Another, "what would YOU do" thread - The Firearms Forum

hkruss · 10-19-2009, 06:17 PM

Curious as to your responses.

Here is the scenario.
Let's say you are in your car at a red light. You are boxed in on all sides so you can't drive off. You have your window down, when you are physically attacked, be it by some road rager, or just a random thug. Some guy is punching you through your open window. He is NOT using anything but his fists. You are unable to call 911 because of the assault. You are unable to get the window up. You are unable to get the seat belt off to move away from him. You ARE armed with a pistol and you DO have access to it. The question is, would you shoot him?
The thing I keep thinking about is will a jury think you over-reacted because "the guy had no weapon, just his fists".
Personally, I would shoot, for several reasons. One, I consider his fists as weapons, and even though not many people are killed by punches, it does happen, (besides, I'm not about to sit there and take a beat down!). Second, I am totally defensive. He attacked me. Third, I live in a state which has the 'castle doctrine' which says I can use deadly force if attacked in my domicile, and by extention, that includes my car. Thing is, many of you do not have this doctrine in your states, so there would DEFINITELY be legal trouble for you! With that said, what would you do?

JohnTheCalifornian · 10-19-2009, 09:16 PM

Id shoot him. Nothing stopping him from pulling an unseen knife or other weapon to finish you off with. No doubt since you are surrounded by other vehicles with people in them you would have witnesses that could verify you were attacked and were acting in self defense.

cycloneman · 10-19-2009, 09:19 PM

I would shoot too. If your glocknut, he could simply let one rip and put the poor attacker into a coma.

That is why he needs mushrooms every day. It's like reloading

Kieran McCaig · 10-19-2009, 09:23 PM

How long was the light red,is it changing,I'd grab his hair and drive him down the road at high speed .Or get the wife to shoot him.

cycloneman · 10-19-2009, 09:40 PM

This is kinda what your talking about. I actually made a thread about this a while back. Bad language on this video so you are forwarned.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rsu9Iqxhoo

Gun Geezer · 10-20-2009, 07:20 PM

This actually happened to my father when I was just a small boy. A guy thought my father had cut him off or something and at the next red light, he pulled up next to us, jumped out of his car and reached in our window and grabbed my dad by the neck and collar and started shaking him. This was in the days before power windows, doorlocks and air-cond and our Buick Super sat high enough that the guy's arms were stretched uncomfortably between the window's edge and the upper door frame. My father, without missing a beat, cranked the window up and held the window crank as tight as he could putting maximum pressure on the guys arms. When the light changed, my dad put the shift lever in gear and started to roll forward. At this time, the guys wife ran out of her car and crying and pleading, begged my father to let him go. I swear the guy filled his pants because from the look on my father's face, I thought he would surely drive off, dragging the guy until his legs wore down to his knees. Dad stopped and let the window down. The guy meekly thanked him, apologized and got back in his car. As we drove away, I could see the guys wife slapping the snot out of him. My father never said a word about it and my mother sat quiet mumbling something about his temper. My dad wasn't very big, but you didn't want to piss him off.

jim summers · 10-20-2009, 07:54 PM

I am not going to let someone just pound on me especially when i have at my disposal that will get him off me. I'll take my chances with a jury i ain't never let someone pound on me and i ain't going to start this late in life.

johnlives4christ · 10-20-2009, 08:22 PM

i would probably shoot him. in kentucky, you only need to be in fear of your life or grave bodily harm. and with my wife in the car, i'd be afraid for her life and, yep... i'd warm my cold hands on the hot barrel as the cops arrived

Maximilian II · 10-21-2009, 02:11 AM

Drag him into the car and pulverize him.

CampingJosh · 10-21-2009, 07:17 AM

Shooting cannot be the first course of action. I'll take a punch or two to save someone's life, even if it's the life of the guy punching me.

I think I would try to warn him (without drawing the weapon), but if he were to continue the attack, draw and fire would likely be a one-step process. Once a gun is actually involved in the situation, I don't want any chance of him getting ahold of it.

Deathbunny · 10-21-2009, 08:43 AM

Huh. Tough call. Probably draw, then a gentle application of the front sight/barrel (AKA "pistol whipping"). A steel slide assembly across the bridge of the nose is a real attention-getter. If that doesn't work, "bang".

kutaho · 10-21-2009, 09:02 AM

It's a bit difficult to punch someone
consistently and effectively thru a window.
It'd be a good way ta get yer arm broke
at the elbow. But depends on the situation.

Helix_FR · 10-21-2009, 10:37 AM

I would get a hold of something, his sleeve, finger, anything to were I could get my way to his wrist and hold tight. You have the advantage, your sitting down with a low dead weight center of gravity. With the free hand open the door and shove the door with my shoulder while pulling him in. In a panic they'll try to get away and end up eating the top of the door frame. Done it before and I'll do it again. Guy lost 2 teeth and his buddies respect. Had no idea who he was or why he was so pissed. This was before my CCW.

Jay · 10-21-2009, 10:47 AM

IC 35-41-3-2 (Indiana Code)
Use of force to protect person or property

Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person:

(1) is justified in using deadly force; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary.

(b) A person:

(1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and
(2) does not have a duty to retreat;

if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle.

I will shoot him after the first blow.

40CalJoe · 10-21-2009, 11:27 AM

If I was attacked as described, I would break his nose with a punch if possible, if he came back for more, he would recieve a fatal dose of lead poisoning. Plenty of witnesses.

The punch might work in your favor showing deadly force was used after other methods of defense did not work. Might be worth having a can of pepper spray in the car for something like this.

Terry_P · 10-24-2009, 06:42 PM

You know the old saying about old guys, don't mess with them they'll just kill you. Defend yourself and sort it out later.

I had a guy come up to my car at a light several years ago in a road rage incident and start beating on my window. I pulled a Charter Arms Undercover Special and laid it on the seat. He saw it and said you going to shoot me as he was walking away. He got back in his car and no more road rage.

Big ugly · 10-24-2009, 06:49 PM

I have had this happen to wife and me here knoxville. I was in the Suburban so I was a little way off the ground but any way I opened the door hard enough to knock him back and then proceeded to kick his ass, He had a partner in the car with him who started to get out till he seeen the wife with my 41 mag pointed at his dome. After it was over with the attacker gon in his car and sped off and we called 911 and delt with the LEO's. We had lived in Knoxville 3 weeks when this happened.

Maximilian II · 10-25-2009, 02:29 AM

Tell a man what's right and he knows the difference between right and wrong.
Kick his a** for doing wrong and he stops doing wrong for a long time.

Lost One · 10-26-2009, 11:08 PM

How I would actually react in that situation I dont know, I do know when going through my course that we where taught NOT to shoot in that situation unless it was a car jacking in which case it is legal to shoot here in Utah (hint hint) this was a course taught by the instructor for the Salt Lake city police dept. a deputy sheriff out of Ogden and the head of the Salt Lake airport police (to bad they went out of business they taught a very good course but it was expensive and no one wanted to pay for good training. I would take the course again if they where still around) Their advise was if the car was able to move and you could not get to your gun to secure him in some way and floor it and smear him between the car and whatever else you could, thats what insurance is for.

Maximilian II · 10-27-2009, 02:45 AM

"Oops I ran him over!"
I like it.

Jester · 10-27-2009, 09:07 PM

In response to the original post:

I would not shoot the man without a warning. I would draw the handgun, aim it so he could clearly see it (even to the point of firing a shot off into the roof of my car if I felt it would save my life), then tell him (very quickly) to stop or I would shoot him.

If he proceeded to hit me after that, I gave him fair warning and it then became self-defense from a potentially lethal attack.

10-19-2009, 06:17 PM	#1
hkruss Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mobile, Al. Posts: 1,092	Another, "what would YOU do" thread Curious as to your responses. Here is the scenario. Let's say you are in your car at a red light. You are boxed in on all sides so you can't drive off. You have your window down, when you are physically attacked, be it by some road rager, or just a random thug. Some guy is punching you through your open window. He is NOT using anything but his fists. You are unable to call 911 because of the assault. You are unable to get the window up. You are unable to get the seat belt off to move away from him. You ARE armed with a pistol and you DO have access to it. The question is, would you shoot him? The thing I keep thinking about is will a jury think you over-reacted because "the guy had no weapon, just his fists". Personally, I would shoot, for several reasons. One, I consider his fists as weapons, and even though not many people are killed by punches, it does happen, (besides, I'm not about to sit there and take a beat down!). Second, I am totally defensive. He attacked me. Third, I live in a state which has the 'castle doctrine' which says I can use deadly force if attacked in my domicile, and by extention, that includes my car. Thing is, many of you do not have this doctrine in your states, so there would DEFINITELY be legal trouble for you! With that said, what would you do? __________________ obama - "non gratum anus rodentum" -->

10-19-2009, 09:16 PM	#2
JohnTheCalifornian V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Bakersfield Posts: 439	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread Id shoot him. Nothing stopping him from pulling an unseen knife or other weapon to finish you off with. No doubt since you are surrounded by other vehicles with people in them you would have witnesses that could verify you were attacked and were acting in self defense. __________________ Im not a complete idiot.... parts are missing

10-19-2009, 09:19 PM	#3
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,437	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread I would shoot too. If your glocknut, he could simply let one rip and put the poor attacker into a coma. That is why he needs mushrooms every day. It's like reloading __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

10-19-2009, 09:23 PM	#4
Kieran McCaig Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: canada Posts: 1,469	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread How long was the light red,is it changing,I'd grab his hair and drive him down the road at high speed .Or get the wife to shoot him. __________________ My 2 cents worth is only.183 with exc hange.

10-19-2009, 09:40 PM	#5
cycloneman Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Louisiana Posts: 7,437	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread This is kinda what your talking about. I actually made a thread about this a while back. Bad language on this video so you are forwarned. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rsu9Iqxhoo __________________ Who are you going to serve today?

10-20-2009, 07:20 PM	#6
Gun Geezer Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Florida Posts: 1,716	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread This actually happened to my father when I was just a small boy. A guy thought my father had cut him off or something and at the next red light, he pulled up next to us, jumped out of his car and reached in our window and grabbed my dad by the neck and collar and started shaking him. This was in the days before power windows, doorlocks and air-cond and our Buick Super sat high enough that the guy's arms were stretched uncomfortably between the window's edge and the upper door frame. My father, without missing a beat, cranked the window up and held the window crank as tight as he could putting maximum pressure on the guys arms. When the light changed, my dad put the shift lever in gear and started to roll forward. At this time, the guys wife ran out of her car and crying and pleading, begged my father to let him go. I swear the guy filled his pants because from the look on my father's face, I thought he would surely drive off, dragging the guy until his legs wore down to his knees. Dad stopped and let the window down. The guy meekly thanked him, apologized and got back in his car. As we drove away, I could see the guys wife slapping the snot out of him. My father never said a word about it and my mother sat quiet mumbling something about his temper. My dad wasn't very big, but you didn't want to piss him off.

10-20-2009, 07:54 PM	#7
jim summers Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: I reside in southern Indiana, you can almost step out of my back door and be setting on Patoka Lake Posts: 1,058	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread I am not going to let someone just pound on me especially when i have at my disposal that will get him off me. I'll take my chances with a jury i ain't never let someone pound on me and i ain't going to start this late in life. __________________ To Whom Much Is Given, Much Is Required.

10-20-2009, 08:22 PM	#8
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread i would probably shoot him. in kentucky, you only need to be in fear of your life or grave bodily harm. and with my wife in the car, i'd be afraid for her life and, yep... i'd warm my cold hands on the hot barrel as the cops arrived

10-21-2009, 02:11 AM	#9
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,385	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread Drag him into the car and pulverize him. __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

10-21-2009, 07:17 AM	#10
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,799	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread Shooting cannot be the first course of action. I'll take a punch or two to save someone's life, even if it's the life of the guy punching me. I think I would try to warn him (without drawing the weapon), but if he were to continue the attack, draw and fire would likely be a one-step process. Once a gun is actually involved in the situation, I don't want any chance of him getting ahold of it. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

10-21-2009, 08:43 AM	#11
Deathbunny Former Guest Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 290	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread Huh. Tough call. Probably draw, then a gentle application of the front sight/barrel (AKA "pistol whipping"). A steel slide assembly across the bridge of the nose is a real attention-getter. If that doesn't work, "bang".

10-21-2009, 09:02 AM	#12
kutaho Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Peoples Republic of the Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,852	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread It's a bit difficult to punch someone consistently and effectively thru a window. It'd be a good way ta get yer arm broke at the elbow. But depends on the situation. __________________ No man stands in the same river twice If all else fails grab a rock Mi Taku oyasin

10-21-2009, 10:37 AM	#13
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,669	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread I would get a hold of something, his sleeve, finger, anything to were I could get my way to his wrist and hold tight. You have the advantage, your sitting down with a low dead weight center of gravity. With the free hand open the door and shove the door with my shoulder while pulling him in. In a panic they'll try to get away and end up eating the top of the door frame. Done it before and I'll do it again. Guy lost 2 teeth and his buddies respect. Had no idea who he was or why he was so pissed. This was before my CCW.

10-21-2009, 10:47 AM	#14
Jay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Indiana Posts: 1,286	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread IC 35-41-3-2 (Indiana Code) Use of force to protect person or property Sec. 2. (a) A person is justified in using reasonable force against another person to protect the person or a third person from what the person reasonably believes to be the imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person: (1) is justified in using deadly force; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that that force is necessary to prevent serious bodily injury to the person or a third person or the commission of a forcible felony. No person in this state shall be placed in legal jeopardy of any kind whatsoever for protecting the person or a third person by reasonable means necessary. (b) A person: (1) is justified in using reasonable force, including deadly force, against another person; and (2) does not have a duty to retreat; if the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry of or attack on the person's dwelling, curtilage, or occupied motor vehicle. I will shoot him after the first blow. __________________ "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected cannot taste." "USMC 8652, 2531, RVN Jun '67, - May 69" Last edited by Jay; 10-21-2009 at 10:48 AM..

10-21-2009, 11:27 AM	#15
40CalJoe V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: In the middle Posts: 421	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread If I was attacked as described, I would break his nose with a punch if possible, if he came back for more, he would recieve a fatal dose of lead poisoning. Plenty of witnesses. The punch might work in your favor showing deadly force was used after other methods of defense did not work. Might be worth having a can of pepper spray in the car for something like this. __________________ *I will give hussein obama exactly the same respect liberals gave George W Bush: NONE.*

10-24-2009, 06:42 PM	#16
Terry_P Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: NH Posts: 2,513	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread You know the old saying about old guys, don't mess with them they'll just kill you. Defend yourself and sort it out later. I had a guy come up to my car at a light several years ago in a road rage incident and start beating on my window. I pulled a Charter Arms Undercover Special and laid it on the seat. He saw it and said you going to shoot me as he was walking away. He got back in his car and no more road rage. __________________ NRA and NAHC Life "Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms." -Aristotle

10-24-2009, 06:49 PM	#17
Big ugly Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Knoxville Tennessee Contributor Posts: 2,603	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread I have had this happen to wife and me here knoxville. I was in the Suburban so I was a little way off the ground but any way I opened the door hard enough to knock him back and then proceeded to kick his ass, He had a partner in the car with him who started to get out till he seeen the wife with my 41 mag pointed at his dome. After it was over with the attacker gon in his car and sped off and we called 911 and delt with the LEO's. We had lived in Knoxville 3 weeks when this happened. __________________ "You say the Devil made do it with a smile. Raisin' hell and howlin at the moon. Well I'm gonna put your @$$ back in line. I'm gonna scare the Devil out of you." BlackBerry Smoke Song http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R513dA4peMg Nothing is "proof" against a truly talented fool. Swanshot

10-25-2009, 02:29 AM	#18
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,385	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread Tell a man what's right and he knows the difference between right and wrong. Kick his a** for doing wrong and he stops doing wrong for a long time. __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

10-26-2009, 11:08 PM	#19
Lost One V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: SLC, Ut. Posts: 64	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread How I would actually react in that situation I dont know, I do know when going through my course that we where taught NOT to shoot in that situation unless it was a car jacking in which case it is legal to shoot here in Utah (hint hint) this was a course taught by the instructor for the Salt Lake city police dept. a deputy sheriff out of Ogden and the head of the Salt Lake airport police (to bad they went out of business they taught a very good course but it was expensive and no one wanted to pay for good training. I would take the course again if they where still around) Their advise was if the car was able to move and you could not get to your gun to secure him in some way and floor it and smear him between the car and whatever else you could, thats what insurance is for.

10-27-2009, 02:45 AM	#20
Maximilian II Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Northwest GA Posts: 1,385	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread "Oops I ran him over!" I like it. __________________ Karma is just justice, without the satisfaction. And I don't believe in justice. -Joe Sarno, bagman.

10-27-2009, 09:07 PM	#21
Jester Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 44	Re: Another, "what would YOU do" thread In response to the original post: I would not shoot the man without a warning. I would draw the handgun, aim it so he could clearly see it (even to the point of firing a shot off into the roof of my car if I felt it would save my life), then tell him (very quickly) to stop or I would shoot him. If he proceeded to hit me after that, I gave him fair warning and it then became self-defense from a potentially lethal attack.