slightly used or new? Please help - The Firearms Forum

garydude · 02-05-2010, 02:18 PM

Here's my dilema; I'm in the market for a 1911. I've shot several, including para big hawg, kimber and SA. I have $800 to spend on a 1911, and have narrowed search to two guns. I found a kimber custom II new for this price as well as a used smith wesson 1911 stainless. The smith clearly has more upgrades, and is a much more attractive gun, but I don't know much of their quality and feel, and importantly, reliability. Can you tell me which gun you would chose? The smith is in a pawn store, and I feel a little weird about buying from them; the kimber is in gun store. THANKS!!

Dirtypacman · 02-05-2010, 03:43 PM

I have a SW 1911PD and its a great gun... that being said I want a Kimber myself (as they do not sell them in MA)

So I would opt for the Kimber but maybe for the wrong reasons - as stated not on the approved roster in MA.

techoca · 02-06-2010, 03:21 PM

Smith and Wesson makes a fine 1911; I carry one everyday.

zb338 · 02-06-2010, 03:33 PM

I have the S&W stainless target model.
It is an excellent gun in every way. If
you don't trust the pawn shop then have
a gunsmith friend or someone you know
look at the gun. If you don't have someone like
that then leave it go.
Zeke

garydude · 02-07-2010, 11:46 AM

smith wesson +2 kimber +1 Both appear to be exceptional firearms and I would like the fairy gunmother to drop another 800 in my lap so I could get both. I will run down to the stores and check them both again, as I didn't scrutinize trigger pull and feel as well as I ought to have. Thank you for your input, and if you have more please do share. I have two weeks before my forty fifth birthday, so I still have a little time.

mrkirker · 02-07-2010, 02:55 PM

I've a S&W 1911, purchased shortly after they were offered. I like the gun. It's always been a reliable firearm for me. My brother likes his Kimber. Really, it'd be tough to go wrong in your choices! What a wonderful delimma!

What is the stigma about a pawn shop purchase vs. a gun store purchase? Would you feel the same if the potential purchase was from a private party?

CampingJosh · 02-07-2010, 05:09 PM

A pawn shop that sells guns has an FFL, so it's a gun shop, too. I wouldn't worry about that aspect.

garydude · 02-09-2010, 02:14 PM

Well I'm leaning more towards the SW stainless. I researched the serial # through the good folks at SW, and they told me it is a 108284 sku model 1911 manufactured in Oct 2004. It has adjustable sights, ambidextrous safety, polished port and 8 round mag. Getting a bit nervous now, as I get closer to jumping. Still sound like a good deal?

Jim K · 02-09-2010, 03:37 PM

The only advantage of a gun shop is that most either have a gunsmith on site or one they can send work to. IME, many (most?) pawnshops don't have that service.

For practical purposes, there is no difference between new and slightly used since the first shot you fire will make the "new" gun "slightly used." You don't indicate the relative prices, but given anything like a comparable price, I would opt for the S&W. S&W has great customer service and that would make up for a gun shop having a gunsmith available.

Jim

TheGunClinger · 02-09-2010, 05:00 PM

Which one feels best in your hot sweaty hands? If the Smith actually is only slightly used and has more upgrades and looks better (to you) then wherin lies the problem?
You have to remember that once you have been bitten by the 1911 bug, you will have to have more of them. As there are kabillions of them out there start saving your pennies for the next one. Cant have too many as I was told on this forum when I was contemplating getting my first 1911. I only have three so far

but I am saving pennies for #4.

garydude · 02-09-2010, 05:08 PM

Good point Jim; hadn't thought of it that way. The new kimber is $800 out the door, whereas the smith is $850 out the door. Guys at smith and wesson said that gun lists for around $1400 new.

Jim K · 02-09-2010, 08:18 PM

For all practical purposes, the same price, so I would go with the S&W.

Jim

sweetokole · 02-09-2010, 08:34 PM

Wow... tough call the suspense is killing me... can't wait to hear what the final decision turns out to be... and how the decision is made... should I tune in tomorrow? the Phantom knows... or is it the Shadow?

garydude · 02-09-2010, 10:22 PM

Well I got called for jury duty tomorrow, so if I don't get picked, then I should be able to go get it then. I hope to get out of it by telling the judge something real clever, like "toss all commies in jail-there's one right there!" or some such nonsense so I can get on with the important things in life like getting my 1st 1911!!! You all have been very helpful and I do appreciate it. I'll let you know what I end up with, and hopefully will post some pics if I can figure it out!

garydude · 02-10-2010, 04:54 PM

Drumroll Please... Here's my new addition! I went with the smith, took a risk because of the feel and fit and finish of the gun, and importantly because of the very good advice received here. My deepest thanks to all that contributed. I got the gun for 800 + tax, and the store threw in a box of ammo. It only came with the one original clip, so store dude gave me another clip that hopefully works with the gun. I plan on shopping at smith and wesson to get another magazine. Now can't wait to go out and try it, see if I can hit that elusive "side of a barn" with the thing, smiling the whole time!
THANKS AGAIN,
Gary

TheGunClinger · 02-10-2010, 07:42 PM

Nice piece, good choice! Now go get some Wilson Combat mags.

techoca · 02-11-2010, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garydude

It only came with the one original clip, so store dude gave me another clip that hopefully works with the gun. I plan on shopping at smith and wesson to get another magazine.

Nice 1911, you will be happy with it.

1+ to what Thegunclinger said.

Don't waste your hard earned money on Smith magazines, just order you a couple of Wilson Combat magazines. I prefer the # 47 original Wilson Rogers 7 round magazines; they are ultra reliable.

garydude · 02-11-2010, 07:17 PM

Thanks techoca and Thegunclinger, I do appreciate advice. Newb that I am, I did not know that one of the mags that came with it was a wilson combat, so I got lucky there, and just ordered another one from them (about $40). I went to the range at lunch today, had a blast, but when I picked up brass I noticed a tiny dent midway up side of shell casing on about 2 out of 3 shells. I do not think this will impact reloading, but is this a defect of the gun, or is this a 1911 thing? (or a smith wesson thing?) The shell casings were pretty dirty but could be ammo I used (factory winchester 230 fmj). Any thoughts?
Btw, I managed to group about 5" at 45 feet. Only had time for 40 rounds. Jeez, what fun! Gun performed much better than I did.

techoca · 02-12-2010, 09:13 AM

Thats perfectly normal; just resize and reload. Even though your gun has the lowered and flaired ejection port, the cases will still get dinged sometimes. Don't let anyone convince you your gun is flawed because it is not, it is a 1911! Enjoy it.

I did notice from the photo that you had a Wilson mag in it.

Dirtypacman · 02-12-2010, 11:44 AM

I like your decision

Enjoy!

garydude · 02-12-2010, 01:13 PM

Thanks again techoca, I really appreciate your help. It's a little scary dropping 8 bills for a used gun at a pawn shop, but it looks like it worked out very well. I'm taking it out again on Wednesday with a former Marine and can't wait for him to try it, since he's shot LOTS of rounds in a 45.

02-05-2010, 02:18 PM	#1
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	slightly used or new? Please help Here's my dilema; I'm in the market for a 1911. I've shot several, including para big hawg, kimber and SA. I have $800 to spend on a 1911, and have narrowed search to two guns. I found a kimber custom II new for this price as well as a used smith wesson 1911 stainless. The smith clearly has more upgrades, and is a much more attractive gun, but I don't know much of their quality and feel, and importantly, reliability. Can you tell me which gun you would chose? The smith is in a pawn store, and I feel a little weird about buying from them; the kimber is in gun store. THANKS!! -->

02-05-2010, 03:43 PM	#2
Dirtypacman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Merrimac Valley, MA Posts: 908	Re: slightly used or new? Please help I have a SW 1911PD and its a great gun... that being said I want a Kimber myself (as they do not sell them in MA) So I would opt for the Kimber but maybe for the wrong reasons - as stated not on the approved roster in MA. __________________ Member HHRG and HSC, NRA Life Member, GOAL Member LTC-A

02-06-2010, 03:21 PM	#3
techoca V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 329	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Smith and Wesson makes a fine 1911; I carry one everyday. Attached Images __________________ techoca "The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range." Col. Jeff Cooper

02-07-2010, 11:46 AM	#5
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help smith wesson +2 kimber +1 Both appear to be exceptional firearms and I would like the fairy gunmother to drop another 800 in my lap so I could get both. I will run down to the stores and check them both again, as I didn't scrutinize trigger pull and feel as well as I ought to have. Thank you for your input, and if you have more please do share. I have two weeks before my forty fifth birthday, so I still have a little time.

02-07-2010, 02:55 PM	#6
mrkirker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 3,067	Re: slightly used or new? Please help I've a S&W 1911, purchased shortly after they were offered. I like the gun. It's always been a reliable firearm for me. My brother likes his Kimber. Really, it'd be tough to go wrong in your choices! What a wonderful delimma! What is the stigma about a pawn shop purchase vs. a gun store purchase? Would you feel the same if the potential purchase was from a private party? __________________ *I don't know if dogs have a heaven, but there will be dogs in mine.*

02-06-2010, 03:33 PM	#4
zb338 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Recently moved to Pennsylvania. Posts: 286	Re: slightly used or new? Please help I have the S&W stainless target model. It is an excellent gun in every way. If you don't trust the pawn shop then have a gunsmith friend or someone you know look at the gun. If you don't have someone like that then leave it go. Zeke

02-07-2010, 05:09 PM	#7
CampingJosh TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Indiana Contributor Posts: 4,788	Re: slightly used or new? Please help A pawn shop that sells guns has an FFL, so it's a gun shop, too. I wouldn't worry about that aspect. __________________ Nothing posted on TheFirearmsForum.com constitutes legal, accounting, gunsmithing, or other professional advice. Readers are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for real advice. Your life is lived at your own risk. Don't blame me for the dumb things you do.

02-09-2010, 02:14 PM	#8
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Well I'm leaning more towards the SW stainless. I researched the serial # through the good folks at SW, and they told me it is a 108284 sku model 1911 manufactured in Oct 2004. It has adjustable sights, ambidextrous safety, polished port and 8 round mag. Getting a bit nervous now, as I get closer to jumping. Still sound like a good deal?

02-09-2010, 03:37 PM	#9
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: slightly used or new? Please help The only advantage of a gun shop is that most either have a gunsmith on site or one they can send work to. IME, many (most?) pawnshops don't have that service. For practical purposes, there is no difference between new and slightly used since the first shot you fire will make the "new" gun "slightly used." You don't indicate the relative prices, but given anything like a comparable price, I would opt for the S&W. S&W has great customer service and that would make up for a gun shop having a gunsmith available. Jim

02-09-2010, 05:00 PM	#10
TheGunClinger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SW Florida Contributor Posts: 2,383	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Which one feels best in your hot sweaty hands? If the Smith actually is only slightly used and has more upgrades and looks better (to you) then wherin lies the problem? You have to remember that once you have been bitten by the 1911 bug, you will have to have more of them. As there are kabillions of them out there start saving your pennies for the next one. Cant have too many as I was told on this forum when I was contemplating getting my first 1911. I only have three so far but I am saving pennies for #4. __________________ New England Patriots Rule Next year.

02-09-2010, 05:08 PM	#11
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Good point Jim; hadn't thought of it that way. The new kimber is $800 out the door, whereas the smith is $850 out the door. Guys at smith and wesson said that gun lists for around $1400 new.

02-09-2010, 08:18 PM	#12
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: slightly used or new? Please help For all practical purposes, the same price, so I would go with the S&W. Jim

02-09-2010, 08:34 PM	#13
sweetokole V.I.P. Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 52	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Wow... tough call the suspense is killing me... can't wait to hear what the final decision turns out to be... and how the decision is made... should I tune in tomorrow? the Phantom knows... or is it the Shadow?

02-09-2010, 10:22 PM	#14
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Well I got called for jury duty tomorrow, so if I don't get picked, then I should be able to go get it then. I hope to get out of it by telling the judge something real clever, like "toss all commies in jail-there's one right there!" or some such nonsense so I can get on with the important things in life like getting my 1st 1911!!! You all have been very helpful and I do appreciate it. I'll let you know what I end up with, and hopefully will post some pics if I can figure it out!

02-10-2010, 04:54 PM	#15
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Drumroll Please... Here's my new addition! I went with the smith, took a risk because of the feel and fit and finish of the gun, and importantly because of the very good advice received here. My deepest thanks to all that contributed. I got the gun for 800 + tax, and the store threw in a box of ammo. It only came with the one original clip, so store dude gave me another clip that hopefully works with the gun. I plan on shopping at smith and wesson to get another magazine. Now can't wait to go out and try it, see if I can hit that elusive "side of a barn" with the thing, smiling the whole time! THANKS AGAIN, Gary Attached Images

02-10-2010, 07:42 PM	#16
TheGunClinger Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: SW Florida Contributor Posts: 2,383	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Nice piece, good choice! Now go get some Wilson Combat mags. __________________ New England Patriots Rule Next year.

02-11-2010, 07:17 PM	#18
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Thanks techoca and Thegunclinger, I do appreciate advice. Newb that I am, I did not know that one of the mags that came with it was a wilson combat, so I got lucky there, and just ordered another one from them (about $40). I went to the range at lunch today, had a blast, but when I picked up brass I noticed a tiny dent midway up side of shell casing on about 2 out of 3 shells. I do not think this will impact reloading, but is this a defect of the gun, or is this a 1911 thing? (or a smith wesson thing?) The shell casings were pretty dirty but could be ammo I used (factory winchester 230 fmj). Any thoughts? Btw, I managed to group about 5" at 45 feet. Only had time for 40 rounds. Jeez, what fun! Gun performed much better than I did. Attached Images Last edited by garydude; 02-11-2010 at 09:12 PM.. Reason: posting pic

02-12-2010, 09:13 AM	#19
techoca V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 329	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Thats perfectly normal; just resize and reload. Even though your gun has the lowered and flaired ejection port, the cases will still get dinged sometimes. Don't let anyone convince you your gun is flawed because it is not, it is a 1911! Enjoy it. I did notice from the photo that you had a Wilson mag in it. __________________ techoca "The purpose of the pistol is to stop a fight that somebody else has started, almost always at very short range." Col. Jeff Cooper

02-12-2010, 11:44 AM	#20
Dirtypacman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Merrimac Valley, MA Posts: 908	Re: slightly used or new? Please help I like your decision Enjoy! __________________ Member HHRG and HSC, NRA Life Member, GOAL Member LTC-A

02-12-2010, 01:13 PM	#21
garydude Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Desert Southwest Proper Contributor Posts: 745	Re: slightly used or new? Please help Thanks again techoca, I really appreciate your help. It's a little scary dropping 8 bills for a used gun at a pawn shop, but it looks like it worked out very well. I'm taking it out again on Wednesday with a former Marine and can't wait for him to try it, since he's shot LOTS of rounds in a 45.