Oddball British Bulldog

Buffalochip · 02-28-2010, 08:26 PM

OK--see if you can figure this one out. If you Google "British Bulldog" images, you won't find anything like this gun. The hammer spur has been removed--probably by the factory as it is perfectly done, it is a topbreak--VERY unusual for a Bulldog--most are gate loaders although the British Webleys that inspired development of the Bulldogs are topbreaks--or guns with "Self Extractors"--as this one is marked.

The gun is of typical Bulldog quality (average) but appears to have Birgmingham proof marks--two proofs on the bottom of the barrel and a proof for each cylinder chamber. Double action. There are no marks under the grips. The cylinder is marke .450, so I'm guessing .450 Adams? The barrel is marked ACIER or ACIEP-can't tell which.

Has anyone see one like this? Any ideas of origin?

RJay · 02-28-2010, 08:56 PM

With out seeing the proofmarks, and with use of the French word for steel, and from the pictures, it looks like one of the many Belgium " bulldog " copies.

Jim K · 02-28-2010, 09:18 PM

I have never seen anything quite like it. If it is Belgian, then it should show the "ELG" proof mark on the frame and cylinder. Another possibility is Spain, which had no effective proof law before the early 20th century and whose makers often counterfeited other nations' proof marks. It is too well made to be a "Darra" gun or something like that.

Closeups of the proof marks would help.

FWIW, It looks almost like the (American style) latch was from another gun and screwed onto this one. In fact, it has the look of a one-off experimental or model, made from parts of one or more existing guns.* The frame around the hammer (with that odd "dip") looks like it was machined into the frame after the frame was made rather than as part of a production frame, and the lower barrel lug has the look of a part welded on or altered.

*Which might account for proof marked parts but without the normal marks in the usual places.

Jim

RJay · 02-28-2010, 10:27 PM

I am no longer surprised at the Belgium guns from that era. They had some very fertile minds and very nimble fingers. BTW, unless it has all British proofmarks, I would be willing to bet it is not British.

02-28-2010, 08:26 PM	#1
Buffalochip Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 754	Oddball British Bulldog OK--see if you can figure this one out. If you Google "British Bulldog" images, you won't find anything like this gun. The hammer spur has been removed--probably by the factory as it is perfectly done, it is a topbreak--VERY unusual for a Bulldog--most are gate loaders although the British Webleys that inspired development of the Bulldogs are topbreaks--or guns with "Self Extractors"--as this one is marked. The gun is of typical Bulldog quality (average) but appears to have Birgmingham proof marks--two proofs on the bottom of the barrel and a proof for each cylinder chamber. Double action. There are no marks under the grips. The cylinder is marke .450, so I'm guessing .450 Adams? The barrel is marked ACIER or ACIEP-can't tell which. Has anyone see one like this? Any ideas of origin? Attached Images -->

02-28-2010, 08:56 PM	#2
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: Oddball British Bulldog With out seeing the proofmarks, and with use of the French word for steel, and from the pictures, it looks like one of the many Belgium " bulldog " copies. __________________ RonJames

02-28-2010, 09:18 PM	#3
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Oddball British Bulldog I have never seen anything quite like it. If it is Belgian, then it should show the "ELG" proof mark on the frame and cylinder. Another possibility is Spain, which had no effective proof law before the early 20th century and whose makers often counterfeited other nations' proof marks. It is too well made to be a "Darra" gun or something like that. Closeups of the proof marks would help. FWIW, It looks almost like the (American style) latch was from another gun and screwed onto this one. In fact, it has the look of a one-off experimental or model, made from parts of one or more existing guns.* The frame around the hammer (with that odd "dip") looks like it was machined into the frame after the frame was made rather than as part of a production frame, and the lower barrel lug has the look of a part welded on or altered. *Which might account for proof marked parts but without the normal marks in the usual places. Jim

02-28-2010, 10:27 PM	#4
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: Oddball British Bulldog I am no longer surprised at the Belgium guns from that era. They had some very fertile minds and very nimble fingers. BTW, unless it has all British proofmarks, I would be willing to bet it is not British. __________________ RonJames Last edited by RJay; 02-28-2010 at 10:29 PM..