Iver Johnson Murder gun

[Twaits]

Here's an Iver Johnson that I bought a while ago that was supposedly used in a "murder and robbery spree" in upper New York state in the late 20s early 30s
Serial number is F26193 Cal.32S&W
I'd love to find more information on this if anyone can provide me with anything. Thanks.

[gdmoody]

Hey Twaits, that is very interesting. I bet Mr. Goforth might be able to give you some info . I am sure he will be around sooner than later.

[bcj1755]

That's neat. Not because the gun was used to kill people, but because it has history.

Alcohol Tax Unit, Department of the Treasury, huh? The predecessor to everyone's favorite gov't agency, BATFE To this day ATF is nothing but a glorified tax collection agency with overblown delusions of their own importance. But then, I might be a bit biased against them One of my grandmother's uncles had a run-in with the Revenuers during Prohibition. He had a still in the woods and they got after him one day. While he was running, his shoe came untied. He eventually tripped over a tree root and the fed grabbed his untied shoe, which came off allowing him to escape. After that, he never tied his shoes

[45nut]

I wonder why the mob amputated his finger?

[Twaits]

Originally Posted by 45nut

I wonder why the mob amputated his finger?

Funny I never even considered that before

[RJay]

I see things that might tie a Iver Johnson revolver to the crimes, but I see nothing to tie that specify revolver to the individual?

[358 winchester]

Originally Posted by RJay

I see things that might tie a Iver Johnson revolver to the crimes, but I see nothing to tie that specify revolver to the individual?

RJay it says he had the gun on him when arrested

[b.goforth]

this is a small frame safety automatic hammer 32 S&W revolver. its use at such a late date is the very reason i caution owners of second model safety automatic revolvers about firing their revolver. the second model was manufactured between 1896 and 1908. the F letter code was used in three different years on the small frame second model 1899, 1902 and 1903. only the patent date marking will tell us exactly which year it was made.

because of the history this revolver can not be valued using the normal standards. the value would be far greater to a collector of criminal mememorblia (bad spelling) than to a regular firearm collector.

for those interested there are a couple of other iver johnson revolver that are tied to famous murders. president mckinley was shot and killed by a small frame 32 caliber first model safety automatic hammer revolver and bobby kenedy was shot and killed by a iver johnson 22 caliber model 55S cadet. the kenedy gun disappeared from the police property room while the mckinley gun is in the Buffalo NY historical society.

bill

[RJay]

Who says he had "that" gun with him and who is to say THAT is the gun? The written commends state he had a gun with him, was it that gun, is the serial numbers listed somewhere in the police report. Is there proverdence on each step of owner ship since he was apprehended. I'm not saying it isn't the same gun, Just that the proverdence isn't shown. Is there a police mark scribed on the gun, is it listed in the evidence file. If all of that is there it is indeed a nice piece of history, otherwise a good story. I hate to be a spoil sport, It's just that I've seen too many Wells Fargo shotguns

[Twaits]

Originally Posted by b.goforth

this is a small frame safety automatic hammer 32 S&W revolver. its use at such a late date is the very reason i caution owners of second model safety automatic revolvers about firing their revolver. the second model was manufactured between 1896 and 1908. the F letter code was used in three different years on the small frame second model 1899, 1902 and 1903. only the patent date marking will tell us exactly which year it was made.

because of the history this revolver can not be valued using the normal standards. the value would be far greater to a collector of criminal mememorblia (bad spelling) than to a regular firearm collector.

for those interested there are a couple of other iver johnson revolver that are tied to famous murders. president mckinley was shot and killed by a small frame 32 caliber first model safety automatic hammer revolver and bobby kenedy was shot and killed by a iver johnson 22 caliber model 55S cadet. the kenedy gun disappeared from the police property room while the mckinley gun is in the Buffalo NY historical society.

bill

Bill,

This gun is a good example of a black powder gun that was used with a steady diet of smokeless powder. The gun no longer functions and I don't have any intention of fixing it. Note the severe flame cutting in the picture below. Also everything on the gun is really loose:

[Twaits]

Anyone know how I can move this post to the C&R section?
I think I posted it here by mistake. I really don't care what it
is worth and this one is sort of impossible to gage anyhow.
Thanks.

[gdmoody]

Twaits - it actually IS in the C&R section! If it was posted somewhere else, one of the Mods probably put it in the proper location.

[Twaits]

Oh ok. Thanks!

[45Auto]

Originally Posted by Twaits

Bill,

This gun is a good example of a black powder gun that was used with a steady diet of smokeless powder. The gun no longer functions and I don't have any intention of fixing it. Note the severe flame cutting in the picture below. Also everything on the gun is really loose:

I don't see "flame cutting" only a dirty revolver that has not been cleaned in a long, long, time. It's not uncommon to see abused IJ revolvers shot alot and left dirty. They also tend to shoot loose at the joint and latch. Sometimes, the latch screw will bend or stretch. Giving the screw a 1/2 turn may tighten it up. But if anyone wants to shoot one of these load some shells with black powder first.

[Twaits]

45Auto, I couldn't get any closer with the camera but there is a distinct groove right behind the rear of the barrel on the inside of the topstrap.

[Twaits]

Well I was put in contact with a guy that researched Joseph Zullo and it turns out no Zullo was ever executed by the state of New York or by the Federal prison system. Looks like the story is a hoax after all.
I think the Wanted flyer is probably real. I would love to just find out
who Jospeh Zullo was and If they ever did get him put behind bars.
If anyone else out there has any suggestions please let me know.
Thanks a lot!

-Erik

[RJay]

Sorry about that, like I said, I have seen too many Wells Fargo Guns.

[b.goforth]

in the 1920 census there was one joseph zullo (age does not match up) living in essex new jersey with several more zullo's in other cities. the census listing stated that the name was sometime spelled zulla.
bill

[45Auto]

Maybe Zulo subsequently murdered someone in a different state and was arrested and executed there?

[Twaits]

Originally Posted by 45Auto

Maybe Zulo subsequently murdered someone in a different state and was arrested and executed there?

The guy I wrote to researched the entire US. He said not one Zullo was ever executed in the US.