Help! Old Muzzleloader Rifle I.D with detailed Pics!

[deadin]

Well as far as your question on two triggers goes. It's a double set trigger. When you cock the hammer, you then pull the back trigger. This "sets" the front trigger and it's a "hair trigger. It's adjusted for a very light pull.

rammed,
I have two Ohio Half Stocks that you have to set the trigger before you cock the hammer. There is no half-cock notch. At first I thought that something was wrong with the lock, but have learned since that this is not unusual with some original Ohio rifles.

One of my rifles is unmarked and the other was made by a 'smith named William Kail from Tuscarawas County, Ohio. The lock on each is a "store-bought" lock marked "Riddle" and as far as I can discover probably came from a supplier in Chicago. Kail was a farmer/gunsmith from the 1850's thru the 1880-90's. (Farmed in the Spring/Summer/Fall and made a few rifles in the Winter.) The Kail is .29 or .30 caliber which is unusually small for the period.

[Lowsonoma21]

Hmmm. Well I didn't expect that. If it's original I will be getting in touch with some
people in town here, or maybe someone on here has threads on how to
restore/refinish. I'm going to re-search a lot more before I take action. Im going to make sure it gets restored right, and keep it for some time. I was planning on refinishing it and holding on to it for a bit, even when I thought it was a "junker". I will let you know what I do. My first shot is to clean that barrel. Since the barrel is not original, maybe I should just replace it as apposed to clean it. Then again I like the vintage style look, and the fact that it has been handled, but still looks good. All will be taken into consideration. The stock could use a touch up as well. I want to get some good brass cleaner and shine it. I don't want it to shine brand new no marks tho, like I said I like the vintage look. I will see how or who can get the lock shined up with out damaging the art. If you have any pointers feel free to join in, I'm always open for ideas!

Thanks a lot for the help Doug I appreciate it.

[rammed]

Deadin

The explanation on the set trigger I used was for a modern set trigger. With those you can set the gun off by pulling the front trigger without setting the rear trigger. Some old original locks did not have a "fly" on the tumbler or a half cock position. The fly would cam the sear past the half cock notch when using a set trigger. By eliminating the half cock notch you didn't need the fly. The set trigger also has fewer parts on old originals.

Your rifles sound real nice. I have two that work the way you described. You have to cock them before you can set the trigger. 30 cal sounds right for an original that hasn't been with. Mine are 32 and 38 cal. Small cal is where the term squirrel rifle came from.

Lowsonoma21

You don't have to restore anything on the lock. It looks fine and is in good shape just lub it.

[Lowsonoma21]

I just ripped appart my friends mossberg 500, stripped it, stained n finished it to a darker older style finish, and painted the metal pieces flat black, it looks really good. Im going to get my old boss to carve a bear on the left side, and his name on the other side. I will post pics of it. Just a fun project to do.

It inspired me to refinish mine. So im stripping it, and finishing it all tonight. Not going to paint the barrel, just remove the rust, and oil it. Hopefully polish up that metal, I have a bunch of polish, but if needed I'll run to the store to get some for the brass.

[Lowsonoma21]

went better then i thought - brass polished up nice, wood stain is almost at what i want - still not done of coarse. I want the stock to be darker. 33 new pictures up on my page:

http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/lowsonoma21/

[jack404]

looking good took a trip to Pbucket

nice eh



disks sent today including wheel lock plans and info

hope it helps

cheers

jack

[rammed]

Looking good. Since you got the breech plug out, how does the rifling look?

[Lowsonoma21]

Thanks Jack -

The rifling looked perfect, no wear in the barrel at all it seems. When I cleaned it there

was little to no blackpowder coming out, just orange in color from the rust. It looks like

it is in mint condition. I thought the barrel was a smooth bore till I looked down it.

I put some polish on the lock, and it did clean it up a tiny bit. Nothing into detail though, I still gotta figure out how to bring out the art in it.

Would it be a bad decision to paint the barrel? I did my friends shotgun flat black and it

looks really good. I saw one online with a black barel and it looked good. If it

depreciates the value I wont touch it. I also put some compound on the barrel and it

shined up pretty good. The rust remover didn't take too much off, but enough to notice.




What would be the best way to apply the varnish? I am good with a rag or sponge, but I do want a perfect finish. Should I get a spray gun and litely touch it?

Thanks for checkin it out - i'll work on it more later on this week

[Pustic]

That gun looks like a Hawken type or some type of a plains rifle.

[Shooter45]

Look again, Not even close.

[rammed]

Brown the barrel and tang. Google plum brown. Use Boiled linseed oil for a finish on the stock.

[Lowsonoma21]

Thats a good idea Doug, the tang would make the barrel look good, maybe match the wood more. I looked it up and its only like 10$, but I dont think they ship outside the states, Ill see if we have some around here.

I dont know about the Linseed oil though. It does do a spectacular job. But it is a little more effort, and has to be applied generously through out the years correct? My plan with the gun is to finish it and mount it on my wall or put on display. Considering that, do you think I'll have to apply it alot when its just sitting, not really being handled? Its hard to get that stuff to dry I heard aswell. Although it does work great on solid woods.

There is some stuff called “Watco's danish oil”. It penetrates like an oil finish but has a resin mixed in to form a nice build up that hardens in the grain of the wood. Seals and polishes nicely, without the long drying time of plain oil finishes, and never gets gummy (unless you put too much on at once, or have soft woods). What do you think about that stuff?

I'm in no hurry to throw the coat on, i wanna make sure i use the right stuff.

What did you think about the brass clean up? I had some compound layin around, it seems to of worked well. Theres probably a chemical I can soak it in to really clean it up.

You told me to just lub the lock, it turned out alright. Im still gunna take it to someone for a more detailed clean. I ran over it again and got a little more out of the engraving, not too noticable i dont think though.

The sights were definitely added on later. In the pics you can see the bottom side of the barrel, there is the same inlay for the sights. It looks like they flipped the barrel around and mounted new sights. I kinda like that flip up though it looks cool for display aswell.

That little peice of alluminum at the tip of the stock/forearm needs to be shined, its got some stuff stuck on it now, with black marks.

I got some more pics that should display better, after i had cleaned every piece. Tried to get a little fancy with a better display lol. Enjoy!


http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc67/lowsonoma21/

[rammed]

That's not aluminum on the stock. It's poured pewter. The black is normal tarnish. Here is some pics of a light bench rifle I built a few years ago. Barrel and lock was browned with plum brown. The stock finish is linseed oil.

[Lowsonoma21]

That's nice. How long did it take you to finish that? I'd love to put one together like that. Did you make the stock yourself as well? or get someone to make it. I like the finish. That linseed does look good for sure. How much work was it to get that finish? Some people do it for a year, just applying the coats. I'll look into it more. Nice pics

[rammed]

I've got 60 to 80 hours in that one. The walnut was harvested about 15 years ago. I air dried it for about 5 years before started using it. All the parts came from Friendship Indiana. I never build one from a "kit". The stock has about 6 coats of linseed oil. Have not done anything else to it since I finished it. It holding up very good. The brass isn't shiny anymore either. I add a little japan drier to the linseed oil. It helps cure the finish. I paint the oil on with a brush for the first coat and keep adding it to it for a couple of hours. Let the wood soak up all it wants. Then use an old towel to wipe off the excess. set it aside for a couple of days. The other coats are applied with my bare hand. Just a little oil and rub until you feel heat being generated. This helps the oil polymerize and dry. Leave it set a couple of days and recoat. When you are pleased with the finish just stop. Depending on the number of coats you can go from a satin finish to a high gloss.

[Uncle Miltie]

The original rifle in question appears to be a built-up rifle, using old parts. This was very common during the earlier years of the resurgence in muzzleloader shooting, before there were the plethora of suppliers making parts that came in later years.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Miltie.