remington Rand Slide Essex frame... well, sometimes you got to mess up your gun before you can learn. i've never messed one up yet... but i was able to fix a 1911 once that had been, the gap between the barrel and the feed ramp was gone... i very very slightly changed the angle on the barrel feed ramp but was careful not to make it go deeper into the chamber. it worked fine after that. guess i was blessed