Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High - The Firearms Forum

trapnbow · 09-12-2009, 08:31 PM

Gentlemen,
I am in need of more expert advise. I almost have a fun gun.

1. I now have the revolver shooting fine with a reduced load but it is shooting very high. Could this be because of the reduced load? I have started with this reduced load to be safe.

2. I also have occasional hammer bounce, even with this reduced load, that unlocks the cylinder upon firing. I assume that this is a hammer spring tension problem? Would you advise just re-shaping, or replacing the hammer spring?

The literature claims that this 44 cal has a max load of 28 grains of FFFG. I am using about 17 grains of FFFG topped off with Cream of Wheat and a WonderWad. The ball is 0.451", C of W has better texture than corn meal. I am using CCI Magnum Primers.

The groups are good but the center of the group is 8" high at 50 feet and about 11" high at 75 feet.

Any advise for the two issues described above would be appreciated.

Hammerslagger · 09-12-2009, 09:38 PM

You may have to put a higher front sight on it, or see less front sight when shooting. The longer the bullet is in the barrel, the more time the gun has to recoil and shoot higher. Heavier powder charges produce more recoil. The combination of total recoil and time recoiling determines how high it will shoot. This is easiest and usually determined by trial and error vs mathematical calculations.

I am not familiar with the Euroarms brand. Most Italian repo revolvers in nominal 44 cal.will only hold about 33 grains of FFFg Black Powder (by weight) and have room to seat the ball. That is typically the way I load and shoot them sealed with Crisco shortening or lard. The 19th cent. originals (excepting Walkers) held more powder, and were not known for breaking fully loaded. I do not understand why your brand would have a 28 grain max recommended charge, unless it is made from inferior materials (possibly Spanish). It should be made from at least 60K psi low carbon steel. I doubt you could get enough Black Powder in it to generate 12K psi. behind a round ball. Still, better safe than sorry. I am not advising exceeding maker limits, even though they seem low.

I also keep a cleaning rod with a bronze bristle brush in my range kit. I brush the barrel well after every cylinder full to preserve accuracy from residue build up.

trapnbow · 09-13-2009, 01:16 PM

Thanks Hammerslagger,

I appreciate the prompt reply and will try heaver loads this afternoon.

Do you have any thoughts on the occasional hammer blowback problem. When the hammer blows back it unlocks the cylinder. This is not good during the firing cycle. Have you had this occur and if so what was the remedy. I have assumed that it is a weak hammer spring and I might to stiffen it before I go to the range this afternoon.

Thanks,

Alpo · 09-13-2009, 01:46 PM

The 1851 Colt had a front sight designed to have the bullet at point of aim at 75 yards. Which means that at any realistic pistol range, it is going to shoot high. The replicas have the same sight height. Your options are to either replace the sight with a taller one, aim under what you are shooting at, or just point it and ignore the sights. With the rear sight being a notch in the hammer, using the sights is kinda "Huh?", anyway.

Hammerslagger · 09-13-2009, 02:01 PM

The hammer should not "blow back", ever. If such is happening your nipple(s) is burned out (or was made grossly too big going to the chamber).

The offending nipple(s) will have to be changed.

trapnbow · 09-13-2009, 07:48 PM

Thanks guys, the pompt responses are great.
I fired again this afternoon with a 25 grain charge of FFFG (and just the Wonder Wad) and it still shoots high at 50 feet and actually is still high at 50 yards. I give up on the POI problem for the moment and will order a new set of nipples to solve the more ciritical problem.
This excercise has been a real learning experience and I apprectiate the assistance. I am an old bulleye shooter but have not done anything with BP revolvers before this adventure. My BP TC muzzle loader is as accurate as most rifles and I was hoping to get the same results with the revolver. I am learning fast that probably will not happen. However, even with the POI high, the groups are about 2 - 3 inches at 50 feet not too shabby.

Does anyone else own a Euroarms revolver?

09-12-2009, 08:31 PM	#1
trapnbow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northeast Massachusetts Posts: 90	Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High Gentlemen, I am in need of more expert advise. I almost have a fun gun. 1. I now have the revolver shooting fine with a reduced load but it is shooting very high. Could this be because of the reduced load? I have started with this reduced load to be safe. 2. I also have occasional hammer bounce, even with this reduced load, that unlocks the cylinder upon firing. I assume that this is a hammer spring tension problem? Would you advise just re-shaping, or replacing the hammer spring? The literature claims that this 44 cal has a max load of 28 grains of FFFG. I am using about 17 grains of FFFG topped off with Cream of Wheat and a WonderWad. The ball is 0.451", C of W has better texture than corn meal. I am using CCI Magnum Primers. The groups are good but the center of the group is 8" high at 50 feet and about 11" high at 75 feet. Any advise for the two issues described above would be appreciated. __________________ Trapnbow NRA Life Member NRA Firearms Instructor Hunter Education Instructor -->

09-12-2009, 09:38 PM	#2
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High You may have to put a higher front sight on it, or see less front sight when shooting. The longer the bullet is in the barrel, the more time the gun has to recoil and shoot higher. Heavier powder charges produce more recoil. The combination of total recoil and time recoiling determines how high it will shoot. This is easiest and usually determined by trial and error vs mathematical calculations. I am not familiar with the Euroarms brand. Most Italian repo revolvers in nominal 44 cal.will only hold about 33 grains of FFFg Black Powder (by weight) and have room to seat the ball. That is typically the way I load and shoot them sealed with Crisco shortening or lard. The 19th cent. originals (excepting Walkers) held more powder, and were not known for breaking fully loaded. I do not understand why your brand would have a 28 grain max recommended charge, unless it is made from inferior materials (possibly Spanish). It should be made from at least 60K psi low carbon steel. I doubt you could get enough Black Powder in it to generate 12K psi. behind a round ball. Still, better safe than sorry. I am not advising exceeding maker limits, even though they seem low. I also keep a cleaning rod with a bronze bristle brush in my range kit. I brush the barrel well after every cylinder full to preserve accuracy from residue build up.

09-13-2009, 01:16 PM	#3
trapnbow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northeast Massachusetts Posts: 90	Re: Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High Thanks Hammerslagger, I appreciate the prompt reply and will try heaver loads this afternoon. Do you have any thoughts on the occasional hammer blowback problem. When the hammer blows back it unlocks the cylinder. This is not good during the firing cycle. Have you had this occur and if so what was the remedy. I have assumed that it is a weak hammer spring and I might to stiffen it before I go to the range this afternoon. Thanks, __________________ Trapnbow NRA Life Member NRA Firearms Instructor Hunter Education Instructor

09-13-2009, 01:46 PM	#4
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,650	Re: Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High The 1851 Colt had a front sight designed to have the bullet at point of aim at 75 yards. Which means that at any realistic pistol range, it is going to shoot high. The replicas have the same sight height. Your options are to either replace the sight with a taller one, aim under what you are shooting at, or just point it and ignore the sights. With the rear sight being a notch in the hammer, using the sights is kinda "Huh?", anyway. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

09-13-2009, 02:01 PM	#5
Hammerslagger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 1,099	Re: Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High The hammer should not "blow back", ever. If such is happening your nipple(s) is burned out (or was made grossly too big going to the chamber). The offending nipple(s) will have to be changed.

09-13-2009, 07:48 PM	#6
trapnbow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Northeast Massachusetts Posts: 90	Re: Euroarms 1851 Navy, Shooting High Thanks guys, the pompt responses are great. I fired again this afternoon with a 25 grain charge of FFFG (and just the Wonder Wad) and it still shoots high at 50 feet and actually is still high at 50 yards. I give up on the POI problem for the moment and will order a new set of nipples to solve the more ciritical problem. This excercise has been a real learning experience and I apprectiate the assistance. I am an old bulleye shooter but have not done anything with BP revolvers before this adventure. My BP TC muzzle loader is as accurate as most rifles and I was hoping to get the same results with the revolver. I am learning fast that probably will not happen. However, even with the POI high, the groups are about 2 - 3 inches at 50 feet not too shabby. Does anyone else own a Euroarms revolver? __________________ Trapnbow NRA Life Member NRA Firearms Instructor Hunter Education Instructor