Geo. Custer biography?

[Artemus]

Custer belonged to a large group of Army Officers that thought nothing of slaughtering women,children and old men and then calling it a successful campaign.This is a very sad chapter in US history.When I was a kid I rooted for the Cavalry and Cowboys,now I root for the Native Americans.

[45nut]

{Thread veers back on track}

A very good read is Stephen E. Ambrose's "Crazy Horse and Custer"

amazon dot com

Ambrose does not gloss over Custer's flaws and it ties together two powerful men who met in battle.

[Thomas G]

After reading "bury my heart" many years ago, I sort of side with the indians too. I have to say though that army officers follow orders no matter what thier personnal feeling are. At the time of Custer's fight he was not following orders, he was specificaly ordered to wait for the rest of the army to catch up with him befor he initiated any action. Speculators feel that what Custer intended was a glorious victory and a fast trip to St.Louis where the Democratic convention was being held. He had hoped to throw his hat in the ring for Vice President, then eventually to the big chair. He didn't get to St. Louis, which I personally feel is a good thing. History is full of fighting men like him, includeing Geo. Patton and Irwin Rommel but I wouldn't care to serve under them.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by Thomas G

...a leader that never asked of his men that which he wouldn't do himself. Give the devil his due...

While it was reported that Custer was revered by his men during the Civil War, he was generally despised and hated by his men during the Indian wars. He punished them severely for any infraction while at the same time broke many rules and regulations, including going A.W.O.L while on duty, traveling back to Michigan to be with his wife. The "stuff" about "...a leader that never asked of his men that which he wouldn't do himself...", was the product of a fictional movie (I believe it was, "Custer of the West", but not sure). The above comes from one of the books and documentaries published about him. Also, I believe he was the one credited for the most demerits ever given to a West Point cadet.

[Freebore]

I did a lot of reading about Custer and I would highly recommend reading the book "Son of the Morning Star" by Evan S. Cornnell. Much of this book is taken from transcripts kept by Custer's company surgeon. This book gives you all of the gory details regarding Custer's time in the west, and his final demise at Little Big Horn.

Also, there is a lot of information regarding the Ogala Souix and their activity concerning Custer at the time.......very good book.

Son of the Morning Star is what the Souix called Custer

[kingnothingugm]

An arrogant politician in military dress. He matched single shots against lever actions...refused the offer of the gatling gun and sorely underestimated his enemy...he would have made a great VP for Obama...sorry, no recommendations for the bio! Just my $.02.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by kingnothingugm

An arrogant politician in military dress. He matched single shots against lever actions...refused the offer of the gatling gun and sorely underestimated his enemy...he would have made a great VP for Obama...sorry, no recommendations for the bio! Just my $.02.

He did not "...refused the offer of the gatling gun...", he decided to leave them behind as being too slow to keep up with his light cavalry movements.
Also, he had nothing to do with using single shots against lever actions. The 1873 "trapdoor" carbine was the standard issue for cavalry...he had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, men armed with single shot trapdoors can maintain a higher volume of fire than men armed with the same number of lever actions over a period of time...this has been demonstrated several times. The advantage of the lever action's magazine is only useful in maintaining the initial volume of fire. After the magazine is empty, it takes a longer time to reload it than it takes a man with a trapdoor to load and fire the same number of shots. As has been the subject of magazine articles on a couple of different occasions. It was not until the advent of the stripper clip for bolt actions that magazine fed repeaters could best the rate of fire from trapdoors. The single shot "trapdoor" continued to be used by National Guard soldiers during the Spanish American War even though the Army were issued Krags.

Custer's biggest mistake was sending Major Reno to cross the river while he continued on the high ground to cut off the Indian retreat. Noteworthy is that Custer would not believe how many Indians were in the encampment despite his Crow scouts telling him that if he attacked, it would be the day he died.

When Reno got into trouble, he dismounted his men in the trees and fought dismounted (one fourth of the men have to hold horses, cannot shoot). Reno (who was known for his drunkenness), alternately gave the order to mount and then dismount several times...most likely in the confusion, many of his men did not follow the current command. And then, the Crow scout standing next to Reno (I think his name was "Curly", but it might have been "White Man Runs Him", cannot remember for sure.), took a round through the head, splattering Reno with blood and brains, Reno really lost it, ordering his men to mount and gallop across the river and up the slope to open ground. Some may have not heard the order, many were killed as they crossed the river...in complete disarray. Reno made a stand on the high ground were he stayed (Bentyne eventually joined him there), until the next day.

[kingnothingugm]

Originally Posted by nightfighter

He did not "...refused the offer of the gatling gun...", he decided to leave them behind as being too slow to keep up with his light cavalry movements.
Also, he had nothing to do with using single shots against lever actions. The 1873 "trapdoor" carbine was the standard issue for cavalry...he had nothing to do with it. Furthermore, men armed with single shot trapdoors can maintain a higher volume of fire than men armed with the same number of lever actions over a period of time...this has been demonstrated several times. The advantage of the lever action's magazine is only useful in maintaining the initial volume of fire. After the magazine is empty, it takes a longer time to reload it than it takes a man with a trapdoor to load and fire the same number of shots. As has been the subject of magazine articles on a couple of different occasions. It was not until the advent of the stripper clip for bolt actions that magazine fed repeaters could best the rate of fire from trapdoors. The single shot "trapdoor" continued to be used by National Guard soldiers during the Spanish American War even though the Army were issued Krags.

Custer's biggest mistake was sending Major Reno to cross the river while he continued on the high ground to cut off the Indian retreat. Noteworthy is that Custer would not believe how many Indians were in the encampment despite his Crow scouts telling him that if he attacked, it would be the day he died.

When Reno got into trouble, he dismounted his men in the trees and fought dismounted (one fourth of the men have to hold horses, cannot shoot). Reno (who was known for his drunkenness), alternately gave the order to mount and then dismount several times...most likely in the confusion, many of his men did not follow the current command. And then, the Crow scout standing next to Reno (I think his name was "Curly", but it might have been "White Man Runs Him", cannot remember for sure.), took a round through the head, splattering Reno with blood and brains, Reno really lost it, ordering his men to mount and gallop across the river and up the slope to open ground. Some may have not heard the order, many were killed as they crossed the river...in complete disarray. Reno made a stand on the high ground were he stayed (Bentyne eventually joined him there), until the next day.

Either way he declined to take the Gatling, the machine gun of the day. Although it may not have been accurate or extremely mobile, it was a good psychological deterent. And although the trapdoors may have been able to sustain a higher rate of fire over time, Custer was outnumbered by an enemy equipped with repeating firearms. even if the advantage was only 2 to 1 it still means that one could fire and then reload while the next fired. Then again, had the circumstances been reversed, Custer may still have been defeated and I am just blowing smoke.

[nightfighter]

Originally Posted by kingnothingugm

Either way he declined to take the Gatling, the machine gun of the day. Although it may not have been accurate or extremely mobile, it was a good psychological deterent. And although the trapdoors may have been able to sustain a higher rate of fire over time, Custer was outnumbered by an enemy equipped with repeating firearms. even if the advantage was only 2 to 1 it still means that one could fire and then reload while the next fired. Then again, had the circumstances been reversed, Custer may still have been defeated and I am just blowing smoke.

As you say, Custer was very outnumbered. However, if he had keep all thee units as one (Reno, Benteen) they would likely have been attacked (I do not think the Indians were going to run as they usually did), and they could have been held off until relief arrived. Then after giving the cavalry a rear end kicking, they would have left (they would have had to leave...they knew that infantry were on the way).