Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

[islenos]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/6505651.html

Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time
By DANE SCHILLER Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
June 30, 2009, 9:36PM


In front of a run-down shack in north Houston, federal agents step from a government sedan into 102-degree heat and face a critical question: How can the woman living here buy four high-end handguns in one day?

The house is worth $35,000. A screen dangles by a wall-unit air conditioner. Porch swing slats are smashed, the smattering of grass is flattened by cars and burned yellow by sun.

“I’ll do the talking on this one,” agent Tim Sloan, of South Carolina, told partner Brian Tumiel, of New York.

Success on the front lines of a government blitz on gunrunners supplying Mexican drug cartels with Houston weaponry hinges on logging heavy miles and knocking on countless doors. Dozens of agents from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives — sent here from around the country — are needed to follow what ATF acting director Kenneth Melson described as a “massive number of investigative leads.”

All told, Mexican officials in 2008 asked federal agents to trace the origins of more than 7,500 firearms recovered at crime scenes in Mexico. Most of them were traced back to Texas, California and Arizona.

Among other things, the agents are combing neighborhoods and asking people about suspicious purchases as well as seeking explanations as to how their guns ended up used in murders, kidnappings and other crimes in Mexico.

“Ever turning up the heat on cartels, our law enforcement and military partners in the government of Mexico have been working more closely with the ATF by sharing information and intelligence,” Melson said Tuesday during a firearms-trafficking summit in New Mexico.
Firearms dealers visited

The ATF recently dispatched 100 veteran agents to its Houston division, which reaches to the border.

The mission is especially challenging because, officials say, that while Houston is the number one point of origin for weapons traced back to the United States from Mexico, the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.

Agents instead review firearms dealers’ records in person.

People who are legally in the United States and have clean criminal records, but are facing economic problems are often recruited by traffickers to buy weapons on their behalf in order to shield themselves from scrutiny.

Knocks at the door of the shack that looked to be the definition of hard times went unanswered.

“I am out of here,” Sloan said a few moments later, as a pit bull lazily sauntered from the back yard. “I don’t like pit bulls walking up behind me.”
Best information source

On second thought, Sloan switched to Spanish and interviewed a neighbor.

The neighbor said the woman left a month ago after a fight with her husband or boyfriend, who still lived there with what she called “other degenerates.”

“An angry ex-girlfriend or wife is the best person in the world, the greatest source of information,” Sloan said.

The night before, the duo were in a stakeout where they watched a weapons sale.

They also combined efforts with the Drug Enforcement Administration for an aircraft to stealthily follow traffickers to the border.

On this day, agents weren’t wearing raid jackets or combat boots and weren’t armed with warrants.

Guns were hidden under civilian shirts.

Another tip took agents on a 30-minute drive from the shack to a sprawling home with a pool in the back and an American flag out front.

It turned out two handguns, of a type drug gangsters prefer, were bought by a pastor for target practice.

Some stories, they say, are hard to believe.

The lamest so far came from a police officer: He said he bought a few military-style rifles, left them in his car and — on the same night — forgot to lock a door. He couldn’t explain why he didn’t file a police report or why he visited Mexico the day after the alleged theft.

dane.schiller@chron.com

[45nut]

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=63191

Trouble 45-70 beat you to it. But, yeah this is how confiscation starts. Give the liberals a crisis and they will beat the hell out of us with it. Maybe they will move north up to the burbs and I can donate to the cause.

[islenos]

yea, that's the problem with Headlines, you scan though a list and don't see a match.....oh well.

But this seems like a practice run to me....

[USMC-03]

If a gun is actually used in a crime, traced back to a purchaser and LEO's knock on the door to ask a few questions, all well and good. I've had the police at my door to ask about a rifle I once bought from a legitamate gun shop but still turned out to be stolen; ok, fine, it was all straightened out and no problem. However, investigating "suspicious" firearms purchases by law abiding citizens is a violation of civil liberties. I'm sure the ACLU will file suit to stop this. Oh, wait...

[45nut]

Originally Posted by islenos

But this seems like a practice run to me....

You're correct Sir. That's exactly what it is.

[islenos]

To me the most bothersome part is this

.....the government can’t compile databases on gun owners under federal law.

Agents instead review firearms dealers’ records in person.

[45nut]

islenos,

They've always had that available. To me this current situation gives them too much advantage. The gun owner needs to know their rights and must be willing to politely remind them of their 4th Amendment rights.

I hope this doesn't turn into a Nawlins gun confiscation fiasco.

[Oldeyes]

Unfortunately, the firearms disposition "bound book" (or equivalent electronic file) in the physical possession of a licensed FFL holder is effectively the property of the government. BATFE agents can stop by and snoop through the bound book anytime that they want to and there are also regularly scheduled bound book (rule & regulation) compliance audits. Most of the agents did not do that 'just on whim type of browsing' due to the fact that it does not take a lot of that type of activity before the FFL holder gets PO'd. Once a FFL holder closes up the business, the bound book or printout from the database goes to a physical BATFE archive somewhere. The BATFE folks have to dig into the archived records out from time to time to do firearms traces.

[islenos]

I guess what I should have said is:

Once an investigation is opened up and the ATF records the disposition of firearms for any given individual, then that information doesn't go away. The local ATF office will have that individual on their radar till the end of time.

If the ATF deem that an entire region should fall into their investigation then they would start a file on every man, woman and child.

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by Oldeyes

Unfortunately, the firearms disposition "bound book" (or equivalent electronic file) in the physical possession of a licensed FFL holder is effectively the property of the government. BATFE agents can stop by and snoop through the bound book anytime that they want to and there are also regularly scheduled bound book (rule & regulation) compliance audits. Most of the agents did not do that 'just on whim type of browsing' due to the fact that it does not take a lot of that type of activity before the FFL holder gets PO'd. Once a FFL holder closes up the business, the bound book or printout from the database goes to a physical BATFE archive somewhere. The BATFE folks have to dig into the archived records out from time to time to do firearms traces.

Originally Posted by islenos

I guess what I should have said is:

Once an investigation is opened up and the ATF records the disposition of firearms for any given individual, then that information doesn't go away. The local ATF office will have that individual on their radar till the end of time.

If the ATF deem that an entire region should fall into their investigation then they would start a file on every man, woman and child.

Bingo! I have ALWAYS said that the 4473 is nothing but a thinly veiled form of backdoor gun registration

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by Oldeyes

Unfortunately, the firearms disposition "bound book" (or equivalent electronic file) in the physical possession of a licensed FFL holder is effectively the property of the government. BATFE agents can stop by and snoop through the bound book anytime that they want to and there are also regularly scheduled bound book (rule & regulation) compliance audits. Most of the agents did not do that 'just on whim type of browsing' due to the fact that it does not take a lot of that type of activity before the FFL holder gets PO'd. Once a FFL holder closes up the business, the bound book or printout from the database goes to a physical BATFE archive somewhere. The BATFE folks have to dig into the archived records out from time to time to do firearms traces.

When I closed shop i had to turn in all 4473's with a copy of my bound book. The original book i still have, I purchased it, it is property of the dealer. The 4473's on the other hand are not. The dealer does not need the 4473 unless there is a law suit. It is stored at the dealers store simply because i think ATF doesn't want to store all that paper. Eventually all 4473's will end up at ATF. So what? If you don't have nothing to hide it's not a problem. If they use it to confiscate a legal man's gun, then it's a problem. For every gun out there someone, somewhere, somehow knows you bought it.

Maybe things have changed and now if you terminate a business you must turn in your bound book, but i sure would keep a copy of it. In fact I think every gun owner should do the same with their personal guns. List them coming in to your possession on said day and from whom, if you ever sell it list that too. It could save you a headach one day.

Back to the thread: I sure do hope this curbs all the crime in Mexico.

[Hardballer]

This is them (our disassociated government) making a trial run. How far can they go, how far can they push. Also, this is them making a case for not being able to do their jobs if guns aren't registered.

Lie about the guns in Mexico, lie about the illegals over the boarder, lie about stemming the flow over the border.

Lie often enough and it takes on a life of it's own. I watched a "B" movie the other night that was eerily familiar. The Long Kiss Goodnight. Create a crisis as a fund raiser for all the acronyms.

Or use it as a way to justify taking our guns. Either way, the sheeple will always vote on the side of safety and McDonald's. Comfort before Liberty.

[WillBrayJr]

This proves my point that LE put their nose where it doesn't belong.

[Bruce FLinch]

When the story first broke,months ago, all the guns in Mexican crimes came from the US. Then it was reported 28% of the guns came from the US with the rest coming from China & other countries. Now all 2800 guns they got last year, came from the US?

Once again, the media is sipping Kool-Aid. & the Govt. is pouring.