Confederate battle flag - Page 3 - The Firearms Forum

45nut · 08-10-2010, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunting Man

Really interesting to see the war has never ended between some here. The only thing that really matters is that the Union was preserved.

The Union may have been preserved, but at what cost? The price for the North's victory was the de facto abolishment of State's Rights for every State. The US ceased to be a Republic and dropped into Democracy, which our Founding Father's thought to be no better than a Monarchy.

Historian Shelby Foote recalled a story about a Southern captive being asked questions by his Yankee captors. When asked if he had any slaves he politely replied no. When pushed further about why he was fighting in the war, he replied "I'm fighting because you're down here"

In other words, the South was invaded by an intolerant North totally ignoring the fact that each state may act in it's best interest regarding activities within said state without other states or the Federal Gov't intervening, and in much the same way, the Liberals are forcing their PC BS down our throats today.

Health Care reform, cap and trade, carbon credits, green BS.... they might as well be an invading army. At least we would know how to defeat THAT army.

red14 · 08-10-2010, 08:56 PM

I believe they wanted Maryland and Kentucky to secede as well.

45, a well written description of my families reasons for fighting
in that conflict. It is all too familiar.

AL MOUNT · 08-11-2010, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Night Driver

I've been curious for a some time as to why, exactly, the Confederate battle flag had 13 stars on it.

The 12th star was for Missouri
The 13th was for Kentucky.

Deo Vindice (God will Defend US)

Al Mount
Past 2nd Lt. Commander
Sons of Confederate Veterans
Gen. Sterling Price Camp# 145
St. Louis, Mo.

red14 · 08-11-2010, 10:29 AM

Thanks Al, I couldn't remember if it was Kentucky or Maryland.
I was half right, as usual.

Palmetto · 08-12-2010, 08:00 AM

All this talk about how the Northerners loved the blacks and fought the war to free them was probably true for a few, mainly the church going folks. I think that the vast majority of Northerners didn't give a flip about blacks and were just as prejudice as anyone in the South. They sure didn't want their daughters to marry a black man.

Also, Slavery existed in the North prior to 1830, so how could these Northerners go to war over something that their fathers and grandfathers were doing and not feel like hypocrites?

I think that it was fought more over trade and states rights than slavery. Slavery was definitely an issue and did encourage those opposed, but it goes deeper than slavery. The war almost occurred during Andrew Jackson's presidency and at that time, both North and South had slavery. The winner rights the history, so it will probably always remain a war over slavery vs. other issues.

woobbie · 08-12-2010, 03:20 PM

If I remember my history correctly, the actual Confederate Battle Flag used two guns to form the "X" and not two diagonal stripes. I know that most people associate the well known diagonal stripe flag as the "Confederate Flag", but really it is not.

This country, on a large part, was built with money from the cotton and tobacco fileds, and we are still the main supplier of tobacco to the entire world, so to be disrespectful of this flag is the same as being disrespectful of everything the south contributed, and continues to contribute, that made and continues to make, this the greatest country the planet! Without tobacco and cotton (and the slaves required to keep such crops), this country may have very well failed and we would not be discussing this at all. So, regardless of what people may ignorantly think the flag symbolizes, it is as big of a part of this country and our precious heritage and culture as other US flags and as such, deserves just as much respect!

I am not from the South, but have always loved the idea of and been drawn to the South. Maybe it is the romantic idea of the old South's gentlemenly ways, maybe I lived there in a past life, who knows! I just don't see the Confederate Flag (either the true flag or the generally accepted verison) in any kind of bad light. I see it as a 100% American Flag. A flag that symbolizes a very dark time in the history of this country that we were lucky to recover from.

whirley · 08-13-2010, 01:03 PM

The extra two stars were for Kentucky and Missouri, neither State seceded.
Vanceburg, Kentucky has the most southern monument to the Union Army soldiers near the steps to the County courthouse. Lincoln signed the "Emancipation Proclamation" as a political expedient to keep England from sending troops to aid the Confederacy. Slavery was proven to be a very expensive waste of money and manpower. Slavery died a very quiet death about 1870 in Cuba, when steam engines became available to replace manpower. fter the war ended, landowners who survived the thieving carpetbaggers found it was cheaper to hire field hand when they were needed. They were not responsible for their care and upkeep, just ahd to pay them their wages when they worked. Some former slaves continued to live and work for their former "masters" as a matter of chioce, and as in most cases as with all of us, economic necessity.

Alpo · 08-13-2010, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whirley

The extra two stars were for Kentucky and Missouri, neither State seceded.
Vanceburg, Kentucky has the most southern monument to the Union Army soldiers near the steps to the County courthouse. Lincoln signed the "Emancipation Proclamation" as a political expedient to keep England from sending troops to aid the Confederacy. Slavery was proven to be a very expensive waste of money and manpower. Slavery died a very quiet death about 1870 in Cuba, when steam engines became available to replace manpower. fter the war ended, landowners who survived the thieving carpetbaggers found it was cheaper to hire field hand when they were needed. They were not responsible for their care and upkeep, just ahd to pay them their wages when they worked. Some former slaves continued to live and work for their former "masters" as a matter of chioce, and as in most cases as with all of us, economic necessity.

Not quite. Lynn Haven, Florida is quite a bit south of Kentucky. The town was started as a "retirement community" for GAR veterans.

http://cityoflynnhaven.com/history/memorial.htm

08-10-2010, 08:56 PM	#52
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,913	Re: Confederate battle flag I believe they wanted Maryland and Kentucky to secede as well. 45, a well written description of my families reasons for fighting in that conflict. It is all too familiar. __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.

08-11-2010, 10:29 AM	#54
red14 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: N FLA Posts: 3,913	Re: Confederate battle flag Thanks Al, I couldn't remember if it was Kentucky or Maryland. I was half right, as usual. __________________ I never argue, I state my opinion, and support my position.

08-12-2010, 08:00 AM	#55
Palmetto V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 188	Re: Confederate battle flag All this talk about how the Northerners loved the blacks and fought the war to free them was probably true for a few, mainly the church going folks. I think that the vast majority of Northerners didn't give a flip about blacks and were just as prejudice as anyone in the South. They sure didn't want their daughters to marry a black man. Also, Slavery existed in the North prior to 1830, so how could these Northerners go to war over something that their fathers and grandfathers were doing and not feel like hypocrites? I think that it was fought more over trade and states rights than slavery. Slavery was definitely an issue and did encourage those opposed, but it goes deeper than slavery. The war almost occurred during Andrew Jackson's presidency and at that time, both North and South had slavery. The winner rights the history, so it will probably always remain a war over slavery vs. other issues.

08-12-2010, 03:20 PM	#56
woobbie Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Communist California Posts: 9	Re: Confederate battle flag If I remember my history correctly, the actual Confederate Battle Flag used two guns to form the "X" and not two diagonal stripes. I know that most people associate the well known diagonal stripe flag as the "Confederate Flag", but really it is not. This country, on a large part, was built with money from the cotton and tobacco fileds, and we are still the main supplier of tobacco to the entire world, so to be disrespectful of this flag is the same as being disrespectful of everything the south contributed, and continues to contribute, that made and continues to make, this the greatest country the planet! Without tobacco and cotton (and the slaves required to keep such crops), this country may have very well failed and we would not be discussing this at all. So, regardless of what people may ignorantly think the flag symbolizes, it is as big of a part of this country and our precious heritage and culture as other US flags and as such, deserves just as much respect! I am not from the South, but have always loved the idea of and been drawn to the South. Maybe it is the romantic idea of the old South's gentlemenly ways, maybe I lived there in a past life, who knows! I just don't see the Confederate Flag (either the true flag or the generally accepted verison) in any kind of bad light. I see it as a 100% American Flag. A flag that symbolizes a very dark time in the history of this country that we were lucky to recover from. __________________ Live Free or Die! Where is the Birth Certificate? Kick out the liberal bums in November! Don't Tread On Me! "Respect My Authori-tah!"

08-13-2010, 01:03 PM	#57
whirley V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Contributor Posts: 457	Re: Confederate battle flag The extra two stars were for Kentucky and Missouri, neither State seceded. Vanceburg, Kentucky has the most southern monument to the Union Army soldiers near the steps to the County courthouse. Lincoln signed the "Emancipation Proclamation" as a political expedient to keep England from sending troops to aid the Confederacy. Slavery was proven to be a very expensive waste of money and manpower. Slavery died a very quiet death about 1870 in Cuba, when steam engines became available to replace manpower. fter the war ended, landowners who survived the thieving carpetbaggers found it was cheaper to hire field hand when they were needed. They were not responsible for their care and upkeep, just ahd to pay them their wages when they worked. Some former slaves continued to live and work for their former "masters" as a matter of chioce, and as in most cases as with all of us, economic necessity.