Specific characteristics for dissecting Bambi

[user]

I'm wondering about the experience folks have had using hunting knives specifically for field skinning, dressing, and for butchering medium game, especially white-tails. I'm thinking of trying to find the best all-around, from skinning and gutting to large joint separation. And it would be really cool if it can fillet a good sized fish, as well.

Edge: hollow ground or flat ground? Ease of sharpening? How well does the edge hold up? Razor sharp v. durable?

Handle: wood, plastic, stag horn, or bone? Grip characteristics while bloody?

Metal: rigid & strong or flexible? Heat-treated? Alloys like 440C stainless, laminated ("Damascus"), or combination (e.g., sintered-edge / powder steel) products?

I've already got religiously held preferences regarding things like full-tang construction, usable length of blade, blade shape & design, etc. But not sufficient actual in the field experience with different kinds of knives to be able to form an intelligent opinion about the three areas I've asked about.

[Deathbunny]

Well, I've got good news and bad news.
The bad -- there is NO one knife that'll do everything.
The good -- You can get ALMOST everything done with 2.

For most medium/large game, 2 knives will do it:
1) Medium blade, hollow ground with a good belly for skinning. Something like a Buck Special http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecent...ages/BU119.jpg
is very versatile. Plus, if it's sharp and you've got steady hands you can (kinda) fillet a fish with one. Well, skin and gut one, anyway. Handle? Up to you, but I like synthetics because they are VERY durable and are impervious to water, blood, etc.

2) A jointer/chopper. A large flat-ground knife with a thick spine, or (my preference) a small hatchet. Chopping thru joints or bones is tiring and messy, but easy with a hatchet. You could use a folding saw, but a hatchet is good for lots of stuff: cutting wood, driving in tent pegs, cracking a skull to get really good antlers, etc. Wood handle is fine, but again, I like synthetic. http://www.buffalogapoutfitters.com/...1622/SW670.gif

Hope this helps!

[Crpdeth]

User

I use a 6" boning knife for everything Here....


If you are looking for a high end, fancy knife, look elsewhere, but this is one (I own two) that I carry in my pack to dress out wild hogs/deer then use the same knife to process the game... Later, the same knife will be used to slice tomatoes/peppers, etc, year after year...

I would never use a hatchet on my harvest... All one has to do is to move the joint around while sliding the blade in there and he will find the tendons, everything will separate beautifully... A little practice eliminates a lot of bone fragments and a messy job.

I use a sharpener like this one.


Like I said, it isn't a fancy knife, but I have fancy knives that are left on the shelf, oh hell I love them, I like to hold them and polish on 'em, but when it comes down to the nut cutting I want something that works and this 'El Cheapo does!

The first one I got was given to me by a friend who worked at Supreme Beef Processors, Inc. Everyone there had one of these knives on their side and used it as their "Do all" blade. As do I.


I really want to buy some nice JA Henckels for the kitchen some day, but for now and for years past, these have been working great.


Crpdeth

[user]

Thanks for the suggestions and information.

One thing really worries me is having my hand slip after blood gets on stuff; I was thinking that wood or staghorn would be best for nonskid handle material.

That 6" boning knife is pretty nearly exactly what I'd envisioned when I first started thinking about this stuff. I was picturing a 7" blade, but the shape is the same. Everything I could find in that shape was a fillet knife which had been made to be thin and flexible.

My wife had gone to Japan on business, so I told her while she was there, to find me one like that, and drew a picture she could take with her. They make some wonderful knives over there that don't get imported for some reason. Descendants of people who made blades for samurai in the Sixteenth Century are now making kitchen knives. Anyway, they (sneeringly) told her that what I had in mind was a German knife. She came back with a six inch tanto style kitchen knife. It slices tomatoes really well, but wasn't what I had in mind.

[Crpdeth]

While I understand your fear in this facet, User, I will assure you that I have never had my hand slip around on the handle, regardless of what part of the process I was involved in, which as you have mentioned, does get a little messy...


Crpdeth

[user]

1. Any experience with the Fallkniven F4 "Butchering/Filleting" knife? Looks a lot like the Forschner boning knife; I'm thinking it's more durable, will keep an edge better and have better heft. Besides, my supplier doesn't carry the Forschner boning knife. (Btw, I get a good deal on knives through my work, so while there is a pretty big difference in cost, the more expensive blade is well worth it in terms of value. Anybody want anything in particular, send me an email, I'll tell you what I can get it to you for.)

Here are some others on my shopping list, and I would certainly welcome any information, criticism, or enlightenment:

2. Boker "Plus Collection Magnum" - scratch that one - having gotten a better look at it, I see it's not practical at all; maybe a good stabbing weapon, but not useful in the field.

3. Puma IP Catamount II : Blade Length: 4.4". Blade Steel/hardness: 440C/ 57-60 HRC. Blade Thickness: 4 mm. Overall Length: 8.7". Scales: Olivewood. Somewhat redundant with #2, similar shape, less of a drop-point, and three inches shorter blade.

and

4: Puma Wildcat Staghorn: Blade Length: 4 3/5". Blade Steel/hardness: 440C/ 57-60 HRC. Blade Thickness: 4 mm. Overall Length: 9 1/6". Scales: Staghorn. Also a medium width blade with something of a swept appearance. Sharpened on both edges at the point.

I really don't want to have to haul a butcher's shop around with me - the woods I live in have no roads and I'm on foot. So I want to take as little weight in with me, do as much processing as I can "on site", and not have to carry too much "dead weight" out. So I basically see it as a need for a knife that I can use to puncture, scrape, slice, cut, bone, & gut, and all in a way that won't let nasty stuff get on the meat. I'm thinking the combination of 1 and any one of the others would do what I want. I particularly like the 440C steel, stainless that's about as hard as any carbon steel. All are around seventy-five bucks except the staghorn which is over a hundred and thirty bucks. It's the value that's important to me, not necessarily the lowest price (I'm not going to be buying knives every week like I do gasoline).

I don't like the weight of the Boker plus, or the cost of the Puma Wildcat. But I like the length of the blade of the Boker, and it would appear that the texture and porosity of the Puma Wildcat would make it easier to hold with slimy hands.

None of these are the prybar/hammer/axe kind of knives some folks want in a hunting knife.

[user]

Ok, I made a command decision. I've placed an order for the following:

1. Puma Wildcat Staghorn, which I see as most effective for skinning and slicing.

2. Fallkniven S1 Forest Knife, black w/sheath, good for general use as well as boning, puncturing hide, and cutting around bambi's delicate parts.

[carver]

For thousands of years, man has used flaked stone to skin, and butcher game. Today we have good steal knives. I skin, and butcher at home. The knife I take with me on the hunt is for field dressing the game only, and I have done this with a pen knife. My point here is that any good knife will get the job done. You don't have to spend a lot of money, but if you have it to spend, then buy what you want.

[44alltheway]

I just use one knife to field dress and then take the rest home. The one I use has a guthook that really helps. http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecent...mages/691n.jpg
I once had the point of a blade go into the lower gut and after that I always used the gut hook!

[user]

Damitall!~ I forgot all about the flaked stone! And I've got plenty of rocks laying all around for free!

Reminds me of a Star Trek episode, "City on the Edge of Forever": Spock says, "I am endeavoring, Madam, to construct a mnemonic memory circuit using stone knives, and bearskins."

[45nut]

6" curved boning knife

I use a Buck 104 and a Scrade with a gut hook in the field for the gutting, skinning and quartering. Once I get home, my 2 6" boning knives reduce my deer to roasts and burger in not time. I can bone out a ham in 45 minutes and a shoulder in about 20. I could do it with field knives, but why when the boning knives work so well.

Crpdeth is right on!!!!!!!!!!!

[user]

Well, 45Nut and Crpdeth, what do you think of this one:

Fallkniven F4 "Butchering/Filleting Knife"



Overall Length: 10 3/8 in.
Blade Length: 6 1/8 in.
Blade Steel: Lam. VG10 Stainless Steel
Handle Material: Thermorun E
Blade Hardness: 59HRC

[45nut]

Looks good to me, but I like a curved blade better. You will find that most folks that do or did butcher for a living like the curved blade. It seems to me that as you make your stroke with your knife hand, the curved blade gives you a little more margin of error in order to keep your hand holding the meat/fat/silverskin out of harm's way

[Crpdeth]

I have to apologize first, User because in my haste I sent you a link to a straight blade, not until 45nut's post did I realize what I had done and I'm glad you didn't jump up and buy the wrong ones... Although, my Dad was a butcher for many years and I acquired one of his straight blade boning knives (wooden handle) and I like it... Just not as well as the slight curve.

Heres a link to the one's I have. http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=749

The first two knives you posted are good lookers... I wouldn't mind owning them, but for a do all knife I'd go for that Fallkniven F4 first and see how you like it... If you buy that one, I'd sure like a Sit-Rep on it because I'd like to have it... What is the purchase price on that?

BTW, going back to having your hand slip on the handle... I'd be much more careful about which buddy you allow to help you undress the game than I would about that. Your friends who wouldn't hurt you for the world will slap you across the back of the hand with a razor sharp blade in an instant.

Hurts too!!!


Here's a pic of my little helpers that I just snagged for ya.

Good luck in your search.

Crpdeth

[user]

Here's what I ordered, in addition to the two mentioned above:

6" straight, stiff, Forschner boning knife, rosewood handle:


and 8" curved Forschner breaking knife, rosewood handle:


I like to dig around the bone with the handle parallel to the bone, so I opted for the straight blade. The breaking/quartering knife, though is curved, so what I can't reach with the 6", the 8" ought to handle, and I can use that one for slicing up larger chunks.

And if I find that these are less than satisfactory in the field, they'll live in the kitchen, and I'll get something else. I'm already thinking about carving a turkey with that breaking knife at thxgiving, mainly to see if I can shock the parents in law by slicing the turkey up with a scimitar (perhaps shouting something like, "Allah be praised!").

[user]

Forgot to answer the question:

The Puma Wildcat w/staghorn handgrip w/leather sheath is $133.79, and the Fallkniven S1 in black w/Zytel sheath is $144.17. That doesn't include shipping, though they can go in a priority mail box for about eight bucks.

The F4 is six oz., 2.5mm thick, 6" blade (nominally, actually 150 mm), and costs 76.57. That's a good bit more than either of the Forschner knives which cost in the low $20's and low $30's respectively.

A problem seems to have occurred with the order of the Wildcat, though - I wasn't charged for it, and it wasn't shipped. My mistake - it wasn't in stock. So I substituted this one, "Puma Outdoor w/Olivewood Handle" which is cheaper, $103.17, but is made with the same blade.

[Oldeyes]

You have made some good choices for the stated deer processing tasks that you wish to accomplish. I also share your concern regarding the potential slippage in my hand of a blood covered knife handle. So, many years ago I decided to explore the cutlery that professional butchers and meat processors use. Many of the professional butchering knives can be had in a model with molded in hand guards to prevent either push or push and pull butchering action slippage. In my quest for a value oriented working knife solution I eventually settled on the Dexter-Russel knife line as they are very high commercial quality, have excellent handles and they are made out of excellent steel that holds a superb working edge even in particularly nasty processing applications. I have a couple of high line quality and very nice specialty knives, but when it comes down to actual production butchering it is almost impossible to beat the entire line of Dexter-Russel knives, plus they are by comparison VERY affordable. Dexter-Russel also has a truly mind boggling array of specialty butchering knives to choose from.

http://www.dexter-russell.com/produc...ing_knives.htm

[user]

That's a good source, OldEyes, thanks. They do have just about everything known to man by way of knives. One thing bothered me, was that they were pretty light on specifications.

Well, the Fallkniven S1 appeared yesterday, very nice with a dangling-from-the-belt type leather sheath. Rubbery handle is very non-slip, feels good in the hand, despite the squarish grip. Well balanced and perfect length for optimal control.

The Forschner boning knife and the breaking/quartering knife showed up today. I'm thinking of sanding the glaze off the rosewood handles. The breaking knife, eight inch blade, is slightly flexible, and ought to be perfect for poking down into joints and slicing through shoulder muscles. When I got it out, I'd been to the high school waiting to pick up my son; he looked at it and said, "What's the scimitar for, you goin' to war with the A-Rabs?"

Found a good, short discussion on the subject, that pretty much reinforced my views; it's in a book by John Weiss, Butchering Deer: The Complete Manual Of Field Dressing, Skinning, Aging, And Butchering Deer At Home. Take a look at http://www.borders.com/online/store/...sku=0970749376, click the "look inside" tab and go to page 22, "Equipment".

I've also decided to get a KaBar Becker Tac Tool; not sure whether the emergency seat belt slicer will double as a gut-hook, but the thing sure looks useful. (That's general farm use, not use on Bambi. I suppose if I could sneak up on Bambi, I could split his skull with the thing.)



Also a KaBar hatchet. I don't like using saws on things I plan to eat. I prefer to split the sternum and pelvis and chop off the hooves. (Not a trophy hunter - strictly utilitarian.)



I think I've got everything I need, now. (Though there's a very slightly used Weatherby Mark V in .30-06 that's been calling to me from the other side of the Commonwealth.)

[Crpdeth]

User...


Sounds good! I think you'll be pleased with the purchases you've made. I've recently helped my Dad do a little work at his house and came across a knife similar to the 8" Breaking knife you posted, from his butchering days. I may have to steal it.

Oh, and the Becker Tac Tool... I think you are going to LOVE it.


Here's mine.


Crpdeth

[user]

Thanks - I got the hatchet and the tac-tool in the mail today. I think the stuff I've gotten will pretty much set me up for life.

My father always bought junk because it was cheap, and then complained when it failed to deliver according to his expectations. I learned from his example to buy stuff that's good value = an appropriate price for something that's really going to do what's needed and to last.

I'm pretty happy with this collection. I'd rather haul a couple of pounds of steel into the woods with me so that I don't have to haul out a hundred and fifty pounds of bone and gristle I don't need.

[Crpdeth]

I agree and have to admit that my Dad is the same in many respects... Well, it depends on what he is buying.

I was once helping him trim some shrubs on his place and he was complaining about some "loppers" that he was using... I pointed to the 3.99 price tag still stuck to it and replied "Here's your problem" LOL! He had bought them at a pawn shop that gets in some cheap tools on a truck. We got a good laugh out of that one, but the truth is that you usually get what you pay for. I suggested the Forschners because they just simply work, year after year, better than some of the higher priced blades that I've tried.

Anyway, looks like you have a nice collection now and I expect to see some pictures of your butchering skills this season... I hope to post up some of mine as well!


Crpdeth

[wpage]

I always carry my multitool & when hunting a Buck 6" blade for the work on whitetails...

[user]

Originally Posted by wpage

I always carry my multitool & when hunting a Buck 6" blade for the work on whitetails...

What kind of "multitool", and what do you find that use it for most often?