National "guns in Parks" law

[armedandsafe]

There have been questions on when this will take place. This just in from NRAILA.

New Rule on Guns in Parks Takes Effect February 22

Tuesday, February 09, 2010

On February 22, a new law on guns in national parks takes effect. The new law repeals a National Park Service rule that has long prohibited Americans from possessing firearms in national parks for self-defense.

The Coburn amendment, passed last spring by an overwhelming bipartisan vote in the U.S. Senate, will allow people to possess, carry and transport firearms in national parks, in accordance with state law.

However, many details remain to be worked out. Reports indicate that National Park Service officials are debating issues such as the definition of “federal facilities,” where firearms will remain prohibited under a different federal law.

NPS officials are expected to issue further information as February 22 approaches, and some parks have already published information on their new policies. Because state laws vary greatly, before you visit a national park, you should check the park’s website or call the park headquarters for more information. NRA will also provide updates as they become available.

Pops

[pinecone70]

Good to know. I figured there were details that needed to be worked out.

[wpage]

This is great news.

[DebS]

"Because state laws vary greatly, before you visit a national park, you should check the park’s website or call the park headquarters for more information."

Why is this quote in the ILA's update? State laws do not apply in National Parks. As much as some State's would like them to, they don't.

[BETH]

that is just National Parks state parks are not included right?

[armedandsafe]

National Parks will follow the State's rules for it's own State Parks. If the State says no carry in their parks, that will hold for that portion of any National Park within that state.

Pops

[armedandsafe]

"Because state laws vary greatly, before you visit a national park, you should check the park’s website or call the park headquarters for more information."

Why is this quote in the ILA's update? State laws do not apply in National Parks. As much as some State's would like them to, they don't.

That is in the notice because the rules in the law as passed by Congress states that the rules for any National Park will be those rules of the State within which it is found. Thus, if you have a National Park which lies across two or more states, the parts of that park which are in any one State will have the same rules as that State has. So, you could be legal upon entering the National Park, and become illegal by hiking along a trail, if you cross into another State.

Now, I suppose you are going to ask why such a silly rule was passed by Congress.

Pops

[LurpyGeek]

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Now, I suppose you are going to ask why such a silly rule was passed by Congress.

If I asked that everytime I thought it... well, we wouldn't have time to talk about much else.

[carver]

Back in '99 the wife, and I, made a motorcycle tour of the Western U.S. We were camping so the parks, both State, and National, were the places where we stayed. I called each and every Park/State we planned to visit, and asked about carrying a hand gun in each. We were told by some that the gun could not be loaded, but most said to just come and have a good time. That's what we did! I carried at all times, and the gun was always loaded. Turned out that I never had a need to use it, thank God. No problems at all, and no one knew I had a gun. When we went to DC back in Sept. for the Tea Party march I had my BUG in my pocket at all times, and I never got busted for it. Mostly because I was pushing a wheel chair that one of my neighbors was in. Just walked right thru the metal detectors! Again, no one knew.

[Terry_P]

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

National Parks will follow the State's rules for it's own State Parks. If the State says no carry in their parks, that will hold for that portion of any National Park within that state.

Pops

I didn't read it that way. I thought it was the carry rules of the state not their state parks. If you have recriprocity in the state then you can carry in the National Park except for federal buildings????????????

[armedandsafe]

I don't have the text of the law to which to refer. However, all the reviews of the law which I remember say very specifically that you can carry "under the laws of the State." Everybody has, so far, interpreted that to mean that you have to obey the laws of the State in which you are located at any given time.

When and if I get a bit of time, over the next few days I'll dig a little deeper into this.

ETA: NRA just announced this. Note that they specifically state the the State laws are applicable.
http://www.fws.gov/news/NewsReleases...4F45440EDB35CE

Pops

[DebS]

Dam*it. North Carolina wins again. Kind of a pointless win for states that don't allow you to carry much of anywhere anyway. So frustrating.

Sign me,

[new308handloader]

Great News....Didn't the NRA lobby very hard to get this passed? So glad my membership dues went for fighting for such a great new freedom.

[petesusn]

Will wonders never cease.

Just read in the Fresno Bee (Fresno, Ca.) "In California, that means it is perfectly legal to carry an unloaded firearm as long as it's plainly visable, and for those with carry permits to tote them, loaded or unloaded."

[Terry_P]

I sent an e-mail to the NRA-ILA because there was an unanswered question in this thread. The question was if you have a carry permit recognized by the state a Park is in but the state has rules that forbid carrying in their state parks can you carry in the National Park and here is ILA's answer:

Thank you for contacting NRA-ILA. If the state that the park is in recognizes your permit, then you should be fine to carry in the park. Just be aware of any signs or postings. It is still somewhat unclear what is an what is not allowed in regards to this new law, but the state laws of the state where the park is located should apply to the park. Please let us know if you have further questions or concerns.

Best regards,
Miranda Bond
NRA-ILA Grassroots Division
www.nraila.org

Still somewhat muddy but I believe we can carry in the nat parks within their borders with a permit the state recoginizes.

[armedandsafe]

If you can carry in the State parks, you can carry in the National parks. The rules set forth by the State are the rules the Feds will be following for their parks.

Now, that said, there is the question where the State allows carry in some State parks and not in others. How does that effect the rules for the National parks? hmmmmm The general consensus is:

If the State declares specifically that carry is not allowed in Park X, Y and Z, then the State will have to specify that carry is not allowed in National Park A, B and C.

If the State declares specifically that carry is allowed in Park X, Y and Z, then the State will have to specify that carry is allowed in National Park A, B and C.

I think. Lots of speculation out there and, right now, nobody knows how it will shake out. The NPS (feds) will have to start posting some rules at entrances and in print/internet.

The thing to watch out for is entering a Park legally in one State, taking two steps left into another State, still in the Park, and becoming a criminal via those two steps.

Pops

[Terry_P]

We went over this before but I don't agree with your assumption that state park rules apply to the national parks within their borders. The national park is just another chunk of land in the state that is owned by someone else so I think if you have recriprosity with the state you can carry in the national parks regardless of whether you can carry in their state parks or not.

The point could be moot. How many states don't allow carry in their own state parks? You can carry in NH parks. Just curious if anyone knows or if not then what the rules are in your state?

[bcj1755]

Originally Posted by Terry_P

We went over this before but I don't agree with your assumption that state park rules apply to the national parks within their borders. The national park is just another chunk of land in the state that is owned by someone else so I think if you have recriprosity with the state you can carry in the national parks regardless of whether you can carry in their state parks or not.

The point could be moot. How many states don't allow carry in their own state parks? You can carry in NH parks. Just curious if anyone knows or if not then what the rules are in your state?

NC does not allow firearms in state parks. But since the National Parks are federal, it seems that we can now carry in NPs but still not in SPs. Maybe. At least, that's how it reads to me.

[armedandsafe]

OK, let's go back to the link I posted earlier. Apparently, because the link was found on the NRA page, it is hard to understand that the NATIONAL FWS news release is from the NATIONAL FWS.

Service Announces Firearms Rule Change for Possession in National Wildlife Refuges

News Releases Home Page

Search the News Releases
U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service Home




Contacts
Vanessa Kauffman
703-358-2138 703-358-2138
vanessa_kauffman@fws.gov


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service today announced that effective February 22, 2010, the rules governing possession of firearms on National Wildlife Refuges will change as a result of legislation enacted by Congress. After this date, the law allows an individual to lawfully possess a firearm within the boundaries of a National Wildlife Refuge in accordance with federal, state and local firearms laws.

As directed by this new law, the Service will look to the laws of the state and locality in which the refuge or refuge unit is located to govern possession of firearms on the refuge. Visitors will be allowed to possess firearms on National Wildlife Refuges provided they comply with applicable provisions of federal, state and local law. Persons with so-called firearm "carry" permits will be able to possess firearms on a refuge in accordance with the provisions of the state issued permit. The new law applies to all 551 units of the National Wildlife Refuge System, as well as the National Monuments and the 392 units of the National Park System.

While the law will change the application of rules regarding possession of firearms, it has no impact on the authorized uses of firearms on National Wildlife Refuges. The law does not allow visitors to fire or discharge the firearms in any way, brandish the weapon in the view of others, or any other use of the firearm. Enforcement of regulations concerning firearms use remains under the purview of the Department of the Interior.

While possession on a refuge may generally be allowed under state law, possession of firearms will remain prohibited in Federal facilities. Examples include: visitor centers, refuge administrative office buildings, refuge maintenance offices and workshops, field and backcountry offices, ranger stations and fee collection stations.

Refuge visitors wishing to possess firearms on any unit of the National Wildlife Refuge System should carefully read and understand the laws of the state in which the refuge they plan to visit is located -- as well as applicable local and county laws and ordinances that derive from that respective state's law. The laws of the states in which they reside, or from which they may have received firearms permits, do not apply when they are away from those states, although some states offer reciprocity and allow possession based on another state's permits.

Hunting, trapping and fishing are considered to be a legitimate, traditional recreational and wildlife management use of renewable natural resources on refuges. However, this new law does not change or expand hunting opportunities on national wildlife refuges or exempt hunters from state or federal hunting regulations.

Each person who hunts on a National Wildlife Refuge must have the required state license(s) required by the refuge, as well as any permits and/or user fees. The National Wildlife Refuge System Act of 1966, other laws and the Fish and Wildlife Service's policy permit hunting on a refuge when it is compatible with the purposes for which the refuge was established and acquired. For additional information, go to: http://www.fws.gov/refuges/hunting/.

The law does not differentiate between concealed handguns under state permit and long guns (rifles, shotguns, muzzleloaders) and it applies to all firearms, which are defined as a weapon designed to fire a projectile by the use of an explosive charge. All Federal firearms statutes remain unchanged.

Nearly 40 million people visit National Wildlife Refuges each year, generating almost $1.7 billion in sales for regional economies. In additional to wildlife observation, many refuges provide rich opportunities for hiking, canoeing, hunting and fishing. To learn more about visiting a National Wildlife Refuge go to: http://www.fws.gov/refuges/visitors/.

The mission of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is working with others to conserve, protect and enhance fish, wildlife, plants and their habitats for the continuing benefit of the American people. We are both a leader and trusted partner in fish and wildlife conservation, known for our scientific excellence, stewardship of lands and natural resources, dedicated professionals and commitment to public service. For more information on our work and the people who make it happen, visit www.fws.gov.

-FWS-

If you wish to carry in accordance with what you think the new rules say, without researching what the local, State and Federal regulations are for the Park you are visiting, good luck.

Pops