Tactical Vest

[1 CAV]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

I used a bergen on and off several years. That's all I've ever needed for an extended mission sack. My ALICE has always been a faithful bag though. She's used up many frames. They are not standard issue anymore in most places. I'm down to my last one and I don't think you can even DX them anymore.

The trick to the straps is keep them new. Once you sling on a heavy ruck, you don't want to take it off anyway until you're done, so I cinch a knot in the strap.

If you wear out a release, they are still good enough to make quick-release rifle slings, V-Tac style, unless it's just totally stripped.

Thanks, I'll try the knot trick. Right now I'm using a Tobago Molle pack that I picked up from Voodoo Tactical. It's a good pack if you're only out 3 or 4 days at a time. Anything past that and it doesn't have enough room, it's only about a 2400 or so. I'm looking at getting a large pack from Kelty believe it or not.

This should work for those long hauls.



I still keep my Alice pack minus frame as a get home bag in my jeep.

[delta13soultaker]

Cool, man.

Yeah 2,400 isn't a lot. That's 24 liters...so yeah basically an assault pack size. It's good to have different sized bags handy though.

That pack in the pic looks like $400-$500 job.

If I could offer an opinion. A bergen can be had for $100-$200 US dollars. The best are the British Army rucks and they have different generations. You get 80 liters to 120 liters (8,000-12,000) sizes. If you need to hump a 100 lbs of the most lightweight crap ever invented, those sacks are hard to beat. Army surplus are good to go...but the knock-offs are more expensive and maybe built as good or maybe not. The side pouches on a army bergen are actually big enough to put stuff in and if you want to modify loads they just come off.

The US Army ruck is kinda in the middle, in my opinion. Not as up to extended time as a bergen but more than an assault pack and more actually usable anchor points for stuff. I know the ruck isn't comfortable to most, but adding the improved wide straps, keep them serviceable/new, and a thick kidney pad make it about like a molly but it won't break. All a ruck needs to be 21st century is buckle releases instead of brass snaps, in my opinion, once you get rid of the dinky padding.

Take it for what it's worth. A hundred pounds of junk and 2 weeks in the snow in a $100 limey sack or in a $500 American sack is still hundred pounds of junk and 2 weeks in the snow...lol The batteries, bullets, butane and socks don't know the difference.

[USMC-03]

Delta and Cav, you guys are bringing back many memories miserable humps with aching backs and feet. I'm glad I don't do that for a living anymore, just to dang old and fat to hang these days...

[1 CAV]

Originally Posted by USMC-03

Delta and Cav, you guys are bringing back many memories miserable humps with aching backs and feet. I'm glad I don't do that for a living anymore, just to dang old and fat to hang these days...

You are not authorized to be old Marine!!! lol Heck there's no such thing as too old USMC, you just gotta motivate yourself to do it. I bet you a pile of money you'll feel better about yourself if you strapped on even a twenty pound ruck sack and hiked for an hour or so. You'll start remembering "how it was" and "how you used to be". It's a great workout to boot. Give it a try Marine, you'll feel better about yourself I promise you.

[1 CAV]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

That pack in the pic looks like $400-$500 job.

Yeah $400. Thanks for the info on the Bergen, I'll check into it.

[delta13soultaker]

Jeeez I dunno Cav.

I'm with USMC. Once I retire I ain't strapping on anything. If it looks like 20 pounds it's getting bungeed to the back of my quad

Every year over 30 yrs old adds 1 extra pound to how heavy it feels, an extra minute to every mile to run over 4 miles, 1 extra degree to the heat or minus one for every degree in the cold. I hate to think what it's like over 40 yrs old...that's why this dude will be a Mr. by then, and the heaviest thing you'll catch me carrying is a 1 liter coffee mug.

[kutaho]

Turn 53 in about four months, still toss on the old mountaineering frame kelty
with a bristle cone bag. 40 to 60 lbs. Can't do the max anymore, got this one vertebra...
Had it for close to 30 years, most i ever had on it was 95 lbs.

[1 CAV]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Jeeez I dunno Cav.

I'm with USMC. Once I retire I ain't strapping on anything. If it looks like 20 pounds it's getting bungeed to the back of my quad

Every year over 30 yrs old adds 1 extra pound to how heavy it feels, an extra minute to every mile to run over 4 miles, 1 extra degree to the heat or minus one for every degree in the cold. I hate to think what it's like over 40 yrs old...that's why this dude will be a Mr. by then, and the heaviest thing you'll catch me carrying is a 1 liter coffee mug.

LOL, Careful Delta, I used to say the same thing. I lasted about four or five years too. But ultimately, I found myself putting on a pack again, taking hikes, buying my own gear and weapons. Try as you might, you just won't get it out of your blood. By now it's not what you do, it's what you are.


By the way, you're going to find that most civilians who have never served their country in any fashion are annoying as hell. You won't like them. Trust me.



And, on a sad note, Shifty Powers has died. God Bless you Shifty.

[1 CAV]

Originally Posted by kutaho

Turn 53 in about four months, still toss on the old mountaineering frame kelty
with a bristle cone bag. 40 to 60 lbs. Can't do the max anymore, got this one vertebra...
Had it for close to 30 years, most i ever had on it was 95 lbs.

You Sir are an inspiration.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by 1 CAV

LOL, Careful Delta, I used to say the same thing. I lasted about four or five years too. But ultimately, I found myself putting on a pack again, taking hikes, buying my own gear and weapons. Try as you might, you just won't get it out of your blood. By now it's not what you do, it's what you are.


By the way, you're going to find that most civilians who have never served their country in any fashion are annoying as hell. You won't like them. Trust me.



And, on a sad note, Shifty Powers has died. God Bless you Shifty.

Yeah, probably so. It's always a matter of time before that sound in the wind starts calling you to stay a few nights.

I've learned to be patient with some of those who haven't served, but then again I have limited contact with most, in whatever capacity. The best policy for me is to just totally avoid conversations that may get annoying for myself...that way they get annoyed, think I'm a jerk, and don't bring it up anymore.

Recently, I had an ethics professor question my version of how the Army does urinalysis. She just couldn't grasp that there is a totally different world outside of business and education; one that doesn't waste much effort on how you "feel" about doing what you're told to do, even if it isn't necessarily comfortable or necessarily normal. Oh well.


Shifty...sad for sure.

[sabashimon]

Originally Posted by 1 CAV

By the way, you're going to find that most civilians who have never served their country in any fashion are annoying as hell. You won't like them. Trust me.

That's one of the "nice" things about serving in Israel.......everybody serves, or has served in the IDF (not that there aren't plenty of annoying people there anyway )

By the way, check out Kifaru, they are tough to beat.

[USMC-03]

Originally Posted by 1 CAV

You are not authorized to be old Marine!!! lol Heck there's no such thing as too old USMC, you just gotta motivate yourself to do it. I bet you a pile of money you'll feel better about yourself if you strapped on even a twenty pound ruck sack and hiked for an hour or so. You'll start remembering "how it was" and "how you used to be". It's a great workout to boot. Give it a try Marine, you'll feel better about yourself I promise you.

Oh, I do every now and again, when I have time anyway. And I do remember how it was if I try to sleep someplace other than my bed; there was a time when I was so used to racking out on the ground that beds weren't comfortable and often ended up on the floor with a blanket. If I did that now my back would ache for a week.

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Jeeez I dunno Cav.

I'm with USMC. Once I retire I ain't strapping on anything. If it looks like 20 pounds it's getting bungeed to the back of my quad

Every year over 30 yrs old adds 1 extra pound to how heavy it feels, an extra minute to every mile to run over 4 miles, 1 extra degree to the heat or minus one for every degree in the cold. I hate to think what it's like over 40 yrs old...that's why this dude will be a Mr. by then, and the heaviest thing you'll catch me carrying is a 1 liter coffee mug.

You're my kind of guy, Delta; except I'll have an old flat fender jeep instead of a quad… And trust me, after 40 it just gets worse; I still have the edge over most guys my age and a lot that are younger, but there is no way I'm keeping up with 20 year olds on a run or hump anymore.

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

Recently, I had an ethics professor question my version of how the Army does urinalysis. She just couldn't grasp that there is a totally different world outside of business and education; one that doesn't waste much effort on how you "feel" about doing what you're told to do, even if it isn't necessarily comfortable or necessarily normal. Oh well.

I once had a management professor who started railing against how the military trained it's people; breaking down recruits just to build them up again was a waste of time and damaged self esteem, bad for morale, blah, blah. It turned out that along with me there was a retired Navy chief and I think three other former military. He got a bit of an ear full…

Originally Posted by sabashimon

By the way, check out Kifaru, they are tough to beat.

I've looked at the Kifaru web site before; they have some pretty good stuff. I like Multi-Cam and they offer gear in that pattern.

[delta13soultaker]

They (like the professor you mention) just can not realize how much valuable time, effort and personal sacrifice it takes from the cadre to work out 18 years worth of self-centered, pop-culture, spoon fed, self-delusional, spoiled, pampered civilian bullcrap from 240 recruits every 10 or 15 weeks (BCT vs OSUT). And once you get them good to go, they graduate and 4 days later you begin again, indoctrinating worthless attitudes into problem-solving weapons that do not know what quit looks like.

Even going through as a private, you have no idea how much it takes from your cadre. Many NCO's lose their marriage in that duty....it is non-stop relentless...no holiday is sacred for 2 years every day...or 3 if you opt for it.

I was a DS for 36 months, 2 weeks, and 2 days. Believe me....nobody...nobody...would expend the amount of work that that takes if it was not vitally necessary to create success.

I'd encourage that professor to go and show us how he'd turn stupid marshmallows into warriors capable of critical thinking under exhaustion and distress. He probably wouldn't know what victory looks like if it humped him in the mouth.


About annoying people. They're everywhere. Military has plenty...no exception...but hey, somebody loves them, ya know how it is. As long as they can work effectively in a team...

I know or knew civilians that never served but I respect very much. They worked just as long and hard and had as much to teach as anyone else, they just took different roads, if you will. There's just a few things I realize they'll never understand and as long as I never be the one to try and articulate to them then I'll never be frustrated.

[USMC-03]

I'm with you, Delta. The drill field was one of my options way back when but it just didn't appeal to me and ended up leaving active duty for the reserve. That's a very tough job and I'm impressed you stuck to it that long. I would have gone back to the fleet at the earliest reasonable time.

The professor I mentioned was actually a pretty good one, just something of a yuppie with some off base ideas. I actually had a surprising number that were former military of one branch or another. One was an Army drill sergeant, another a Navy pilot, a Marine F4 ordinance tech. It's going to be interesting to see what I run into in grad school.

There was a story I read some time ago, don't remember where, a about a Viet Nam vet who applied for a law school in the late 70's and later was a practicing attorney. When the admissions board looked over his application and got to the part about his military awards, they were reluctant to accept him because ha may have done something violent to earn all those medals. The head of the department, an older gentleman, piped up and said that he hoped so; otherwise they really wouldn't mean much. The younger members of the board were horrified, but then they apparently never knew this gentleman was a combat vet from WW2.

You're right too, there are things that those who have never served will never really get, but as long as they understand that freedom is fought for and support the military, good enough.

[delta13soultaker]

Originally Posted by USMC-03

they were reluctant to accept him because ha may have done something violent to earn all those medals. The head of the department, an older gentleman, piped up and said that he hoped so...

I really liked that.

Those board members, I feel sorry for their women.

[Trouble 45-70]

Originally Posted by delta13soultaker

They (like the professor you mention) just can not realize how much valuable time, effort and personal sacrifice it takes from the cadre to work out 18 years worth of self-centered, pop-culture, spoon fed, self-delusional, spoiled, pampered civilian bullcrap from 240 recruits every 10 or 15 weeks (BCT vs OSUT). And once you get them good to go, they graduate and 4 days later you begin again, indoctrinating worthless attitudes into problem-solving weapons that do not know what quit looks like.

Even going through as a private, you have no idea how much it takes from your cadre. Many NCO's lose their marriage in that duty....it is non-stop relentless...no holiday is sacred for 2 years every day...or 3 if you opt for it.

I was a DS for 36 months, 2 weeks, and 2 days. Believe me....nobody...nobody...would expend the amount of work that that takes if it was not vitally necessary to create success.

I'd encourage that professor to go and show us how he'd turn stupid marshmallows into warriors capable of critical thinking under exhaustion and distress. He probably wouldn't know what victory looks like if it humped him in the mouth.


About annoying people. They're everywhere. Military has plenty...no exception...but hey, somebody loves them, ya know how it is. As long as they can work effectively in a team...

I know or knew civilians that never served but I respect very much. They worked just as long and hard and had as much to teach as anyone else, they just took different roads, if you will. There's just a few things I realize they'll never understand and as long as I never be the one to try and articulate to them then I'll never be frustrated.

My #2 son was a DS for the Army. It is such a demanding job. My sons' Philapino wife came through it with flying colors despite having no family contact with the US military prior to marying my son. She is a remarkable woman. Serving in uniform gives most people a vastly different perception of the world than those who have never served, more so for those who have seen combat. There is beginning to be such a disconnect from the realities of the world by those who have never been in the military that I fear that we may all be in for a real bad awakening. Our misleaders are the tail wagging the dog.

[Pistol Liberty]

If valiant warriors ever get to the place where you despise the citizenry you've fought and sacrificed for, this country is doomed. Some of us may have had the better part of ourselves run down our momma's leg while she was in some drunken stupor at a party or in the back of the Chevy but, I believe most us who have never served in uniform still deserve, and HONOR, the work of our American warriors.

My draft number was too high in 1971 to be called. I never called any returning Vietnam vet a baby killer. I've seen the 1000 yard stare in men's eyes. I've been humbled by what circumstance has done to men who served with and without choice. I've worked alongside several Vietnam vets burdened by their damaged souls. I still do.

My honor and duty as a US citizen is that I have striven to buy American every chance I get. I drive substantially American-made vehicles with American names on them. I vote in every election. I encourage others to vote. I, and my family, were/are worth defending. And I thank you, for whatever that may be worth to you, for working for me and mine, or some higher ideal of what America should be, in your minds.

We are not garbage.

[40CalJoe]

ALICE pack with new frame

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