If the stuff really hits the fan.

[ski9393]

I love surplus rifles for alot of reasons. Cost, effectiveness, but mostly reliability. Don't get me wrong, I have Savage that is just great, she's never given me any problems. But if the stuff really hits the fan, I will take the roughest surplus rifle over a brand new sporter in a heartbeat. I think this because if you need to sustain a rate of fire, I just don't think that a hunting rifle is gonna be made for it, I might be wrong, but I believe that a rifle that is tried and proven on the battlefield, like a k-98, SMLE, '03, or a Mosin, is the way to go, unless you can get your hands on an M14 or FAL or a Kalishnicov(spell check please), these are the kind of rifles I would want in this kind of scenario. Just my thoughts.

[308 at my gate]

I love my non military bolt action rifles and it only takes one shot to get the job done.

[mrkirker]

Originally Posted by 308 at my gate

I love my non military bolt action rifles and it only takes one shot to get the job done.

Right on, 308!

[carver]

I tend to lean to the modern fire arms. Not to say that the military surplus rifles won't get the job done, because they will. The biggest reason for my choice is caliber. .44 Mag in pistol, and rifle. .357 Mag in pistol and rifle, etc. If the SHTF, and you have to move out, ammo that will work in a hand gun, and or, rifle/carbine, would be so much easier to carry. I know that the distance the military rifles will shoot is so much greater than the pistol type ammo. However, if I have to bug out, and I probably won't, I would be headed for the deep woods. There shots of over 100 yds are hard to find, so I don't think I would need a rifle that would shoot out to 1000 yds. If I lived in open country I'm sure that I would have a different out look! Still, I would love to own one of these fine military rifles, and have told my wife that I would like a K-98 for Christmass! Keep your fingers crossed for me!!

[Helix_FR]

I understand your way of thinking. An older surplus gun is going to be more tolerant of the nasty elements that come in to play. I have both military surplus and modern rifles. All shoot very well but I don't think my Ruger M77 is going to be as tolerant of getting mud and water and other crap in it and still function say as my SMLE or Type99. All of them could get the job done but exposed to what? I have my choices of what I would go with. One of them being a Walther K43. Collectors value is high but WTSHTF it ain't gonna matter anymore. That old girl slings some hefty lead and does it very well.

[45nut]

The old battle rifles would indeed perform as needed, but I don't have any. My Dad has our Garand and I have my M-1 Carbine. Plus, my deer rifles, M-4 and AK, and of course, my .22's.

Me and my Ruger #77 are one shot, one kill for a long time.

[ski9393]

Once again, just my thoughts. I can get on board with what carver is saying, about having only one type of ammo for his sidearm and long arm. Johnlives4christ, I'm with you on being able to arm others, something as simple as a Mosin would probably be prime, because of it's primitive workings, and it's toughness in crumby conditions, that would be a good one, as far as the it only takes one shot to get the job done, this is true, usually, but in the circumstances I had in mind, you might need several of those one shots, I just don't know that a modern rifle will hold up, once again though, I have a .30-'06 sporter that I love to death, but I would choose my mosin over it, or maybe use the '06 until it breaks and go to the MN afterwards. M4's and AK's are proven, they are used everyday in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Garand is a horse, it was used in the Jungles throughout the Pacific Theater, all over Europe, and in some of the coldest environments imaginable, i.e. Chosin Reservoir Campaign, as was the M-1 Carbine, however it ran into freezing issues, but I think that graphite fixed that. I didn't even consider collecting value, I mean what's the point in collecting if you're not gonna be there to enjoy it. Ok I don't think I left anyone out.

[Laufer]

The SKS or Mini 30 with a larger magazine would work at a self-defense distance, although many people in real life civilian situations have displayed a handgun to resolve situations, due to better portability.

My LE "Jungle Carbines" are also very handy as back-up to semi-auto rifles, as I have no handguns.

One shot from the "Jungle Carbine" grabbed the attention of a "Wildlife/Fisheries" Officer.
It sounded to him like a black powder rifle (they must be really loud). Weeks ago he was looking for people who violated the hunting regs.

[Alpo]

I have seen the “arm my neighbors” put forth on several boards. Back when you could get an SKS for 80 bucks, “Buy a bunch of ‘em, so I can arm my neighbors, in case the world goes to hell”. 75-dollar Yugos? Same thing. Buy a half-dozen or so, along with case upon case of that 35-dollar-a-case ammo. “To arm the neighbors”. Now the 50-dollar Moisins. But I’ve actually given that some thought.

First, anyone that is really, as john put it, a “friend of the Constitution” probably already has a gun. And if he has a gun, he ain’t gonna want that. You come up to me with a 5-foot long piece of “commie crud”, that looks like it was found in the muck when they were digging a new foundation at a construction site in Stalingrad, and tell me I should use it, instead of my Browning BLR. Now, my BLR is a fine gun, but it was never designed for shooting a thousand rounds a day, every day for a week. The Moisin is a better choice. But I ain’t’ gonna believe you, and am gonna stick with my Browning, until it lets me down in the middle of a firefight.

Then you have the people that don’t own a gun because they don’t want a gun because they think the police are gonna protect them and that guns are bad and that only criminals and gangbangers have guns and that guns are bad (oh, I already said that, didn’t I?). Then, when the fecal matter strikes the rotary oscillator, he comes running up and says, “Gimme a gun”. Screw you. You don’t know anything about guns, you’re afraid of guns, you still think the cops are gonna protect you, and if I give you a gun you will probably shoot me in the back with it if one of the blue-helmets offers you nylons or Hershey bars.

Lastly you have the group that wants a gun, but is either too young, too broke, or too henpecked to have one. These people, most likely, have no experience with guns, because they don’t own one, so giving them a 5-foot long rifle that will kick the heck out of ‘em doesn’t seem like the best choice.

[Keystone]

Alpo, +1 to that. I like your thinking there.

[carver]

For those of you that perfer the older sytle military weapons, where will you get more ammo? Once you BUG out, you can only carry a certain ammount of ammo. You probably won't be able to scroung, or scavage ammo for your gun. I might not either, but then again, ammo for .38/.357, shouldn't be too hard to find. Ammo for the .44spc/.44Mag might be another story, but I would be willing to bet that I would have a better chance of resupply in ammo than someone carrying a military type rifle, except maybe in .06. As to the sustained rate of fire, well, if you are limited to the amount of ammo you can carry, then sustained fire won't last long enough to shoot out any modern rifle. I won't be bugging out myself, but staying right here at home where I have many choices of caliber, and plenty of ammo for each.

[ski9393]

As far as arming those without much experience with firearms, a simplistic rifle would be the way to go. Even if it does have some recoil. If it is tough and easy to use, then someone without much gun knowledge would have a better chance of becoming effective with it quick. As far as getting shot in the back for a hersey bar, well I guess you have to hope for the best sometimes. Resupply, that would be an issue. The idea is to have a cache of ammo hidden somewhere. And also, while this is opposite the idea of a rifle that is less likely to fail, the chance of surviving long enough to need a resupply is slim, there is a chance, just a slim one. So that being said, when the poop starts flying, have a gun, any gun, and some ammo. Because you aren't likely to live long enough to see your BLR fail under battlefield conditions, forget about it and use what you have. Hope that you did something worthy of getting into heaven, and try to inflict as much damage on the enemy as possible.

[Laufer]

If people need to evacuate their homes with almost no warning, how much gas will be in the car's tank for the required fuel range + reserve? If they have no family or second home within that range which has food/fuel, where do they go? No gas to buy-then walk?

Insulin for my wife will be the most critical item, as our drugstores will quickly be ransacked if anarchy spreads to outermost suburban areas, and we have no relatives in the area.

The choice of 4,000 (+) rds for the SKS (I have more), or 2,000 for the LE Jungle Carbine won't matter at all if no pharmaceuticals can be bought.
If your families require no medicines to survive you are very fortunate.

[ski9393]

That's another good point. I have no clue how to rebutt that one either. I guess ransacking the drugstore yourself wouldn't be a bad idea, and because you guys truly need it and aren't grabbing handfuls of pills for recreation, I wouldn't loose sleep over it.

Gas, if there is no electricity, the gas won't be sold. Maybe you might know a farmer or someone who owns alot of equiptment who has a tank you can barter with or take it forcefully from someone else, I don't know. My destination would only be about 40 miles from where I live, and that's if I decided leaving was a good idea. In my vehicle I can get that far on about 3 gallons unless I need to use 4x4, then it would be about 5 or 6 gallons.

My parents live on the family farm, that wouldn't be a bad place to be in a crisis, we have 2 clean streams,a pond full of fish, cattle, woods full of game, permanent structures. The only problem would be my parents' modern home. No electricity, no heat. The old farmhouse is still standing, it has a woodstove. Wouldn't take long to run a brush up the chimney and get to cooking. The only problem with that is how close to the road it is, could invite unwanted visitors. In this kind of scenario, for every solution you come up with, it's like you create new problems.

[pistolero57]

In a real SHTF scenario just having guns and ammo ain't gonna cut it (unless you're a bandito and you plan to steal everything you need.) You need to prepare in advance in every way: 1) spiritually 2) with lot of food, 3) with extra gas or diesel fuel, 4) with firewood or propane, 5) with a plan! The most important decision is whether to stay and dig in or to evacuate. IMHO the best plan is usually to stay put and fortify. But if you happen to live in an already crime-ridden area then it might make better sense to cut and run.

[chuckusaret]

I live in an area of Florida that is prone to having a few hurricanes every few years and ones survival is based on how well prepared you are. I have about 45 days of rations, mostly MRE's, and other food items, fuel, propane etc. to support my immediate 8 family members. I also have a cache of guns and ammo that is sufficient to ward off any BG's for several months. I also have an enclosed trailer and 4X4 pickup to transport the survival cache if evacuation would become necessary. I am more afraid of the president and his henchmen than I am of the bad guys, I know what to expect from the bad guys but I don't know what to expect of the messiah and what action(s) he will take against us.

[pistolero57]

Originally Posted by chuckusaret

I live in an area of Florida that is prone to having a few hurricanes every few years and ones survival is based on how well prepared you are. I have about 45 days of rations, mostly MRE's, and other food items, fuel, propane etc. to support my immediate 8 family members. I also have a cache of guns and ammo that is sufficient to ward off any BG's for several months. I also have an enclosed trailer and 4X4 pickup to transport the survival cache if evacuation would become necessary. I am more afraid of the president and his henchmen than I am of the bad guys, I know what to expect from the bad guys but I don't know what to expect of the messiah and what action(s) he will take against us.

You are forrtunate on the one hand and very unfortunate on the other. You are fortunate because, in Florida, after how many hurricanes since Andrew(?), people probably won't look at you crosseyed when they find out you are stocked up. You are unfortunate because...well just read the novel "Alas Babylon" and you'll get the picture. If you're in north Florida you can easily escape to/hide out in Georgia or Alabama if necessary. If you're in south Florida OMG! Between Miami-Ft. Lauderdale and Tampa-St. Pete, unless you can masquerade as an alligator, you'll be toast.

[oscarmayer]

this is a tough question. right now i have a lever action in 45colt and a single action army colt in 45 colt that i would grab first. not the greatest choices i know but for me the handiest. i would insist my wife if i didn't elect to leave her behind , to grab my hi-power, it has served me well for the past 30 plus years on various different continents and the ammo is plentyful no matter where you go. and i would insist she humped my ishapore enfield in 308 along with 2 bandoleers of ammo. reliable as they come and battle tested.but thats how i feel this week next week i might change my mind

[new308handloader]

1 friend right here and ready.....doesn't eat much and can shoot straight....just provide a battle ready rifle!

[piglatinhater]

Aks all the way. Theres a reason you see the rest of the world using them.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by piglatinhater

Aks all the way. Theres a reason you see the rest of the world using them.

One reason why the rest of the world uses them is because they are less expensive to produce. They are also a lot more durable and can adapt to different conditions easier. I'd say in terms of effectiveness and overall accuracy and performance, the M16/M4 is a better weapon. I mean really each has their pros and cons, but I'd say the M4 takes the Gold.

[pawn]

SKS is probably the world's most under-rated battle rifle. IMHO, it is a better rifle than the AK (aside the AK having detachable mags). 7.62 x 39 can be had much cheaper than .223

Opinions are like bellybuttons, we all have one. SHTF, I would opt for an SKS and put the money saved into ammo. Could be wrong, I frequently am.

[buckeye14]

I agree with PAWN the SKS is under rated. Cost is low, ammo is cheap, and easy to find because of all the AK's. I also like my MINI 14, it's accurate and lite weight. These are guns for the field. For home, .357.....and 12 gauge.
what more do you need? buckeye14

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by buckeye14

what more do you need?

Remington 700 30-06 with a nice scope. Long range sniper shots.

[cycloneman]

Most of the ammo i see in 7.62 x 39 is of the non reload type. Should shtf this ammo will dry up. Importation of this ammo will cease and probably long before shtf will happen. Domestic manufactures will not care about this ammo since they will probably be making 223 and 308's out the a$$. I think ammo is the biggest reason for your decission on what gun you may want to have. A gun without ammo is a paperweight.

I like the way some people think. I see it all the time. A guy buys a pistol at a cheaper price and says something like "well I bought this cheapie cause I am only going to carry it in the car". What this person is actually saying is that in the worst position I could possibly be in, I will accept a cheap POS to defend my life with. Think about it, does your life not deserve the best you can afford? Also does your life not deserve a weapon you will allways be able to find ammo for?

How much ammo is enough? When you think you have that one figured out, you dont.