Can a Pres be charged... - The Firearms Forum

navis128 · 09-21-2009, 06:10 PM

I'm not a Constitutional scholar...

Can a President be charged with "dereliction of duty", or is that just for enlisted? Can it be considered dereliction if you don't listen to your Generals during a time of war?

satellite66 · 09-21-2009, 06:14 PM

I'm not lawyer but I would think any charges would have to come from congress. Impeachment.
As far as listening to generals the military is under his direction. They have to listen to him.
Truman and MacArthur come to mind.

navis128 · 09-21-2009, 06:19 PM

Yes sir, I understand the whole CiC thing, but I still think it's dereliction of duty. Duty to defend the US against all enemies, foriegn and domestic.

Rocket J Squirl · 09-21-2009, 06:21 PM

Take you pick, Joe Biden, Nancy P, or Harry Reid

You go from dumb to dumber

navis128 · 09-21-2009, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocket J Squirl

Take you pick, Joe Biden, Nancy P, or Harry Reid

You go from dumb to dumber

Gee thanks for the reminder...my rose colored glasses just fogged up.

Terry_P · 09-21-2009, 06:30 PM

This congress isn't about to impeach him because they are worse than he is. He is commander in chief so he has final say on military matters, right or wrong.

Snakedriver · 09-21-2009, 06:53 PM

I despised Carter during his Presidency for his incompetence, but at least he graduated from the USNA at Annapolis and served on a nuclear submarine. Big “O” hasn’t got the slightest clue about what he is doing. It’s so sad when the clown can make Carter look like Albert Einstein. Carter must be elated that he won’t have to go through eternity as the most incompetent U.S. President ever.

navis128 · 09-21-2009, 07:03 PM

Yeah, I was enlisted during Carter and Regan. The only thing Carter had going for him was that he was in the Navy, but I did wonder how he earned Capt. rank and not banished to the 1st Lt. division after the hostage rescue debauchel. That's what we called the TAD janitors back then.

kingchip · 09-21-2009, 07:26 PM

C'mpn guys, Carter isn't all bad. I happen to like peanuts.

45nut · 09-22-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snakedriver

I despised Carter during his Presidency for his incompetence, but at least he graduated from the USNA at Annapolis and served on a nuclear submarine.

Jimmy Cahtah resigned in 1953 and the first nuclear sub was christened and launched in 1954.

But yeah, other than that he sucks. He has to be the most worthless use of oxygen on the planet.

Snakedriver · 09-22-2009, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45nut

Jimmy Cahtah resigned in 1953 and the first nuclear sub was christened and launched in 1954.

You know you are absolutely right, he only served on diesel-electric sub's.. I knew he worked with Capt. Hyman Rickover on the Nuc. Sub. Program and made the assumption that he was on a nuc. sub. Thanks for clarifying that point for me.

It still doesn't change a thing regarding his worthless existence though!

momo · 09-24-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navis128

I'm not a Constitutional scholar...

Can a President be charged with "dereliction of duty", or is that just for enlisted? Can it be considered dereliction if you don't listen to your Generals during a time of war?

He can only be charged with "high crimes and misdemeanors", and this must be done by the congressional impeachment process.

momo · 09-24-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 45nut

Jimmy Cahtah resigned in 1953 and the first nuclear sub was christened and launched in 1954.

But yeah, other than that he sucks. He has to be the most worthless use of oxygen on the planet.

Until now!

Michael G · 09-25-2009, 05:51 PM

They all took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States.
None of them are doing it.
In my eyes they are all "Hanoi Janes"

rundownfid · 10-10-2009, 09:43 PM

All of the opinions on Carter and Obama are, perhaps, valid. But the fact is that he can't be charged with anything while president. He must be impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate; at which time he would no longer be President and can be charged like any other citizen. Until then he is literally above the law.

Terry_P · 10-11-2009, 09:03 AM

As Commander in Chief not listening to his subordinates isn't a crime. He has the final say. Scary thought huh?

Bobitis · 10-11-2009, 02:34 PM

Clinton was impeached.
Where did that get us?

If I were convicted of perjury, I'd be in prison.
Bill went home, got a quicky, and had a Cuban cigar.

It takes sack to step down.
Nixon had the nut to do it. But he was a Republican.
Billy boy thumbed his fat nose at the process and went back to being more descreet.

Impeachment?
What's that?

Suwannee Tim · 10-11-2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by navis128

Yeah, I was enlisted during Carter and Regan. The only thing Carter had going for him was that he was in the Navy, but I did wonder how he earned Capt. rank and not banished to the 1st Lt. division after the hostage rescue debauchel. That's what we called the TAD janitors back then.

Carter never made Captain. He was discharged a Lieutenant.

He will always, always hold, in my heat, the title of Ugliest Ex-President for ever more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rundownfid

He must be impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate; at which time he would no longer be President and can be charged like any other citizen. Until then he is literally above the law.

This was a self-serving position held by Clinton's lawyers, it was never affirmed by any court. There is not constitutional or statuatory reason that a President could not be indicted, tried and convicted of a crime and even imprisoned.

belercous · 10-11-2009, 10:24 PM

"Carter must be elated that he won’t have to go through eternity as the most incompetent U.S. President ever."

I bet he's tickled. If I were him, my best friend would be G.W.B.

Actually, according to the concensus of historians, Carter ranks 25/42 while G.W.B. ranks 36/42. Polls of the general public are erratic & inconsistent. Polls of historians are quite (but not totally) consistent.
Interestingly, Nixon ranks pretty low on all polls. I actually thought he was a good president. A horrible person, abusive of his powers, and an all-around evil person to be sure. He just got caught doing the same type of things his predecessors did. And then got caught lying about it. But all that aside, I believe he did a lot of good for the country. If you look at his record (of bills signed into law), he signed more "liberal" legislation than any of his successors. Can't tell about Obama, too soon. But I'll predict that he will be ranked as one of our better presidents by historians.

Archie · 10-12-2009, 01:26 PM

Under the Constitutional statutes, a President may be impeached and upon conviction, removed from office only for '...high crimes and misdemeanors...' Such impeachment must be instigated by the House of Representatives and the finding of fact or trial is performed in the Senate.

So, two questions arise: Has the President committed an act amounting to a '... high crime or misdemeanor...'? Is bad judgment (no doubt in my mind) a crime? Or is he merely exercising his Presidential prerogative as Commander in Chief? Lord help us, the President gets to be wrong at times. I would not have it every President be held criminally responsible for any and all breaches of perfect judgment.

The second question is: Will the Congress act if they perceive a 'high crime or misdemeanor'? As noted by others, probably not.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you all to write and call your Congressperson, both Representative and Senator; direct them to send more troops to General McCrystal. Direct them to oppose Socialized Health Care and Cap and Tax (and tax and tax and tax...). Send money to the NRA, the SAF and/or whatever national 'gun lobby' you like. When a politician calls for your support, tell them where you sent your political money and to apply to them for support.

If you know of a PAC against Socialized Healthcare, you might send them money as well. What ever you can afford.

Then, next year, vote for anyone who opposed Socialized Medicine, was for sending more troops to Afghanistan or is pro-gun. We the people have to get Congress back under Conservative control (that seems to be Republican, but there are conservative Democrats) soonest and the White House in 2012. Anything else is national suicide.

Let us not waste time and energy fighting shadows. We have real problems to address now.

Bobitis · 10-12-2009, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archie

Under the Constitutional statutes, a President may be impeached and upon conviction, removed from office only for '...high crimes and misdemeanors...' Such impeachment must be instigated by the House of Representatives and the finding of fact or trial is performed in the Senate.

So, two questions arise: Has the President committed an act amounting to a '... high crime or misdemeanor...'? Is bad judgment (no doubt in my mind) a crime? Or is he merely exercising his Presidential prerogative as Commander in Chief? Lord help us, the President gets to be wrong at times. I would not have it every President be held criminally responsible for any and all breaches of perfect judgment.

The second question is: Will the Congress act if they perceive a 'high crime or misdemeanor'? As noted by others, probably not.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you all to write and call your Congressperson, both Representative and Senator; direct them to send more troops to General McCrystal. Direct them to oppose Socialized Health Care and Cap and Tax (and tax and tax and tax...). Send money to the NRA, the SAF and/or whatever national 'gun lobby' you like. When a politician calls for your support, tell them where you sent your political money and to apply to them for support.

If you know of a PAC against Socialized Healthcare, you might send them money as well. What ever you can afford.

Then, next year, vote for anyone who opposed Socialized Medicine, was for sending more troops to Afghanistan or is pro-gun. We the people have to get Congress back under Conservative control (that seems to be Republican, but there are conservative Democrats) soonest and the White House in 2012. Anything else is national suicide.

Let us not waste time and energy fighting shadows. We have real problems to address now.

High cimes and misdemeanors.
Nice to know a crime committed by the pres can be over looked but the avereage Joe goes to prison.

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/high_crimes.htm

09-21-2009, 06:10 PM	#1
navis128 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,392	Can a Pres be charged... I'm not a Constitutional scholar... Can a President be charged with "dereliction of duty", or is that just for enlisted? Can it be considered dereliction if you don't listen to your Generals during a time of war? -->

09-21-2009, 06:14 PM	#2
satellite66 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Central NJ Posts: 2,068	Re: Can a Pres be charged... I'm not lawyer but I would think any charges would have to come from congress. Impeachment. As far as listening to generals the military is under his direction. They have to listen to him. Truman and MacArthur come to mind. __________________ “Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not” — Thomas Jefferson. "The American people will never knowingly adopt socialism. But, under the name of 'liberalism,' they will adopt every fragment of the socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened." - Norman Thomas, U.S. Socialist Party presidential candidate 1940, 1944 and 1948

09-21-2009, 06:19 PM	#3
navis128 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,392	Re: Can a Pres be charged... Yes sir, I understand the whole CiC thing, but I still think it's dereliction of duty. Duty to defend the US against all enemies, foriegn and domestic.

09-21-2009, 06:21 PM	#4
Rocket J Squirl Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 418	Re: Can a Pres be charged... Take you pick, Joe Biden, Nancy P, or Harry Reid You go from dumb to dumber

09-21-2009, 06:30 PM	#6
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: Can a Pres be charged... This congress isn't about to impeach him because they are worse than he is. He is commander in chief so he has final say on military matters, right or wrong. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

09-21-2009, 06:53 PM	#7
Snakedriver Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: SW. Florida Posts: 1,219	Re: Can a Pres be charged... I despised Carter during his Presidency for his incompetence, but at least he graduated from the USNA at Annapolis and served on a nuclear submarine. Big “O” hasn’t got the slightest clue about what he is doing. It’s so sad when the clown can make Carter look like Albert Einstein. Carter must be elated that he won’t have to go through eternity as the most incompetent U.S. President ever. __________________ Fear is a reaction..........Courage is a decision

09-21-2009, 07:03 PM	#8
navis128 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,392	Re: Can a Pres be charged... Yeah, I was enlisted during Carter and Regan. The only thing Carter had going for him was that he was in the Navy, but I did wonder how he earned Capt. rank and not banished to the 1st Lt. division after the hostage rescue debauchel. That's what we called the TAD janitors back then.

09-21-2009, 07:26 PM	#9
kingchip Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Marble Falls, Texas Posts: 541	Re: Can a Pres be charged... C'mpn guys, Carter isn't all bad. I happen to like peanuts.

09-25-2009, 05:51 PM	#14
Michael G V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Garland Texas Posts: 366	Re: Can a Pres be charged... They all took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States. None of them are doing it. In my eyes they are all "Hanoi Janes" __________________ Kids now a days have a lot of smarts. What they lack is a bucket load of common sense.

10-10-2009, 09:43 PM	#15
rundownfid Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 5	Re: Can a Pres be charged... All of the opinions on Carter and Obama are, perhaps, valid. But the fact is that he can't be charged with anything while president. He must be impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate; at which time he would no longer be President and can be charged like any other citizen. Until then he is literally above the law.

10-11-2009, 09:03 AM	#16
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: Can a Pres be charged... As Commander in Chief not listening to his subordinates isn't a crime. He has the final say. Scary thought huh? __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

10-11-2009, 02:34 PM	#17
Bobitis Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 6,612	Re: Can a Pres be charged... Clinton was impeached. Where did that get us? If I were convicted of perjury, I'd be in prison. Bill went home, got a quicky, and had a Cuban cigar. It takes sack to step down. Nixon had the nut to do it. But he was a Republican. Billy boy thumbed his fat nose at the process and went back to being more descreet. Impeachment? What's that? __________________ ^.^ A point in every direction is the same as having no point at all

10-11-2009, 10:24 PM	#19
belercous Former Guest Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 195	Re: Can a Pres be charged... "Carter must be elated that he won’t have to go through eternity as the most incompetent U.S. President ever." I bet he's tickled. If I were him, my best friend would be G.W.B. Actually, according to the concensus of historians, Carter ranks 25/42 while G.W.B. ranks 36/42. Polls of the general public are erratic & inconsistent. Polls of historians are quite (but not totally) consistent. Interestingly, Nixon ranks pretty low on all polls. I actually thought he was a good president. A horrible person, abusive of his powers, and an all-around evil person to be sure. He just got caught doing the same type of things his predecessors did. And then got caught lying about it. But all that aside, I believe he did a lot of good for the country. If you look at his record (of bills signed into law), he signed more "liberal" legislation than any of his successors. Can't tell about Obama, too soon. But I'll predict that he will be ranked as one of our better presidents by historians.

10-12-2009, 01:26 PM	#20
Archie V.I.P. Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hastings, Nebraska; the Heartland! Posts: 294	Re: Can a Pres be charged... Under the Constitutional statutes, a President may be impeached and upon conviction, removed from office only for '...high crimes and misdemeanors...' Such impeachment must be instigated by the House of Representatives and the finding of fact or trial is performed in the Senate. So, two questions arise: Has the President committed an act amounting to a '... high crime or misdemeanor...'? Is bad judgment (no doubt in my mind) a crime? Or is he merely exercising his Presidential prerogative as Commander in Chief? Lord help us, the President gets to be wrong at times. I would not have it every President be held criminally responsible for any and all breaches of perfect judgment. The second question is: Will the Congress act if they perceive a 'high crime or misdemeanor'? As noted by others, probably not. Ladies and Gentlemen, I implore you all to write and call your Congressperson, both Representative and Senator; direct them to send more troops to General McCrystal. Direct them to oppose Socialized Health Care and Cap and Tax (and tax and tax and tax...). Send money to the NRA, the SAF and/or whatever national 'gun lobby' you like. When a politician calls for your support, tell them where you sent your political money and to apply to them for support. If you know of a PAC against Socialized Healthcare, you might send them money as well. What ever you can afford. Then, next year, vote for anyone who opposed Socialized Medicine, was for sending more troops to Afghanistan or is pro-gun. We the people have to get Congress back under Conservative control (that seems to be Republican, but there are conservative Democrats) soonest and the White House in 2012. Anything else is national suicide. Let us not waste time and energy fighting shadows. We have real problems to address now. __________________ Be at Peace; go forth, spread enlightenment and joy to all. Wear clean underwear and take a gun. http://oldmanmontgomery.wordpress.com/ for my thoughts...